What are the borders of Nagorno-Karabakh?

[Hellektor]

Re: What are the N.K. borders?

so why is it that they have nakhitchevan and we cant get karabagh to be recognised by the world

Because of the Cult of Turk Phallus Worship, the majority of the “Christian” world being ardent adherents of for the last few centuries.

[arakeretzig]

Re: What are the borders of Nagorno-Karabakh?

It wouldn't hurt had Armenians liberated Nakhijevan and the northern half of Artsakh until Gandzak and River Kur. This way the problem with fake “Azerbaijan” would have been solved to a great degree... Well, Utik and Pytakaran would still need to be liberated which would completely cut off fake “Azerbaijan” from Iran and would force them to let go of the stolen name, the mother of the whole fraud.

Nakhichevan is garanteed by Russia and turkey, it would not have gone easily. But you can be sure, the fate of nakhichevan has not been seeled yet, it will be decided in a future war between turkey/azerbijan vs Armenia/russia which is inevitable.
As for north Arstakh that's all depends on wether the baboon will take try to take matters into their own hands.
Maybe this wont happen in our lifetime, but it will, history has a nasty way of repeating itself.

[levon]

Re: What are the borders of Nagorno-Karabakh?

Nakhichevan is garanteed by Russia and turkey, it would not have gone easily. But you can be sure, the fate of nakhichevan has not been seeled yet, it will be decided in a future war between turkey/azerbijan vs Armenia/russia which is inevitable.
As for north Arstakh that's all depends on wether the baboon will take try to take matters into their own hands.
Maybe this wont happen in our lifetime, but it will, history has a nasty way of repeating itself.

I don't think a war between Turkey/Azerbaijan and Armenia/Russia is inevitable.
Turkey hasn't much to gain from getting involved in a war with Russia, and as such it will never make a direct involvement in any conflict with Armenia so long as the region is in a psuedo-stable state. As for Azerbaijan, I'm certain that Aliev and his crew are much more interested in staying in power than liberating parts of Artsakh. Keeping the status quo is beneficial in that it affords Aliev the power to blame all current problems on the "unresolved conflict" and therefore postpone "indefinitely" anything that is not directly related to the "most important task" of liberating "occupied azeri lands".

This way they can continue on spending 2 billion dollars a year on military spending (some portion of which is guaranteed to be going into the pockets of top military and government officials) instead of focusing on more important issues such as creating an actual infrastructure that can reduce the dependence on oil exports.

The mere fact that every negotiation ends with the "uncompromising" position of the azeris, just shows, that "solving" the conflict is really not their top priority. Any sane diplomat realizes that land lost to war cannot be gotten back without "significant" compromise. Either the Azeri diplomats are extremely naive, or they know exactly what they are doing, and their actions are just a show for the domestic audience.

Furthermore, Aliev has been "promising" to "liberate" karabakh with "force" since he came to power. Informing the "enemy" of a possible attack will only put the other side into a more alert state; thus, making it less likely that the offending side will succeed. The only possible long-term strategy in this could be to slow down economic growth in Armenia by forcing her to spend more on military and less on infrastructure. However, if Aliev was seriously going down that route, he would have paid "much more" attention to strengthening sectors of the economy that don't have anything to do with oil/gas export, as that would actually put Azerbaijan at a definite advantage in the long run. However, from the general view of things, the Azeris are putting all their energy into exporting more oil and gas, which will eventually put Azerbaijan at a major disadvantage compared to Armenia when the land is completely "sucked" dry of resources.

The likely scenario would be that either after some more years of "fake promises" Aliev will get kicked out only to be replaced by another one full of "fake promises" who will continue on the same route as Aliev, or Aliev and crew will stay in power until the land is sucked dry of resources, then "jet" out of the country.

[Federate]

Re: What are the borders of Nagorno-Karabakh?

World community’s stance on Nagorno-Karabakh borders differs from ours, ARFD says

March 25, 2011 | 13:55

The OSCE Co-Chairs’ remarks about poor living conditions of residents of the territories surrounding Nagorno-Karabakh is a disgrace to the Armenian side, head of ARF Dashnaktsutyun said in parliament today.

Vahan Hovhannisyan stressed if the Armenian side had been engaged with settlement of the territories and creation of normal living conditions, the international community’s position would be different, whereas Baku’s statements would be less impudent. “International community’s notion on Nagorno-Karabakh’s borders differs from ours. They consider borders of Nagorno-Karabakh coincide with those of former Nagorno-Karabakh Autonomous Oblast (NKAO). For us it is the territory of former NKAO and surrounding regions,” he said.

Yesterday the OSCE Minsk Group Co-Chairs issued the Executive Summary of the report of Field Assessment Mission conducted in territories surrounding Nagorno-Karabakh.

http://news.am/eng/news/52745.html

[BakuDude]

Re: What are the borders of Nagorno-Karabakh?

When we speak of N.K./Artsakh are we talking about all the area under Armenian control? or the just the province? and when the rest of the world talks about it what do they mean?

100% Azərbaycan!!!!!

[arakeretzig]

Re: What are the borders of Nagorno-Karabakh?

100% Azərbaycan!!!!!

Why don't you go hang out with your buddies in pakistan defense forum? you're a waste of space in here.

[Mukuch]

Re: What are the borders of Nagorno-Karabakh?

100% Azərbaycan!!!!!

azerbaycan? what is that? is it kind of province of Iran? where it is?

[haysip]

Re: What are the borders of Nagorno-Karabakh?

i gotta say that this forum has a very bad security. non-Armenians come here and talk $hit about Armenia and nothing happens but if i go to a turkish forum, i will get kicked out just for my username

[Mukuch]

Re: What are the borders of Nagorno-Karabakh?

we are not turks, it is not about security, let them talk.... I still hope some one of them will say some thing productive some day... kicking them of is the easiest thing to do....

[Federate]

Re: What are the borders of Nagorno-Karabakh?

Armenia: Will Karabakh Become ‘Fatal Shore’ for Armenian Convicts?
January 17, 2012 - 11:15am, by Marianna Grigoryan

A prison sentence building on contested land? (Photo: Anahit Hayrapetyan)
Single-family homes in the village of Vank dot the landscape in Nagorno-Karabakh. The Armenian government is considering a new bill that would allow convicts who have committed minor crimes to resettle here instead of serving their sentences. (Photo: Anahit Hayrapetyan)

Armenia may start promoting an “Australian-style” model of development for the separatist territory of Nagorno-Karabakh.

Britain, of course, first colonized Australia in the late 1780s with ships loaded with prison convicts. The use of convict labor was seen by British officials as a cheaper alternative to slavery for creating the distant colony’s infrastructure.

Flashing forward to the present, lawmakers in Yerevan, the Armenian capital, are expected to begin debate in the near future on a bill that would give white-collar criminals the option of serving time in prison or resettling in “free territories,” a term that many Armenians believe refers mainly to Karabakh. The separatist territory broke free of Azerbaijan’s control, with Yerevan’s assistance, in the early 1990s. Efforts since then to reach a political settlement between Armenia and Azerbaijan have become stalemated.

Over the past two decades, demographic stagnation in Karabakh has posed a national security-challenge for Yerevan. As a result, officials, both in the territory and in Armenia proper, have supported a variety of schemes, including a mass wedding, to encourage population growth in and around Karabakh.

Pushkin Serobian, chair of the August 23 National Alliance," a non-governmental organization, was closely involved in the drafting of the bill. He expressed confidence the measure would receive serious consideration by parliament. He argued that allowing convicts to resettle in “free territories” would address several social problems at once – not only potentially bolstering Karabakh’s demographic profile, but also improving conditions in Armenian prisons, keeping families intact, and improving the odds that the convicts themselves would once again become productive members of society after competing their sentences. “I don’t think there will be any problem,” Serobian said, referring to the bill’s prospects for passage.

“By resettling people with their families in the free zones, we would prevent the final break-up of their families,” continued Serobian. “The families would consolidate, while resettlement in frontier areas would strengthen the border and its infrastructure.”

The bill indicates that only those convicted of non-violent crimes would be eligible for resettlement. Bakur Karapetian, a writer and advocate on behalf of Karabakh, estimated that 1,000 families could be resettled in “free territories” under the provision. He told journalists back in November during a news conference; “I’ve talked to many convicts, and all of them definitely agreed to settle and work in the areas the government considers appropriate for them.”

To some, such as political analyst Richard Giragosian, the proposed legislation is far from a panacea. He questioned the potential demographic benefits, saying that the measure does “nothing to create jobs or economic opportunity, which are essential for any increase in population.” More broadly, he contended that the bill, if enacted, could damage to Armenian national interests by creating an impression that Yerevan was intent on permanently possessing Azerbaijani lands adjacent to Karabakh that are currently under Armenian occupation.

“It could be perceived as a decision to officially “occupy” the Armenian-held areas, which until now, have not been officially resettled or developed,” Giragosian said.

The resettlement aspect of the bill, to a certain extent, is overshadowing the issue of prison overcrowding. According to the data of the Ministry of Justice, there are 12 penitentiaries and one alternative correctional institution in Armenia, housing over 4,500 prisoners. Most facilities are antiquated. Many also have high rates of suicide. In addition, many prisoners, upon release, fall back into a life of criminal activity.

“Correctional institutions need serious reforms,” said Arthur Sakunts, a rights activist and head of Helsinki Citizens' Assembly’s office in the city of Vanadzor. The bill has the potential to “change the situation” concerning prison overcrowding, Sakunts added. At the same time, it is in need of amending in order to more precisely define the meaning of “free territories.”

“The bill should refer to Armenia’s territories; there are many free territories here as well,” Sakunts said.

Hovhannes Sahakian, an MP and senior member of the governing Republican Party, echoed a need for amending the bill. “This is a good idea, but we should avoid territorial restrictions and propose an alternative to convicts,” Sahakian told Eurasianet.org. “This must be done to escape unnecessary speculations.”

http://www.eurasianet.org/node/64853