Announcement

Collapse

Forum Rules (Everyone Must Read!!!)

1] What you CAN NOT post.

You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this forum to post any material which is:
- abusive
- vulgar
- hateful
- harassing
- personal attacks
- obscene

You also may not:
- post images that are too large (max is 500*500px)
- post any copyrighted material unless the copyright is owned by you or cited properly.
- post in UPPER CASE, which is considered yelling
- post messages which insult the Armenians, Armenian culture, traditions, etc
- post racist or other intentionally insensitive material that insults or attacks another culture (including Turks)

The Ankap thread is excluded from the strict rules because that place is more relaxed and you can vent and engage in light insults and humor. Notice it's not a blank ticket, but just a place to vent. If you go into the Ankap thread, you enter at your own risk of being clowned on.
What you PROBABLY SHOULD NOT post...
Do not post information that you will regret putting out in public. This site comes up on Google, is cached, and all of that, so be aware of that as you post. Do not ask the staff to go through and delete things that you regret making available on the web for all to see because we will not do it. Think before you post!


2] Use descriptive subject lines & research your post. This means use the SEARCH.

This reduces the chances of double-posting and it also makes it easier for people to see what they do/don't want to read. Using the search function will identify existing threads on the topic so we do not have multiple threads on the same topic.

3] Keep the focus.

Each forum has a focus on a certain topic. Questions outside the scope of a certain forum will either be moved to the appropriate forum, closed, or simply be deleted. Please post your topic in the most appropriate forum. Users that keep doing this will be warned, then banned.

4] Behave as you would in a public location.

This forum is no different than a public place. Behave yourself and act like a decent human being (i.e. be respectful). If you're unable to do so, you're not welcome here and will be made to leave.

5] Respect the authority of moderators/admins.

Public discussions of moderator/admin actions are not allowed on the forum. It is also prohibited to protest moderator actions in titles, avatars, and signatures. If you don't like something that a moderator did, PM or email the moderator and try your best to resolve the problem or difference in private.

6] Promotion of sites or products is not permitted.

Advertisements are not allowed in this venue. No blatant advertising or solicitations of or for business is prohibited.
This includes, but not limited to, personal resumes and links to products or
services with which the poster is affiliated, whether or not a fee is charged
for the product or service. Spamming, in which a user posts the same message repeatedly, is also prohibited.

7] We retain the right to remove any posts and/or Members for any reason, without prior notice.


- PLEASE READ -

Members are welcome to read posts and though we encourage your active participation in the forum, it is not required. If you do participate by posting, however, we expect that on the whole you contribute something to the forum. This means that the bulk of your posts should not be in "fun" threads (e.g. Ankap, Keep & Kill, This or That, etc.). Further, while occasionally it is appropriate to simply voice your agreement or approval, not all of your posts should be of this variety: "LOL Member213!" "I agree."
If it is evident that a member is simply posting for the sake of posting, they will be removed.


8] These Rules & Guidelines may be amended at any time. (last update September 17, 2009)

If you believe an individual is repeatedly breaking the rules, please report to admin/moderator.
See more
See less

What are the borders of Nagorno-Karabakh?

Collapse
X
Collapse
 
  • Page of 23
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
Previous 1 6 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 23 template Next
  • #151
    Re: What are the borders of Nagorno-Karabakh?

    Originally posted by Icy View Post
    Here are some maps:

    We're not living in 55BC here. Part of the reason why Europe didn't take our propsed mandate seriously after the genocide was because we'd draw maps like this.

    Comment

    • #152
      Re: What are the borders of Nagorno-Karabakh?

      Originally posted by jgk3 View Post
      We're not living in 55BC here. Part of the reason why Europe didn't take our propsed mandate seriously after the genocide was because we'd draw maps like this.
      To be honest I don't think that was the reason. I think, most colonially-minded European powers were looking to take over gas/oil reach Arab countries (and they did), while Armenia had neither of those (although it is rich in other natural resources, but not as much relating to energy). This map is not that incorrect since it includes the so-called "6 Armenian villayets" or if you will Western Armenia (with Cilician Armenia and Armenia Minor). Caucasian Albania was for most part never part of Greater Armenia, although it was a dependency for sometime, so anything beyond Kur river is not ours, besides there are plenty of Caucasian peoples (Lezgins, Avars, Tats etc. Talysh inhabit parts of historic Armenian province of Paytakaran but they are also indigenous there) there who are related to the Caucasian Albanians. That is their land historically. Similarly, anything beyond Javakhk is also not Armenian, but belongs to Laz (who are in very good terms with Hamshen Armenians of Black Sea coast), Ajarans, Abkhaz and Georgians.

      Comment

      • #153
        Re: What are the borders of Nagorno-Karabakh?

        Originally posted by Catharsis View Post
        To be honest I don't think that was the reason. I think, most colonially-minded European powers were looking to take over gas/oil reach Arab countries (and they did), while Armenia had neither of those (although it is rich in other natural resources, but not as much relating to energy). This map is not that incorrect since it includes the so-called "6 Armenian villayets" or if you will Western Armenia (with Cilician Armenia and Armenia Minor). Caucasian Albania was for most part never part of Greater Armenia, although it was a dependency for sometime, so anything beyond Kur river is not ours, besides there are plenty of Caucasian peoples (Lezgins, Avars, Tats etc. Talysh inhabit parts of historic Armenian province of Paytakaran but they are also indigenous there) there who are related to the Caucasian Albanians. That is their land historically. Similarly, anything beyond Javakhk is also not Armenian, but belongs to Laz (who are in very good terms with Hamshen Armenians of Black Sea coast), Ajarans, Abkhaz and Georgians.
        Well, the most obnoxious aspect of the map was how far north it claims in Georgia (beyond Javakh), how it claims ALL of Azerbaijan, and how it outright claims a very long eastern strip of the Black Sea coastline, as though it was outright Armenian (though we'd have significant minorities there, remember, much of that area was multi-ethnic, and it was not often under Armenian hegemony throughout our history).

        Comment

        • #154
          Re: What are the borders of Nagorno-Karabakh?

          In Robert Fisk's book "The War for Civilization" he puts it at the attempts of the European powers (French and British Empire's) at the time to '"get Turkey on their side" for WW2 and gave away the Armenian territories as presents in hope that Turkey would join their side. This failed as Turkey only entered the war "a few days before Hitler committed suicide in his bunker".

          Comment

          • #155
            Re: What are the borders of Nagorno-Karabakh?

            Originally posted by jgk3 View Post
            Well, the most obnoxious aspect of the map was how far north it claims in Georgia (beyond Javakh), how it claims ALL of Azerbaijan, and how it outright claims a very long eastern strip of the Black Sea coastline, as though it was outright Armenian (though we'd have significant minorities there, remember, much of that area was multi-ethnic, and it was not often under Armenian hegemony throughout our history).
            Yes JGK3 I agree about Georgian territories and those of east of Kur river. They are not traditionally Armenian and have their own indigenous peoples there, although there has been a very strong Armenian presence in these territories from the antiquity with a significant input into both Caucasian Albania and Iberia. Black Sea coastline was part of Armenia Minor and Pontic Kingdom interchangeably, today it is predominantly populated by Hamshen Armenians (some more true to their Armenian roots than others), Laz and remnants of Pontic Greeks who were genocided along with Armenians between 1915-1923. Therefore arguably the coastline today is where you will find most of the remnants of Armenians who once thrived in all of the Armenian provinces of the Ottoman Empire. I believe, it was also taken into account as the Arbitrary Award of President Woodrow Wilson included a good deal of the Black Sea into the borders of Wilsonian Armenia.

            Comment

            • #156
              Re: What are the borders of Nagorno-Karabakh?

              Here's another nice map of Artsakh that we could all use, spread it around everyone!

              Azerbaboon: 9.000 Google hits and counting!

              Comment

              • #157
                Re: What are the borders of Nagorno-Karabakh?

                Very good map Federate, thank you.

                Comment

                • #158
                  Re: What are the borders of Nagorno-Karabakh?

                  Great map, thank you!
                  For the first time in more than 600 years, Armenia is free and independent, and we are therefore obligated
                  to place our national interests ahead of our personal gains or aspirations.



                  http://www.armenianhighland.com/main.html

                  Comment

                  • #159
                    Re: What are the borders of Nagorno-Karabakh?

                    No problem guys! I am glad you are interested. This should have never been an issue or should have been dealt with 20 years ago. Here's another one in Armenian.
                    -------------------------------------------------------------------------
                    Azerbaboon: 9.000 Google hits and counting!

                    Comment

                    • #160
                      Re: What are the borders of Nagorno-Karabakh?

                      Originally posted by Federate View Post
                      No problem guys! I am glad you are interested. This should have never been an issue or should have been dealt with 20 years ago. Here's another one in Armenian.
                      -------------------------------------------------------------------------
                      Thanks Federate. Constitution of the Artsakh Republic (AR) is clear about the state borders and Artsakh Armenians are correct to point out the violation of this very constitution through maps that do not reflect all of the provinces (Shahumyan, Berdzor, Hadrut etc.) of AR and instead give the 'NKAO' borders that have been modified several times (for example the so-called "Lachin corridor" was only artificially made in 1950s as more and more "NKAO" territory was chewed up) throughout the 20th century through serious of transfers from the "NKAO" to Azerbaijan.

                      1925 map of 'NKAO' still showing the direct connection with Armenia. The dotted red lines indicate Armenian territory of Karvachar and other parts of Berdzor that were already in 1923 handed over to "Azerbaijan" that were still marked as "Karabakh" - including to the north of NKAO - on Soviet maps (but outside of the administrative "Autonomous Province of Mountainous Karabakh").

                      Last edited by Catharsis; 11-28-2009, 10:27 PM.

                      Comment

                      Previous 1 6 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 23 template Next
                      Working...
                      X