Iranian-Armenian relations

[Persopolis]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

How selective of you.....Azeris didn't need Iran's help to get these fighters in, Pakis will do it today if they had the chance, plus Iran is against these Sunni fighters which consider Persian not true Muslims.
Any unofficial volunteers from Iran means nothing since we know Turks from Turkey and Azeris live in Iran.

You're exactly correct; and I would just add that it's in Armenia's interest not to provoke people on the Iranian side (rogue individuals) to suddenly volunteer for the Azerbaijan army.

Second point: Azerbaboon accused Iran of delivering arms to the Armenian side. (Interview with the Interior Minister of Azerbaijan, Ettelaat, 15 June 1992.)

Third point: Azerbaboon has publicly blamed Iran for Armenia's success in the NK war. They claim to have been taken off guard by what Iran told them and they were surprised by Armenia. I.e., Azerbaboon claims Iran lied to them so Armenia could gain an advantage in the war.

Fourth point: Armenia's leadership has openly stated that Armenia was able to survive during the bad years of the blockade on 3 borders because of Iran. It seems weird to attribute motives to Iran in trying to destroy Armenia against these sorts of facts, and against the subsequent boost Iran gave to Armenia's energy sector and economy. Serge said words to the effect that 'Iran is the path by which Armenia breathes' - another Armenian politician stated that Iran is the only regional player that's taken a sensible and fair approach, and hoped that Iran would always have a strong military presence in the region.

The Caucuses has long been the scene of rivalry between Russia, Turkey and Iran. Co-ordination between these three states may facilitate a long-term solution to issues in the Caucuses. However, I believe that Russia and Turkey are on a collision course in the next 50-100 years. In some ways, Russia is being negligent in not better courting Iran while Turkey is making more head-way there in terms of trade.

Prior to Russia arriving on the scene -- only one country has consistently protected Armenians and Armenia from extinction. It's not Canada, it's not Turkey; it's not Saudi Arabia; it's not Turkmenistan; it's not Georgia; it's not the USA, or Finland.

It's Iran.

There's a lot Armenians can do to shore up that relationship and bolster their chances of success.

My helpful tip for the day: Single Iranian-Armenian men should move back to Iran and marry an Iranian girl and strengthen the community there instead of fading away in the diaspora. If 3-5 thousand went back and had a couple of kids and built a new small town that could be the start of something new. Coordinate with the Iranian government and build a new village in Iran ('Little Yerevan'); do what you did in the times of the Silk Road. Just make sure the ones that do move back aren't of the type that want to set up Communist Groups, or stir up trouble. Mellow businessmen would really succeed: Set up joint Armenian/Iranian companies. In some ways, Armenia really needs the Iranian-Armenians to be in Iran to help bridge cultural differences - Iranian-Armenians have hundreds of years of history and expertise in this area and it's not doing Armenia any good if they're all assimilating in Glendale. Tap into that resources and bolster it.

Sunni fighters which consider Persian not true Muslims.

Some Sunnis do and some don't - but the Wahhabis (Saudis) definitely don't care for Iranian-Muslims. But it's true that Iranian-Muslims are different from other Muslims -- in one way in that they generally are harmonious with Christians -- and they give Armenian-Christians access to an otherwise hostile Muslim region and protect them from those elements.

Bernard Lewis:
"Iran was indeed Islamized, but it was not Arabized. Persians remained Persians. And after an interval of silence, Iran reemerged as a separate, different and distinctive element within Islam, eventually adding a new element even to Islam itself. Culturally, politically, and most remarkable of all even religiously, the Iranian contribution to this new Islamic civilization is of immense importance. The work of Iranians can be seen in every field of cultural endeavor, including Arabic poetry, to which poets of Iranian origin composing their poems in Arabic made a very significant contribution. In a sense, Iranian Islam is a second advent of Islam itself, a new Islam sometimes referred to as Islam-i Ajam. It was this Persian Islam, rather than the original Arab Islam, that was brought to new areas and new peoples." (B. Lewis, Encyclopędia Britannica.)

More than one author has noted that when Arabs tried to conquer Persia with Islam - Persia ended up conquering Islam.

the only reason the Afghans and Chechen's assisted the Azeris was because the Azeris had declared a jihad against Armenia.

How can Azerbaijan declare Jihad? ... they're too busy building synagogues and demolishing Christian and Muslim monuments.
Azerbaijan declaring Jihad is like Kemal Attaturk asking for 'Allah's blessing' - the Aliyev clan doesn't look like the type of people who would be comfortable around Hezbollah or Mujahadeen fighters.

[Mos]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

My helpful tip for the day: Single Iranian-Armenian men should move back to Iran and marry an Iranian girl and strengthen the community there instead of fading away in the diaspora.

How in the world is that helpful? Those Iranian-Armenians should marry Armenian women not Iranian, they should also be encouraged to move back to Armenia and strengthen the country. I'm sure also the Iranian women who married a Christian man would be accepted with open hands in Iran or among her family who has an adequate commitment to religion.

[Persopolis]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^
How could I have been so foolish to doubt your 4-part plan for Armenia's success?

Georgians are just backstabbing nation we shouldnt have any relations with them

empowering women is a very bad idea. If that happens in Armenia all hell will break loose.

Countries that seem like allies like Russia only do so in order to use us, in order to sell us at the highest price.

Why do you love Iranians so much?? Man, don't you understand they don't really give a xxxx about us, if they need to they'll use us or sell us at any given moment.

Uuum ... let's see: that leaves your allies Turkey, Azerbaijan, and Turkmenistan.

[Mos]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^
How could I have been so foolish to doubt your 4-part plan for Armenia's success?





Uuum ... let's see: that leaves your allies Turkey, Azerbaijan, and Turkmenistan.

Oh okay, so if Persian Armenian men don't marry Iranian women, Armenia is set to doom....

---

by the way, stop extracting out of context month or even year old quotes. Leave our success path to us Armenians.

[lampron]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

Fourth point: Armenia's leadership has openly stated that Armenia was able to survive during the bad years of the blockade on 3 borders because of Iran. It seems weird to attribute motives to Iran in trying to destroy Armenia against these sorts of facts, and against the subsequent boost Iran gave to Armenia's energy sector and economy. Serge said words to the effect that 'Iran is the path by which Armenia breathes' - another Armenian politician stated that Iran is the only regional player that's taken a sensible and fair approach, and hoped that Iran would always have a strong military presence in the region.

Single Iranian-Armenian men should move back to Iran and marry an Iranian girl and strengthen the community there instead of fading away in the diaspora. If 3-5 thousand went back and had a couple of kids and built a new small town that could be the start of something new. Coordinate with the Iranian government and build a new village in Iran ('Little Yerevan'); do what you did in the times of the Silk Road. - Iranian-Armenians have hundreds of years of history and expertise in this area and it's not doing Armenia any good if they're all assimilating in Glendale. Tap into that resources and bolster it.




More than one author has noted that when Arabs tried to conquer Persia with Islam - Persia ended up conquering Islam.


How can Azerbaijan declare Jihad? ... .

all valid points - yes Iranian Armenians (or even any Armenians) ending up in Glendale is a big loss

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

Some Sunnis do and some don't - but the Wahhabis (Saudis) definitely don't care for Iranian-Muslims. But it's true that Iranian-Muslims are different from other Muslims -- in one way in that they generally are harmonious with Christians -- and they give Armenian-Christians access to an otherwise hostile Muslim region and protect them from those elements.

Historically, the reverse was true. The earliest Arab (or, more correctly Syrian) Muslim regimes were always far more inclusive and less extremist. But the Christian population of Syria was huge so they had to be included and tolerated - in Persia, Christians were always just a small minority. In Sassanid Persia they were persecuted because they were seen as potential allies of the Byzantine empire (much in the same way as America persecuted Communists during the Cold War) but that ended after the fall of the Sassanids and Zoroastrianism.

More than one author has noted that when Arabs tried to conquer Persia with Islam - Persia ended up conquering Islam.

And Persia also established most of the more extreme aspects of Islam. Maybe the reason behind that extremism was that Persia, as a response to being invaded, wanted to be more Islamic than those that had conquered it. It was Shia Muslims from Persia that destroyed the Umayyad dynasty in Iraq and Syria.

[Persopolis]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

.... in Persia, Christians were always just a small minority. In Sassanid Persia they were persecuted because they were seen as potential allies of the Byzantine empire (much in the same way as America persecuted Communists during the Cold War) but that ended after the fall of the Sassanids and Zoroastrianism.

I actually don't have a lot of time this month to write about this - but I'll just make a few notes.

The whole Vartan Mamigonian is often misunderstood. Christians in Iran predate the Armenian conversion to Christianity (the Bible says that plainly: The earliest converts to Christianity listed in the Bible include Persians / Parthians). To understand the Sassanids' beef with "Armenian-Christians," you are correct: they ended up being "seen as potential allies of the Byzantine empire" - it had nothing to do with them converting to Christianity because Iran already had churches and Christians that lived in a problem-free environment long before Armenian-Christianity.

The entire conflict reads like nothing more than a feudal turf war between two Iranian tribes.

Chronology:

- Arsacid Dynasty or Arshakuni Dynasty of Persia based out of Khorason (NE Iran). These are Iranians.

- The same family establishes the Arsacid Dynasty or Arshakuni Dynasty of Armenia (If you check their family tree you will see the Mamigonians in there - I've actually looked into the Mamigonian family tree in detail.) These are also Iranians but are also "Armenians."

- The Sassanids are also Iranians. The Sasanids get into a feudal turf war with the Arshakunis. The Arshakunis attempt to forge alliances outside of the Persian Empire to resist the Sassanids, but the Sassanids want to break the Arshakunis influence in Armenia by having the country folk switch back to Zoroastrianism. (The beef is about political control b/w 2 Iranian tribes - not really a religious war.)

- Vartan gets killed in the fight (in modern-day Turkey). His brother fights against him with the Sassanids. The whole thing was basically an Intra-Iranian tribal conflict. (If you look at some of the turf wars in Afghanistan today between rival factions - it probably looked something like that.)

That's the very abridged version of the history.

Here's the ghetto way of starting the inquiry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arsacid_Dynasty_of_Armenia

And Persia also established most of the more extreme aspects of Islam. Maybe the reason behind that extremism was that Persia, as a response to being invaded, wanted to be more Islamic than those that had conquered it. It was Shia Muslims from Persia that destroyed the Umayyad dynasty in Iraq and Syria.

When someone threatens to take you over with a weapon - you take the weapon away from them, sharpen it, and use it against them. The Saudis today probably think it was the biggest damn-fool mistake to bring Islam to Iran because they lost control of a political weapon they otherwise would have had a monopoly over.

[edojan]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

Persopolis do u actually believe half the stuff you write? I swear man you are a typing comedy I enjoy reading what you write for pure entertainment value ... its quite funny keep it up!

[ninetoyadome]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

Ayatollah Ameli talks about how the azeris are responsible for what happened in khojaly
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Ayatollah Amelie events in Khojaly: For all of these were "Ergenekon" and "Mossad"
As reported by Iranian news agency Arannyuz "the other day a representative of Iranian spiritual leader, Imam Juma city of Ardabil, Ayatollah Seyed Hassan Ameli, made a sensational revelations about the events in Khojaly. He said that to curb the activities of Iran on the side of Azerbaijan in the Karabakh war, Israeli intelligence has established a Turkish organization Ergenekon. It was stated that the alleged pretext of aid to Azerbaijan in the Karabakh conflict, Iran is building a new organization, Hezbollah, and this process is an urgent need to stop.

Implementation of this mission was entrusted to the Turkish General Veli Kyuchyuk, Azerbaijani nationality, and for a short time there was a plan. Under the leadership of Kyuchyuk in Azerbaijan, a special organization for the preparation of a coup.

"Successful implementation of the coup were needed heavy losses at the front, it was necessary literally heavy tragedy. Under such conditions was staged Khojaly tragedy. I talked a lot about it in his sermons and charged me that I blame this people of Azerbaijan. But I was not referring to all the people and politicians of the traitors "- Amelie said, adding that this tragedy has left a stain on the reputation of the Azerbaijani people.

It is known that a few days after the Khojaly events Azerbaijani President Ayaz Mutalibov was overthrown. "Mutalibov was under the patronage of Russian. Russian had his ouster brought to power Elchibey? Clearly, what is not, and was a coup against the pro-Russian leadership. As they explained - it was a cunning plan to prevent activation of Iran on the Karabakh front, realized on the blood of innocent people. Behind all this stood Ergenekon, and in fact the Mossad "- said the imam.

Amelie also added that folder on crimes Ergenekon today revealed page after page, accompanied by revelations of traitors. However, the part concerning Azerbaijan, always hushed up. "Great Kyuchyuk and his Turkish and Azeri accomplices not being questioned in connection with the events in Khojaly. Azerbaijan is easily passed through a coup, and its members now occupy high positions in parliament and the president's office. Unpleasant situation, when the real organizers of the Khojaly tragedy pretend they are making every effort to present information about him to the world community. From such stolbeneesh "- outraged the imam.

The head of the Supreme Court of Iran Mousavi Ardebili during a visit to Azerbaijan under the mediation of the late Haji Alikram met with one of the leaders of the popular movement and offered close cooperation in various spheres, including the Karabakh issue. However, the offer of help was rejected, and Ardebili got the answer "I will come to Iran for the proclamation of Tabriz, the capital of Azerbaijan."

"The deceased Rovshan Javadov in a conversation with helping him Tabriz General mentioned an interesting nuance. He said that after the coup and the inauguration of President the first thing to meet him, and he thought that he had asked about the plan for the collection of Karabakh, but during the conversation the president pointed to some folder on the table and said: "We know everything about your collaboration with Iran (this folder was sent from Israel to Turkey and then in Azerbaijan). From today, you must cease all communication. We do not need Iran's help. If I find that Karabakh we will return with the help of Iran, I will give these lands to Armenians. Karabakh - not a serious problem and find its solution in the short term. We are at war with Iran and to prepare for war against him. Our real enemies are not Armenians, and Iranians, "- said the president.

After that, everything changed: to stop the cooperation, assistance has been rejected and were arrested by the Iranian military, who arrived at the invitation of the Azerbaijani side to cooperate in a joint headquarters. It was very strange that they were interrogated by investigators, who arrived from Turkey and Israel ", - said Amelie.

"Having felt the influence of Iran on the front, a group of politicians gathered and, giving the distance of the Turkish-Israeli affair, arranged Khodjalu events", - said the imam, and stressed that the Azerbaijani authorities to allow Israel to deploy a network of intelligence and open an embassy, as well as Israeli government officials openly declare that Azerbaijan has for them is the most convenient point for attack on Iran.

Panorama.am

http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=en&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=ru&tl=en&twu=1&u=http://voskanapat.info/news/ajatolla_ameli_o_sobytijakh_v_khodzhalu_za_vsem_ehtim_stojali_ehrgenekon_i_mossad/2011-05-12-1352&usg=ALkJrhj8PDyEJPQArmjpXuu7asf8CB0scA

[Lucin]

Re: Iranian-Armenian relations

Ayatollah Ameli talks about how the azeris are responsible for what happened in khojaly
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Ayatollah Amelie events in Khojaly: For all of these were "Ergenekon" and "Mossad"
As reported by Iranian news agency Arannyuz

Browsing through the above mentioned source I must say the so called news agency (Arannews.ir) is clearly anti-Armenian and pro-Azeri. "high rates of inflation in Armenia, poverty, violation of ceasefire by Armenians, killing of Muslim Azerbaijanis" are just some of them...