Long live the Russian Federation!

[SevSpitak]

Re: Long live the Russian Federation!

yes but world is a different place now, wars are becoming more and more outdated. That's why turkey joining the EU actually may be a good thing for us, as they will have to behave themselves no matter what.

Yes, and if Turkey joins the EU, they will also secure their borders. Then I'll tell you "forget Western Armenia for good" and I'll tell Kurds, "well, at least you got Iraqi Kurdistan." But I don't think Turkey will ever enter the EU. Instead, Turkey is investing in future plans, organizations, which they plan on leading. Turkey is not a settled economy. It's a growing economy, it's still a teenager, and it's choosing its path right now. Instead of thinking about [wishing for] Turkey's failure, how about we give credit to Turkey and look at their achievements over their failures for once? I personally don't think Turkey needs the EU.

Turkic union is an option. Of course, Russia won't let the Turkic union happen. The CIS has most of the Turkic states anyway (and it doesn't look like that's gonna change anytime soon). It's a plan that's doomed to fail today, but invest now, give it about half a century, and you will begin to see fruits if you're unlucky (a forest if you're lucky). Then there's neo-Ottomanism. Now, all this seems like it's wishful thinking on the part of Turkey, but we must consider them nevertheless, along with their more realistic goals, and plan ahead accordingly.

First, I don't think the idea of a Turkish invasion is outdated. Forced/encouraged assimilation is the best weapon Turkey and Azerbaijan have against Armenians: make sure Armenia doesn't develop economically, encourage its population to leave. Give them no hope. Assimilation elsewhere will happen one day or another. Steer the river to let them eliminate themselves. This is part of the war, too. (Of course, this hasn't proven too good for Turks so far, since we have developed the 3rd largest lobby in the USA as a result of this policy, counterbalancing the damage caused by the loss of assimilated/intermingled Armenians).

I also don't think wars are outdated. They are just more sugar-coated with "politics." Or you can put it this way: wars are no longer fought exclusively on the field like they used to: economy and information are also battlefields today, and that is the war Azerbaijan is fighting against us today, and we're not doing so good. Traditional wars are also happening all over the world, right under our noses, and no one knows xxxx, or are misled to concentrate on other "major news" things while it's going on. The Nagonoro-Karabakh war was extremely violent, massive, and it could have led to a much bigger war if super powers got involved (some even extend it to a cause of WWIII) -- and this threat is not gone until the conflict is settled (in fact, if the NK war resumes, it will be more catastrophic on the international scale than it was 20 years ago in my opinion). But ask an American if they've heard of Nagorno-Karabakh. 95% will probably answer, "no." The whole world knows Lady Gaga though.

Wars are not dead. Iraq was not the last war. There have, and will be others to follow it (we saw rising tensions between USA and Iran recently). WWIII could happen in the 21st century. Pretending it's impossible and acting accordingly is futile. If an event like WWIII happens (the worst case scenario), and Turkey (+Azerbaijan) managed to reach the direction that they want to by that time (whether it be Turkic union, neo-Ottomanism, EU, etc), what does Armenia do? Which side does Armenia take? If it takes no sides, stays unprotected, then believe me, an invasion by Turkey is very likely, and Karabakh will be their sugar-coating casus belli for their true intentions (if enmity between us has continued till then).

So what do we do? Russia is not exactly what I wish it was, but Russia has proven to be loyal to Armenia more than any other state so far. Although I'm tempted to welcome Iranian support, I don't like siding with USA's current "enemy." I have no solid opinion on EU -- France betrayed Armenia during/around the time of WWI (although, today it shows itself as supporting Armenians to a certain extent), Germany is closer to Turkey, UK has $deals$ with Azerbaijan, the rest of Europe is neutral at best. No, a state that recognized the Armenian Genocide will not "definitely" side with Armenia on other issues (i.e.: "WWIII"). USA is on Turkey's side for now. Yup. I'm going to have to agree: Long live the Russian Federation!

Then again, there's China

[Mos]

Re: Long live the Russian Federation!

EU in general is a positive influence for the greater influence, it subdues Turkey, promotes democratic change and reduction of oligarchs (which are a very big problem for Armenia and need to be dealt with!!). I must say all these oligarchs care is their money, they would sell Armenia if it meant gaining more profit. Disgusting people and leftovers of the Soviet Union, hopefully one day we can rid our country of these bastards.

[lampron]

Re: Long live the Russian Federation!

My understanding is that Turkish aircraft are allowed to fly over Armenia as part of a reciprocal agreement.

in case it was that hard to understand, I was referring to UNAUTHORIZED MILITARY overflights, the type that has been going on for years over Greek islands close to Turkey

The days of potential Turkish aggression against us are over. not because they like us or something, but because they are trying to get into the EU and gain more legitimacy with the international community.

it is true that if Turkey ever joins the EU it may become less aggressive. In general Turkey joining (or aspiring to join) the EU means that they have to improve their human rights, so this is positive. The same can be said of Armenia. Armenia's oligarchs need to be controlled and EU rules are bound to restrict their freedom to violate the law. As we know liberal Russians also want their country modernized to make sure the law applies equally to everyone.

[Mos]

Re: Long live the Russian Federation!

Every Russian I've ever met knew very well who Armenians were and were very friendly towards Armenia. You've got racists everywhere and Russia is not an exception. The point is like Tigranakert has said that Armenians are treated like xxxx when they are in the West and almost no one knows who Armenians are and very few care.

Obviously any post-Soviet person will know Armenians. We were in the same country for 100 years!!! Plus you go to countries with a sizable Armenian diaspora (France) and many will know what Armenia is.

I would argue Armenians are treated better in Europe than in Russia. I know many Armenians who been physically abused and killed by Russian skinheads, and some of the discrimination is blatantly racist. I actually have relatives living in Russia who've been targeted many times. I too fear ever stepping foot in Russia as I don't want to be targeted by skin heads, as I look like someone from the Caucasus or even middle east.

Do you actually believe this BS. The Eu stood by and looked how they took over half of Cyprus and are still doing nothing, even with Cyprus being a member. Now look at Armenia not a member, tell me how much would they care if Turkey attacked Armenia? No one there would give a damn about Armenia.

EU back then was a much, much weaker power and influence there was little it could do. However, in the present day, at least EU has the balls to criticize Turkey for its human rights, genocide denial, etc. Russia has been getting cozy with Turkey on the other hand, and with their sub-par human rights history and interest in solid relations with Turkey I doubt they will criticize Turkey like that.

[Mos]

Re: Long live the Russian Federation!

You think a EU member country can just attack when they feel like? Rules are different when you're part of the EU, and Turkey won't risk their partnership (or membership) in the EU just to attack Armenia. In the early 90s of course Russia was the big deterrent for Turkey not joining.

[Tigranakert]

Re: Long live the Russian Federation!

So in order to be an Armenian you have to be pro-Dashnak? Where did you get that BS from? There are plenty of patriotic Armenians that don't agree with the politics of the Dashnaks, many in Armenia. Second, I'm not a racist against Iranians, and I really don't know where you got that from. I have many Iranian friends, and actually some of my closest friends are Iranian, and I find our partnership with them very valuable. I only disagree when people say Armenians and Iranians are "brothers" which is not accurate. And yes I don't like the Iranian hooligans who conduct drug trade in Armenia or steal our women and force them to convert to Islam. This doesn't mean I'm "racist" against Iranians, so please chose your words carefully.

Third, I never said anything about the "goodness" of the Turks, I said that's it's unrealistic that they will consider attacking us by force given the circumstances, especially if they are in the EU. You really think Turkey would want to risk WW3 with Russia just to attack us? They may be dumb, but they are not that dumb.

You made one good point.

You really think Turkey would want to risk WW3 with Russia just to attack us?

No, because of the Russian Federation they won't, whether Turkey is in the European Union or not.

[KarotheGreat]

Re: Long live the Russian Federation!

Russia is a military ally and most of Armenia's weapons come from Russia. I don't see NATO members offering weapons to Armenia. Armenia must deepen her ties with the EU, US as well as Iran, Arab states, India etc, but while NATO is on the side of Armenia's opponents, the current policy is the only one available.

As we know most ordinary Russians and Ukrainians don't know the difference between Armenian, Georgian, Abkhaz, 'Azerbaijani', Chechen, Daghestani, even Turkish,Kazakh, Uzbek, Kirghiz, Tatar etc. So Armenians can suffer racial harassment. That is very unpleasant for Armenians. But Russia will remain an ally as long as Turkey and Azerbaijan remain threats. If in 25-30 years these threats disappear, then it's a different matter. I don't want Turkish aircraft over Armenia's skies in exchange for empty promises from the EU!

Every Russian I've ever met knew very well who Armenians were and were very friendly towards Armenia. You've got racists everywhere and Russia is not an exception. The point is like Tigranakert has said that Armenians are treated like xxxx when they are in the West and almost no one knows who Armenians are and very few care.

yes but world is a different place now, wars are becoming more and more outdated. That's why turkey joining the EU actually may be a good thing for us, as they will have to behave themselves no matter what.

Do you actually believe this BS. The Eu stood by and looked how they took over half of Cyprus and are still doing nothing, even with Cyprus being a member. Now look at Armenia not a member, tell me how much would they care if Turkey attacked Armenia? No one there would give a damn about Armenia.

[Mos]

Re: Long live the Russian Federation!

You are one scary person. It's a shame you call yourself an Armenian. How can an Armenian state he is anti-Dashnak, be a fierce racist against Iranians (who are important allies) but believe in the ''goodness'' of Turks, ''as the days of aggression of these angels are over, and the islamic Erdogan wants to join the EU to have ''peace in the world'' and give hugs and kisses to everyone''.

Joining or not joingen the EU, the world is ruled by evil and the EU itself is one big source of injustice.

So in order to be an Armenian you have to be pro-Dashnak? Where did you get that BS from? There are plenty of patriotic Armenians that don't agree with the politics of the Dashnaks, many in Armenia. Second, I'm not a racist against Iranians, and I really don't know where you got that from. I have many Iranian friends, and actually some of my closest friends are Iranian, and I find our partnership with them very valuable. I only disagree when people say Armenians and Iranians are "brothers" which is not accurate. And yes I don't like the Iranian hooligans who conduct drug trade in Armenia or steal our women and force them to convert to Islam. This doesn't mean I'm "racist" against Iranians, so please chose your words carefully.

Third, I never said anything about the "goodness" of the Turks, I said that's it's unrealistic that they will consider attacking us by force given the circumstances, especially if they are in the EU. You really think Turkey would want to risk WW3 with Russia just to attack us? They may be dumb, but they are not that dumb.

[Tigranakert]

Re: Long live the Russian Federation!

The days of potential Turkish aggression against us are over. not because they like us or something, but because they are trying to get into the EU and gain more legitimacy with the international community.

yes but world is a different place now, wars are becoming more and more outdated. That's why turkey joining the EU actually may be a good thing for us, as they will have to behave themselves no matter what.

You are one scary person. It's a shame you call yourself an Armenian. How can an Armenian state he is anti-Dashnak, be a fierce racist against Iranians (who are important allies) but believe in the ''goodness'' of Turks, ''as the days of aggression of these angels are over, and the islamic Erdogan wants to join the EU to have ''peace in the world'' and give hugs and kisses to everyone''.

Joining or not joingen the EU, the world is ruled by evil and the EU itself is one big source of injustice.

[Tigranakert]

Re: Long live the Russian Federation!

Russia is a military ally and most of Armenia's weapons come from Russia. I don't see NATO members offering weapons to Armenia. Armenia must deepen her ties with the EU, US as well as Iran, Arab states, India etc, but while NATO is on the side of Armenia's opponents, the current policy is the only one available.

As we know most ordinary Russians and Ukrainians don't know the difference between Armenian, Georgian, Abkhaz, 'Azerbaijani', Chechen, Daghestani, even Turkish,Kazakh, Uzbek, Kirghiz, Tatar etc. So Armenians can suffer racial harassment. That is very unpleasant for Armenians. But Russia will remain an ally as long as Turkey and Azerbaijan remain threats. If in 25-30 years these threats disappear, then it's a different matter. I don't want Turkish aircraft over Armenia's skies in exchange for empty promises from the EU!

This is why Armenia must be ruled by a strong force. Why do people make so many stupid idiotic statements, it is in your blood to be biased towards Russians?

Russians seeing no difference between Armenians and Chechens? One thing I can tell you, I have lived a long time in my life in The Netherlands and I can easily state I have faced more racism during my stay in The Netherlands than when I was in Russia.

''Intellectuel'' Dutch people do not know a single thing about Armenians, they see us as Turks and prevent foreigners into getting high ranks in businesses, whereas Russians damn well know who Armenians are and where we come from. It is much easier to get well-paid and high-ranking jobs in Russia as they do not look at your ethnicity (and ofcourse a lot of businesses are owned by non-ethnic Russians).

When, when can you people stop being biased about Russians? I think you have watched to much media. I will suggest you to think for once.