Are Iranian-Armenians Iranian? What is Armenian Assimilation?

[Persopolis]

Re: Are Iranian-Armenians Iranian? What is Armenian Assimilation?

I love the fact that you keep editing your posts instead of posting new ones.

The answer as to why is noted in the quote of another member of this thread (below). My responses to any comments worth responding to will be at POSTS #1; and #15 through #18 and individuals that write off-point comments or repeat themselves generally will not get a response. (And if you have written a lot without reading the sources - or simply have repeated yourself; you won't get a response.) Wait about 20 minutes after the post to see the full version - thanks.

Reason for placement of posts.
V

Database Errors................................

[KarotheGreat]

Re: Are Iranian-Armenians Iranian? What is Armenian Assimilation?

I had a hard-time understanding where the denial of the obvious stems from; then I dug deeper. I am not sure what I can say about child-rearing and societal attitudes that produces these kinds of results.

THE QUESTION I POSED:

The real question for me is where does the denial of identity come from? Stated differently: What was the catalyst for the political manipulation of beliefs about family ancestry, parentage, cultural origin, nationality, and tribal affiliation? Is it from the establishment differing religions?

THE ANSWER AS TO THE LOSS OF CONTACT WITH REALITY IS OBVIOUS:

* “[M]y parents would always tell me that we were Armenians—that we were nothing like Iranians. And then when we got back to our homeland, we were suddenly called Iranian. It was a big blow," she says.”

* "I had a customer with whom I worked for two years who said I spoke good Armenian for an Iranian. I said my name is Sevak, like Paruir Sevak's name, and asked how he could think I was an Iranian. Once, during the Nowruz period, someone came and congratulated me on the occasion. It was embarrassing for me, because it is very insulting for us," says Hovhannisian.

* ‘Having lived under a totally different system, we found ourselves in another reality, an alien and often unacceptable one," recalls Eduard Hakhverdian, now 58, [an Iranian-Armenian who moved to Armenia].”

* “ Armine Darsbidian, remembers that she had her first bitter experience in Armenia while attending a parents' meeting at school during which one of the parents said: ‘Take money from the Persian. She has come from the country of the Shah; she's rich.’ ”

* “The proud [Iranian-Armenian] repatriates were looked upon with suspicion by Soviet authorities and with a degree of contempt by the Armenians.”

* "Everything was strange for me. The language seemed to be the same, but was odd because so many Russian words were mixed in….”

http://www.agbu.org/publications/article.asp?A_ID=656

* “Iranian-Armenians – say they are encountering difficulty in gaining acceptance in Yerevan.”

* “[T]he old ‘inferiority complex’ among locals that diaspora Armenians are “better educated and wealthier” still lingers.”

* “A professor once pointed her out to classmates as a representative of Muslim countries such as Iran, she said. ‘I was so hurt that I took out my cross and showed it to him.’ ”

* “Many Iranian Armenians say that, with time, they have learned to take their image as “foreigners” [in Armenia] in stride, but caution that much work remains to be done to encourage acceptance of diaspora Armenians resident in Armenia.”

http://www.eurasianet.org/node/62178

Last edited by Persopolis; Today at 05:23 PM.
I love the fact that you keep editing your posts instead of posting new ones.

And what do you want to prove with this article? Is there a reason why posted this?

[Eddo211]

Re: Are Iranian-Armenians Iranian? What is Armenian Assimilation?

Chi begam? Agar, mamanet tanesh-o foorookht, shabieh ye nafar digeh hasti. Agar Armani hasti, shabieh Irooni hasti. Az mamanet porsesh kone: "Maman, 'tokhmeh sag' o gozoshti to dahanet?" Javab to koon-e mamanet peyda mikoni.

Internet tough guy hey? You are not Persian Persoopolis, you are not even in Iran. Aberoot raft badbaght.

[KarotheGreat]

Re: Are Iranian-Armenians Iranian? What is Armenian Assimilation?

[QUOTE=Persopolis;312877]W

Do you even understand what you have posted? The source is a blog, the source tells nothing about the people that they have interrogated about the subject; the number of people they have used but from the looks of it it's 20. So you are basing everything on the opinion on a very bad research posted on a blog.

Well you don't like what anthropologists say. According to you, "he's one man just giving his opinion," and you're not?

Where did I say that it seems you like pulling things out of your ass. Now give me the book that the anthropologist makes his statement in, or the paper that he has written?
V

It is from the Caucasus Research Resource Centers, titled: "SOCIAL SCIENCE SNAPSHOTS, REMARKS, OBSERVATIONS, DATA FROM THE SOUTH CAUCASUS." Entire libraries are published online these days - including studies. But I am sure you knew that.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:Fexw7fFeQSYJ:crrc-caucasus.blogspot.com/2010/10/forbidden-love-attitudes-toward.html+russian+armenian+intermarriage&cd=9&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&source=www.google.com

The funny thing is that you can not find any real studies done on this subject you just post the first thing that comes up when you type in Armenian Russian intermarriage. You know the research has been done on 20 people right? 20 out of 3 million.

When a nation of 3 million people has a minister assigned to monitor "threat of assimilation" and notes an "extensive number of mixed marriages" - I would suggest that you are telling yourself fairy tales.

RA Deputy Diaspora Minister Stepan Petrosyan stated: Latin America’s Armenian community is under the threat of assimilation. With extensive number of mixed marriages, 70% of Armenians are not involved in the life of local community.

http://www.panarmenian.net/eng/socie...f_assimilation

Do you even read what you post? He's talking about Armenians living outside of Armenia but you are babeling on and on in this thread about the dangers inside Armenia.

Yes, yes, yes ... you're starting to understand. Armenia decided to become a Soviet Republic, and as a result there are "Armenians" in Armenia that are only partially or not at all Armenian from the intermixing of a tiny population with other people from the Soviet Republics. Focus on how you suggested that people take on the "Armenian Identity" and that is supposedly the opposite of Assimilation -- it will take you a while to see the irony.

Now give me the scientific(I know that word is very difficult for you to understand) proof that Armenians intermarried with different people from other Soviet Republics on mass. You know what Armenian assimilation is?
It is the fact that Armenians lose their culture that has nothing to do with blood, only with culture.

Read about intermarriage with Persians in post #1 and #15 and remember that started in antiquity proximate to the the time when "Armenians" started calling themselves "Armenians."

Now start with posting that the general population intermarried with each other, because the Persian heartlands are much closer to Persopolis than they are to Armenia, in antiquity the Iranian people living close to the Armenian border were the Medes not the Persians. Or are you also going to say that the Medes are also Persians? You keep forgetting the fact that the Persians of today intermarried with people that the Armenians had no extensive contact with even in the high days of the Persian empire or are you going to deny that?

[Mos]

Re: Are Iranian-Armenians Iranian? What is Armenian Assimilation?

persopolis for your information... in the 1600s, shah habas of iran exiled about a million Armenians to iran in order to have the Armenians teach the iranians morals, culture and many other things. He gave everything to the Armenians so they would live in a good life. But those Armenians wanted to go back to Armenia, were our church is. Sha habas didnt want it so he sent soldiers to bring the church of Echmiatsin to iran. when the Armenians found out about it, they sent a massage to the Armenians of Echmiatsin to make a picture of shahabas on the church(which still exists today). the iranians went to bring the church and saw the picture of their shaw on it so they didnt touch the church. Then the Armenians of Iran thought of ways to survive into those foreign lands. One of the ways was NOT to assimilate into the iranian society. and the way they did it was not to learn persian. The Armenian women never went to school in iran and barely went outside. Many other methods were created in order to survive the society. This is one of the very rare cases(if not the only) were a small group of people survived assimilation for more than 400 years(which is more than 1000 generations). Because of our morals and high traditions, Armenians were highly respected in the iranian society(higher than the iranians themselves). THIS IS THE REASON WHY MANY IRANIANS HAVE "IAN" ADDED TO THEIR LAST NAMES, Because if you have an "ian" in the end of your last name, you are also seen as a person of morals, so you are treated highly. This might be the reason why persopolis wants Armenians to be iranian so badly, because we are treated higher than he is

Good post.

[haysip]

Re: Are Iranian-Armenians Iranian? What is Armenian Assimilation?

persopolis for your information... in the 1600s, shah habas of iran exiled about a million Armenians to iran in order to have the Armenians teach the iranians morals, culture and many other things. He gave everything to the Armenians so they would live in a good life. But those Armenians wanted to go back to Armenia, were our church is. Sha habas didnt want it so he sent soldiers to bring the church of Echmiatsin to iran. when the Armenians found out about it, they sent a massage to the Armenians of Echmiatsin to make a picture of shahabas on the church(which still exists today). the iranians went to bring the church and saw the picture of their shaw on it so they didnt touch the church. Then the Armenians of Iran thought of ways to survive into those foreign lands. One of the ways was NOT to assimilate into the iranian society. and the way they did it was not to learn persian. The Armenian women never went to school in iran and barely went outside. Many other methods were created in order to survive the society. This is one of the very rare cases(if not the only) were a small group of people survived assimilation for more than 400 years(which is more than 1000 generations). Because of our morals and high traditions, Armenians were highly respected in the iranian society(higher than the iranians themselves). THIS IS THE REASON WHY MANY IRANIANS HAVE "IAN" ADDED TO THEIR LAST NAMES, Because if you have an "ian" in the end of your last name, you are also seen as a person of morals, so you are treated highly. This might be the reason why persopolis wants Armenians to be iranian so badly, because we are treated higher than he is

[haysip]

Re: Are Iranian-Armenians Iranian? What is Armenian Assimilation?

No, Armenians living in Iran are not ethnic Persian or any other Iranic group. I am speaking of the majority here, not the few exceptions that have come about via mixed marriages.

+1

my family tree that goes back to 400 years when my grandparents were exiled to iran and it does NOT have a single iranian in it. I can also say this to the 100s of family trees that i have seen, and not a single one of them contains an iranian in it.

[Mos]

Re: Are Iranian-Armenians Iranian? What is Armenian Assimilation?

As I have said over and over, people must see Persopolis's intentions as an Iranian nationalist to subject Armenians, our culture, and history under the "Greater Iran" label.

[Mos]

Re: Are Iranian-Armenians Iranian? What is Armenian Assimilation?

and where do you see 'Iranian' in that graph?....

As I said, people must understand Persopolis's intentions as an Iranian nationalist to subject Armenians and our culture under the "Greater Iran" label.

[Persopolis]

Re: Are Iranian-Armenians Iranian? What is Armenian Assimilation?

So if Armenians are Iranian, is it also correct to say that Iranians are Armenoids?

It's a 2 way street - genes flow both ways.