Pr. Sargsyan declares amnesty for Political Prisoners

[Tigranakert]

Re: Pr. Sargsyan declares amnesty for Political Prisoners

Well, I happy not because EU is happy with us or any other power, but because there is some civil dialogue within our country. I'm happy that Armenia is not like Azerbaijan where saying one thing against Aliyev lands you in jail.

I am happy that it isn't like Azerbaijan too, but the "political" prisoners in Armenia are of a different kind, being guilty of mass armed disorders and a coup d'etat. In Europe, they would get life in prison, in America, the death penalty.

In the end, this also weakens Levon and his movement, which is a good thing because last thing we need is a Levon revolution. For Levon and his movement, it would have been better if none of these things happened, so he could continue to complain against the Government.

I don't agree on this one, the individuals released (especially the Pashinyan types) are criminals and a danger for our society, which will not lead to anything good.

Yes, I don't like Levon as I think a person who is willing to sell Karabakh doesn't deserve to lead the Armenian people. That being said, arresting him and jailing him, doesn't solve the problem and in my view worsens it. What we need is a open, civil political atmosphere in our country, which in my view is being achieved and Serzh is being seen more favourably.

Disagree, we need to be a democratic country which, a democratic country punishes people who have guilt and blood on their hands, regardless who ever they are, and protects the innocent, that's real democracy. The ruling of the court should have been final, it actually shows the president still has all power as he can set free whomever he wants.

I see zero benefit in releasing these criminals.

[Mos]

Re: Pr. Sargsyan declares amnesty for Political Prisoners

I am happy that it isn't like Azerbaijan too, but the "political" prisoners in Armenia are of a different kind, being guilty of mass armed disorders and a coup d'etat. In Europe, they would get life in prison, in America, the death penalty.

Aside from their talk, what evidence exists that they were trying to overthrow the government with weapons and violence?

I don't agree on this one, the individuals released (especially the Pashinyan types) are criminals and a danger for our society, which will not lead to anything good.

They are dangerous only if they planned to resort to violence to achieve their goals.

Disagree, we need to be a democratic country which, a democratic country punishes people who have guilt and blood on their hands, regardless who ever they are, and protects the innocent, that's real democracy. The ruling of the court should have been final, it actually shows the president still has all power as he can set free whomever he wants.

I see zero benefit in releasing these criminals.

Yes, but does guilt lie in saying anti-Government things and threatening revolution, or specifically arming themselves to overthrow the government? In my view, only the latter should be punished. Head of states have the amnesty power in many democratic nations.

[Federate]

Re: Pr. Sargsyan declares amnesty for Political Prisoners

Aside from their talk, what evidence exists that they were trying to overthrow the government with weapons and violence?

He is talking about their sentences. Many of the alleged political prisoners were caught with illegal firearms. The fact that two police officers were among the 10 dead during the riots does not help their case either.

[Tigranakert]

Re: Pr. Sargsyan declares amnesty for Political Prisoners

Aside from their talk, what evidence exists that they were trying to overthrow the government with weapons and violence?

It was not only their talking, but they actively tried to involve generals, politicians and the police to join their side in the "revolution" (coupe detat), together with using violence and weapons and promoting mass disorders, violating the rule of law.

Besides this, there is enough evidence in the form of video and phone recording of their plans to overthrow the government. You were not aware of all of this?

They are dangerous only if they planned to resort to violence to achieve their goals.

Indeed, and they did so.

Yes, but does guilt lie in saying anti-Government things and threatening revolution, or specifically arming themselves to overthrow the government? In my view, only the latter should be punished. Head of states have the amnesty power in many democratic nations.

Indeed, the latter should be punished, that's why these criminals shouldn't have been released. Especially since they show no regret whatsoever of their criminal activities.

Furthermore, I have never seen an amnesty on such a large scale in Europe before, especially not for these types of criminals, it's becoming less and less, most of the "amnesties" is applied in individual cases.

[Mos]

Re: Pr. Sargsyan declares amnesty for Political Prisoners

It was not only their talking, but they actively tried to involve generals, politicians and the police to join their side in the "revolution" (coupe detat), together with using violence and weapons and promoting mass disorders, violating the rule of law.

Besides this, there is enough evidence in the form of video and phone recording of their plans to overthrow the government. You were not aware of all of this?

If the organisers truly intended on achieving their goals with violence and blood, than they deserve to be punished. However, there is a fine line between them doing that and them threatening revolution. During the protests of March 1, many Hooligans took advantage of the situation and looted shops and attacked police (the police retaliating of course). Now if there is a direct connection here: these people ordering those hooligans to attack police and do other violent acts than yes they should be punished. If not, than it's just all circumstantial.

Furthermore, I have never seen an amnesty on such a large scale in Europe before, especially not for these types of criminals, it's becoming less and less, most of the "amnesties" is applied in individual cases.

well yes in that respect this amnesty was unique. But the people who were released were connected to similar charges.

[Federate]

Re: Pr. Sargsyan declares amnesty for Political Prisoners

If the organisers truly intended on achieving their goals with violence and blood, than they deserve to be punished. However, there is a fine line between them doing that and them threatening revolution. During the protests of March 1, many Hooligans took advantage of the situation and looted shops and attacked police (the police retaliating of course). Now if there is a direct connection here: these people ordering those hooligans to attack police and do other violent acts than yes they should be punished. If not, than it's just all circumstantial.

But hooligans and looters would have no interest attacking police; on the contrary, they want to avoid the police as much as they can so they can get away with looting. They take advantage of dispersed and occupied police force. The only hooligans who attack police are usually anti-establishment/anarchist types and if that's the case then it is still political violence.

[Mos]

Re: Pr. Sargsyan declares amnesty for Political Prisoners

But hooligans and looters would have no interest attacking police; on the contrary, they want to avoid the police as much as they can so they can get away with looting. They take advantage of dispersed and occupied police force. The only hooligans who attack police are usually anti-establishment/anarchist types and if that's the case then it is still political violence.

Well those anarchists would be classified as hooligans as well in my eyes. The thing that needs to be proven is that the people who attacked the police and looted shops were directly ordered by these organisers/activists to do so or if they were just acting alone. Maybe they were responding to violence by the police? The March 1 events are truly a messy one, there were no "angels" on either side.

[Tigranakert]

Re: Pr. Sargsyan declares amnesty for Political Prisoners

I wasn't talking about the sheep (ordinary people) who joined the failed coupe detat. I am talking about those who are responsible for all of this, the Pashinyans, the organizers, who promoted a violent takeover and are the cause of the mass disorders, they shouldn't have been released.

Again, I was not only "talking", but as you can see, they used armed violence and bribery to overthrow a government. What happened was planned and a very sophisticated orchestra of events, also the timing of the generals, ministers and dozens of other people who "joined" the oppositions. It's clear for anyone that this was a failed coupe detat, and for this the heaviest punishment must be used. Again, in European countries they would have got life (at minimum, as they would have killed them anyway during the protests), and in America the death penalty for sure.

If in your "opinion" this was mere talking, than our opinions differ, simple as that.

[Artsakh]

Re: Pr. Sargsyan declares amnesty for Political Prisoners

The release of the "political prisoners" is a political move aimed at pleasing the international community, and I think the US in particular. It came after the US warned aid will be cut off to Armenia because it supposedly doesn't meet certain "democratic standards", in spite of the fact Armenia is the most democratic country in the caucasus (compared to Dictatorship in Azerbaijan and Sakashvillis regime in Georgia).

This is a response to that. I think a balancing act is essential. Russia has it's place and is a strategic partner, but it would be good not to turn a back on the US. Armenia has always thrived when it pursued a balanced foreign policy, dating back to the ages.

In any ways, I have always been against serj, but i am becoming his fan. not because of his pleasing the US and releasing of prisoners, but because of how he changed his stance on Armenian issues 100% towards the better after the failed protocols.

[Mos]

Re: Pr. Sargsyan declares amnesty for Political Prisoners

I wasn't talking about the sheep (ordinary people) who joined the failed coupe detat. I am talking about those who are responsible for all of this, the Pashinyans, the organizers, who promoted a violent takeover and are the cause of the mass disorders, they shouldn't have been released.

Again, I was not only "talking", but as you can see, they used armed violence and bribery to overthrow a government. What happened was planned and a very sophisticated orchestra of events, also the timing of the generals, ministers and dozens of other people who "joined" the oppositions. It's clear for anyone that this was a failed coupe detat, and for this the heaviest punishment must be used. Again, in European countries they would have got life (at minimum, as they would have killed them anyway during the protests), and in America the death penalty for sure.

If in your "opinion" this was mere talking, than our opinions differ, simple as that.

There are people to be punished as result of the March 1 events, no doubt about that, especially anybody that specifically gave orders for people to do what they did that day. That being said, just merely saying "we need a revolution" doesn't, in my view, warrant such punishment. Any idiot can say that they want a revolution, doesn't necessarily make them dangerous. The people that should be punished are the ones who specifically advocated revolution and followed through by specifically ordering violence and organising such an overthrow from the top. Now, I don't know much about what happened in the court rooms and what evidence was brought up, but all I'm saying is that there should be this clear distinction. Many of such activists just speak grand words, but do nothing about it.

In my view, with some of these "concessions" Serzh's favourability has gone up - which is good, because I don't want levon criminals retaking government and selling Artsakh to Turks than Armenia to the highest bidder.