Why we should not fall into the Israel Trap

[Serjik]

Re: Why we should not fall into the Israel Trap

Bro Russia is not too worried about radars. Europe is getting weak. Russia is only worried about missiles Turkey is going to host radars. If Turkey was going to host missiles Russia would screw them. US has also enough radars and missile in the Persian gulf and Arabia to take on ten Irans if they have to. For the last time missile shield in Europe or Turkey or the Far East is only meant for Russia. Im doing a lot of reading on this topic.

Missile shield can play multiple roles. However, this one is more aimed at Israeli defence than Russia. There's an illusion of opposition in Europe. They'll all bend down and do what their masters tell them eventually. The Russians made so much noise when the Americans were going to deploy missile shields in Europe but the Turkish one went by quietly with the Russians... Meanwhile, in Iran:

[LadyLazarus]

Re: Why we should not fall into the Israel Trap

We all know that these days Turkey and Israel don't get along. They yell at each other like little children and hold grudges against each other over the Flotilla incident. Given this, it has created talk about Israel possibly reaching out to Armenians by supporting Armenian lobby groups or recognising the Genocide. However, we should be careful not to fall into this trap. We cannot be fooled by this childish fight between Israel and Turkey. One simple grudge should not hide the decades of Israel-Turkey alliance and partnership, the decades of Israeli governments fighting hard to support Turkey in other countries such as the US, and of course the fact that Israel maintains very close relations with Azerbaijan, to the point that the Azeri secret intelligence and Mossad cooperate actively. If we fall into the Israeli trap we will just become simply tools. Turkey thinks it can fool the Muslim World by covering up its decades of close alliance with Israel with a this diplomatic fight. Muslim world shouldn't be fooled either by Turkey's tricks, and neither should we be fooled by Israeli tricks to use us. We also cannot afford to possibly endanger our strong relations with Iran by accepting Israel's offers. The Turkey-Israel-Azerbaijan axis is not going to fade away anytime soon, it's just at a low point now, it will be revitalised soon.

I understand and agree with your argument about not letting the current situation to allow us to forget the past. However, there's a difference between friendship and a politically motivated alliance. As the Arabs proverb says, "the enemy of my enemy is my friend". While it is true that Israel would be using us in this case, why not use them to further our aims with Turkey? It's all in the strategy--a symbiotic relationship (no matter how temporary) with our enemy's current enemy is to our benefit; we have to remove the emotion from politics to be successful at it. Armenians have historically been much too civil/honest/straight-forward/principled in our politics--it's time to step up our game. If Israel's going to treat Armenia like a loose woman and promise her never-ending love for one night of pleasure, I say this loose woman take the sugga daddy for all he's got!!

[Mos]

Re: Why we should not fall into the Israel Trap

I understand and agree with your argument about not letting the current situation to allow us to forget the past. However, there's a difference between friendship and a politically motivated alliance. As the Arabs proverb says, "the enemy of my enemy is my friend". While it is true that Israel would be using us in this case, why not use them to further our aims with Turkey? It's all in the strategy--a symbiotic relationship (no matter how temporary) with our enemy's current enemy is to our benefit; we have to remove the emotion from politics to be successful at it. Armenians have historically been much too civil/honest/straight-forward/principled in our politics--it's time to step up our game. If Israel's going to treat Armenia like a loose woman and promise her never-ending love for one night of pleasure, I say this loose woman take the sugga daddy for all he's got!!

But they are not the enemy of our biggest enemy Azerbaijan. In fact, those two are close buddies, it's just that they keep their close relationship discrete.

[Eddo211]

Re: Why we should not fall into the Israel Trap

We all know that these days Turkey and Israel don't get along. They yell at each other like little children and hold grudges against each other over the Flotilla incident. Given this, it has created talk about Israel possibly reaching out to Armenians by supporting Armenian lobby groups or recognising the Genocide. However, we should be careful not to fall into this trap. We cannot be fooled by this childish fight between Israel and Turkey. One simple grudge should not hide the decades of Israel-Turkey alliance and partnership, the decades of Israeli governments fighting hard to support Turkey in other countries such as the US, and of course the fact that Israel maintains very close relations with Azerbaijan, to the point that the Azeri secret intelligence and Mossad cooperate actively. If we fall into the Israeli trap we will just become simply tools. Turkey thinks it can fool the Muslim World by covering up its decades of close alliance with Israel with a this diplomatic fight. Muslim world shouldn't be fooled either by Turkey's tricks, and neither should we be fooled by Israeli tricks to use us. We also cannot afford to possibly endanger our strong relations with Iran by accepting Israel's offers. The Turkey-Israel-Azerbaijan axis is not going to fade away anytime soon, it's just at a low point now, it will be revitalised soon.

Well said Mos jan......I think if Aipac tries to push for the AG recognition the Armenian lobby in US should pull out the resolution this comming year, as hard as that may be. I will still be in front of the Turkish consulate but no matter, I would agree with such move. It will shock them and the Turks. This of course does not mean that we give up the recognation fight, we will never do that, but let them know we are no fools, we know who they both are.

[Mos]

Re: Why we should not fall into the Israel Trap

I doubt they will even openly support AG recognition. I mean after all those years of working against us, it would look pretty bad to all of sudden change teams. It won't be long till relations are back to this:

[arakeretzig]

Re: Why we should not fall into the Israel Trap

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/armenian-clergy-subjected-to-haredi-spitting-attacks-1.393912

When Narek Garabidian, a Canadian of Armenian extraction, came to Israel to study at the Armenian Orthodox theological seminary in Jerusalem, he never thought he would have to endure harsh insults from passersby.

For the past 18 months, Garabidian said last week, he has been spit at and cursed by ultra-Orthodox passersby in the Old City.


About a month ago he was spit at again, but this time, it hit his clothes. Garabidian, a former football player, said: "I pushed the two young ultra-Orthodox men up against the wall and asked, 'Why are you doing this?' They were really scared and said, 'Forgive us, we're sorry.' So I let them go."

When asked about the matter, Armenian clergymen said they had all been spit at, from the archbishop to the youngest of the divinity students. The most recent incident was on Thursday night, when a group of ultra-Orthodox xxxs got together to spit at the gates of the Armenian church. However, the police found out about the incident and thwarted it by stationing officers in front of the church.

Police say that in every case where a complaint is filed, the offender has been caught thanks to security cameras installed in the Old City.

But in a verdict almost two weeks ago, Jerusalem Magistrate's Court Judge Dov Pollock said: "The enforcement authorities are unable to root out the phenomenon and do not catch the spitters."

Pollock dismissed charges against Johannes Maratersian, an Armenian divinity student, who was spit at by an ultra-Orthodox man in May 2008 and responded by punching the man. Pollock ruled that prosecuting a man who has been spit on for years as he walks down the street in his clerical robes would contravene the principles of justice.

The Jerusalem district police responded: "All complaints of mutual assault are treated with the utmost severity. In the past, more than one case ended with charges being filed and the deportation of clergy involved in assault. As opposed to the situation about three years ago, the frequency of spitting has declined dramatically."