Armenian illusion of democracy and freedom of speech in USA

[Tigranakert]

This topic is made to wake up Armenians thinking that the USA stands for democracy and freedom of speech, as a minority in Armenia naively believes we should learn lessons from "peace-loving" America. Take a look at the following videos, and see how peaceful protesters have been dealt with in the USA (note: in 2008, America accused Armenia of all sorts of thing, even though the Levonnakans in 2008 had weapons, killed the police and even used grenades! These people who are protesting in the USA are unarmed! Let's see how they respond...).

We'll, if the same thing happened in a foreign country, America would have bombed it, bribed armed minority groups (who in the US media suddenly become the "majority" in the respective country) into toppling the "regime" or have invaded it.

[Mos]

Re: Armenian illusion of democracy and freedom of speech in USA

Well I doubt America would have bombed such a country, because if that was the case they would have bombed countries like France and Italy where such protests happen routinely and such police action is often taken. Young, emotional protesters and annoyed police often results in such violent actions...

[Tigranakert]

Re: Armenian illusion of democracy and freedom of speech in USA

Well I doubt America would have bombed such a country, because if that was the case they would have bombed countries like France and Italy where such protests happen routinely and such police action is often taken. Young, emotional protesters and annoyed police often results in such violent actions...

Because it is not in their advantage to attack their allies, thus they keep quiet if France or Italy surpress freedom of speech or "democratic values". If it's in their interest, they will resort to severe criticism and pressure, and often the case, bomb the hell out of the country or bribe minority criminal groups who present themselves as a majority.

The point is, Armenians have to stop believing that the US values democracy, human rights, or justice. Armenians have to realize that they have to look in to the world only in the point of self-interest. If Armenian interests do not coincide with the West, they will have no problem to help the Turks/Azeris to annihilate Armenia. After so much hardships we had the last centuries, there is still a group of Armenians who naively think that we have to break our strategic alliance with the Russian Federation and swap this for a strategic alliance with Western countries. The point is, the West has no interests in Armenia and we can offer them nothing, on the contrary, we are a problem for their regional allies. As soon as this happens, Armenia will not exist anymore.

Also, Russia does not advocate itself as the world leader of democracy, human rights, and freedom. America, which has even less reason to do so, does, and misuses this.

If my message is not repeated over and over, even before you know it, we will lose Armenia to a bunch of anti-Armenian self-interested bought "politicians" and their supporters and NGO/Media representatives who will sell out Armenia in a second. This scenario happened almost in 2008, and will continue to happen in the future. I think this is the biggest danger facing modern day Armenia.

[Federate]

Re: Armenian illusion of democracy and freedom of speech in USA

I call on NATO to militarily intervene in the US to protect its civilians from the brutality that its own government is exerting on its own people.

[Mos]

Re: Armenian illusion of democracy and freedom of speech in USA

Because it is not in their advantage to attack their allies, thus they keep quiet if France or Italy surpress freedom of speech or "democratic values". If it's in their interest, they will resort to severe criticism and pressure, and often the case, bomb the hell out of the country or bribe minority criminal groups who present themselves as a majority.

The point is, Armenians have to stop believing that the US values democracy, human rights, or justice. Armenians have to realize that they have to look in to the world only in the point of self-interest. If Armenian interests do not coincide with the West, they will have no problem to help the Turks/Azeris to annihilate Armenia. After so much hardships we had the last centuries, there is still a group of Armenians who naively think that we have to break our strategic alliance with the Russian Federation and swap this for a strategic alliance with Western countries. The point is, the West has no interests in Armenia and we can offer them nothing, on the contrary, we are a problem for their regional allies. As soon as this happens, Armenia will not exist anymore.

Also, Russia does not advocate itself as the world leader of democracy, human rights, and freedom. America, which has even less reason to do so, does, and misuses this.

If my message is not repeated over and over, even before you know it, we will lose Armenia to a bunch of anti-Armenian self-interested bought "politicians" and their supporters and NGO/Media representatives who will sell out Armenia in a second. This scenario happened almost in 2008, and will continue to happen in the future. I think this is the biggest danger facing modern day Armenia.

I don't know if this incident can be shown as suppressing free speech. You have young, emotional protesters defying a police order, and police who are annoyed and determined to fulfill the order. The result is naturally not going to be very peaceful. Of course there are flaws in "democracy" in US and other countries such as France and Italy, but the situation of freedom of speech is not as bad as in countries such as N. Korea, Uzbekistan, or Azerbaijan. There's a significant difference. I think the biggest and more legitimate criticism of the US lies in their foreign policy and some of the ideals that they believe their country, people and culture holds. Their idea of "spreading democracy" throughout the world is utter BS and I think many people know this.

Armenians need to start believing in Armenian values and being patriotic enough to sustain a safer and stronger Armenia. Yes, we are strategically not aligned with the West, and this should be also recognised by our populace. A scenario where a Armenian Rose Revolution occurred would indeed be scary. Karabakh would be sold (like LTP has advocated) borders would be opened, and we would have influx of Turkish/Azeri businesses flowing into Armenia. Over time, Armenia would be placed in a Turkish sphere along with Azerbaijan and Georgia, and from then on we all know the implications. There are three players in the region. Turkey, Russia, and Iran (and maybe a fourth US or combine that with Turkey). We always have to align ourself with the anti-Turkish side. That means having good relations with countries like Greece, Cyprus, Serbia, Russia. Our alliances will shift based on these countries policies towards Turkey. That is why the worsening of Iranian-Turkish relations is a very good sign for us, we need an Iran that is friends with the anti-Turkish axis. That is why we should never believe Turkish lies, and why I believe Serzh should not have started that normalisation policy.

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Armenian illusion of democracy and freedom of speech in USA

We'll, if the same thing happened in a foreign country, America would have bombed it, bribed armed minority groups (who in the US media suddenly become the "majority" in the respective country) into toppling the "regime" or have invaded it.

And if it had happened in Russia, Putin's leather-clad fascist thugs would have been doing the beating - and would be doing it for the pleasure (unlike the police-uniform-clad thugs in America who do it because they are paid to do it and blindly follow orders).

I don't know why you think exposing oppression and blatant double-standards in one country (America) allows for, or apologises for, or excuses, or allows you to ignore, oppression and lack of democracy in another country (Armenia).

[Vahram]

Re: Armenian illusion of democracy and freedom of speech in USA

The cat speaks, and the videos have been removed from youtube! After all when it is time to beat up Americans it should not be on the news

Contrast this with a few months ago when the green movement in Iran and the police beat them then. What did Washington say? " let them speak they have a right " ...LOL

Now in Okland you get shot in the face, when are we going to have a fund from Washington for the poor American shot in the face?

The problem is when the going was good the boys up top were robbing everyone over seas, now they are robbing from home. If you mess with them they will shoot you in the face! They will pull the video from youtube, and the controled media will not even report it. Not even freedom loving press of ours will say a thing about shooting an American in the face!

"I have a dream" Some black guy said this once. What happened to the dream?

[Vahram]

Re: Armenian illusion of democracy and freedom of speech in USA

We don't care what your dream is any more, we will shoot you in the face!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaB9vwv0GVg

They shot him too! The big difference is that now they will remove the video. This way you will never know they shot you in the face!

Let freedom rain! Let it rain, oh the out puring of love

"unlike the police-uniform-clad thugs in America who do it because they are paid to do it and blindly follow orders"

Give me two dollars let me shoot you in the face! Now that is so much better becuase I now have two dollars in my pocket. Yea thats the ticket

Guess if you make money from the crime it is OK! So who wants to give me two dollars to shoot someone in the face?

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Armenian illusion of democracy and freedom of speech in USA

The cat speaks, and the videos have been removed from youtube!

Stop feeding Tigranakert's paranoia!

What videos have been removed? The 3 on this thread are still there.

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Armenian illusion of democracy and freedom of speech in USA

The cat speaks, and the videos have been removed from youtube! After all when it is time to beat up Americans it should not be on the news

Contrast this with a few months ago when the green movement in Iran and the police beat them then. What did Washington say? " let them speak they have a right " ...LOL

Now in Okland you get shot in the face, when are we going to have a fund from Washington for the poor American shot in the face?

The problem is when the going was good the boys up top were robbing everyone over seas, now they are robbing from home. If you mess with them they will shoot you in the face! They will pull the video from youtube, and the controled media will not even report it. Not even freedom loving press of ours will say a thing about shooting an American in the face!

So, what has changed? Nothing. The US media didn't properly investigate or report on America's overseas adventures in killing when they was going on - it censored itself, it closed its eyes and ears, it gave up on its professional responsibility - so, not surprisingly, that attitude doesn't change when itcomes to reporting state-sanctioned violence inside the USA directed against US citizens. A country needs a free and a fearless media. When it does not have it, this is what happens.