Armenian Special Forces

[Cory]

Re: Armenian Special Forces

Your statement is absolute rubbish.

What about this statement is "absolute rubbish"?

".....The Bible has 66 books written by 40 men over period of roughly 1,500 years. It was written by God, through common man or kings.
Most of these men never met each other or lived in the same historical time period, but every book, every chapter, every verse interlace perfectly....."

What, is it 67 books? or 65 books? Was it written by 40,000 men, or 39 men? Was it written in 1 day or a billion years? What makes that statement "absolute rubbish"?

You clearly decided to ignore my first bible lesson I gave you.

I had't decided to ignore your "bible lesson". Although I really was not planing on responding.

You stated,

"Cory

Since you are interested in military issues as well as the bible let me give you a small lesson from the Bible.

Read Numbers 31 1-50

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...31&version=NIV"

Followed by a section of the Old Testament of Gods judgment on the ungodly. Ok, and? What response were you looking for?

To remind you these were the instructions from "God".

17 Now kill all the boys.
And kill every woman who has slept with a man,
18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

I will let the reader guess as to why.

I don't think our readers are here to guess or make assumptions, whats your point?

Elsewhere no doubt there are far more "gentler" passages.

Yes "no doubt".

However I do not see any “interlace” as you put it.

You don't seem like you see anything.

You cannot.

http://www.towerwatch.com/Witnesses/...ir_beliefs.htm

Nationalism

Jehovah’s Witnesses are not allowed to salute the flag of any nation,
recite the pledge of allegiance,
stand for or sing the national anthem,
run for public office,
vote, or
serve in the armed forces.

I'm NOT a Jehovahs Witness. So brining up some watch towers guidelines is pointless here. Again you made the same mistake of labeling. If you paid close attention, and not rushed to conclusions, and had any real knowledge of what Jehovahs Witnesses represent, than you'd realize that my "Merry Christmas" wish goes completely against the Jehovah Witnesses beliefs.

Let me ask you a question. How do you study? Math or Chemistry for example. Any subject. Any book. Doesn't matter. Do you read a paragraph from chapter one, and than maybe a paragraph or two from chapter 8, and than skip to a sentence from chapter 32? And than do you throw the book out and claim that it's "rubbish" because you "don't see" how the first paragraph you read has anything to do with a statement in chapter 48? Is that how you study? If not, than what makes you think that you can do it to the Bible?

Wouldn't you open your math book, and start from scratch? Word from word. Sentence after sentence. You read it, study it, re-read what you don't understand. Ask for guidance by a teacher, constantly search and spend hours on that one subject, because at that moment that is your goal. What makes you think the Bible is any different?

I don't want to offend you with this, but the only example I can think of that we can both relate to is this: brining up a passage from the Old Testament to try to discredit the validity of the whole Bible by claiming it contradicts, is as groundless as any genocide denier claiming that there was no genocide because not only Armenians, but Turks died too.

It's baseless, used by people with no knowledge of the whole word of God.

Again, don't be offended. That's not intention.

But if anyone is offended by the word of God, than he is offended by the truth. In that case, I will go on offending.

[Cory]

Re: Armenian Special Forces

The problem with your thinking is that you don't realize if everyone thought like you, there won't be any Armenians left to make it to "what comes next". If that was every Armenian's mentality, we would get annihiliated as an ethnicity once and for all. If every Armenian sat around, loving their enemy, not caring for this temorary world, there wouldn't be an Armenia right now. It's that very thinking that has set us back over the centuries.

Exactly, that's been my point from the start.

Except for it is not my thinking, it's the word of God through the Bible. If any nation followed Christ, than that nation would not be a nation. Because that nation will put salvation of their souls above any land or border line, and eternal life ahead of this life. That will be the end of that nation, but it will lead to the salvation of their souls through Jesus Christ. Since we know that is impossible and unrealistic, not because God cannot, but because thats not what Christ came for, and Christianity is meant for the few who are willing to follow Christ in faith, by works for eternal salvation. And not earthly nations. And because Christ came to shed his blood so that we are no longer bound by the law given to the people of Israel through Moses, and that not only the xxxs but all the people would have salvation. God makes it very clear that following this world and caring for this worlds needs is vanity.

Matthew 13:22
Now he who received seed among the thorns is he who hears the word, and the cares of this world and the deceitfulness of riches choke the word, and he becomes unfruitful.

Believers of Christ live IN the world but are not OF the world. Just like Christ came not for the world, but to free us from the world.

John 18:36
Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the xxxs; but now My kingdom is not from here.”

And agan.

John 17:13-15
13 But now I come to You, and these things I speak in the world, that they may have My joy fulfilled in themselves. 14 I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. 15 I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one.

Christ makes it clear that this world is ruled my satan himself, this is reinforced when we read how satan took Christ to the top of the hill, showed him the WORLD and promised to give it to God if he would fall down and worship satan. But Christ responds, Luke 4:4 But Jesus answered him, saying, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.’”

Not by a few verses, or my words, but by reading the whole Bible and asking God to open our spiritual eyes so that we will understand the wisdom of God given to men. And when that happens, we see that politics, national pride, love of money, idol worship and the overall cares of this world are pointless and contradict CHRISTIANITY.

Ephesians 2:1-3
1 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.

So what, i Just proved your point. Yes, but that's not what our so-called spiritual leaders teach us. They tell us that as long as we light a few candles, kiss a few cross tones, call them "ter hayr" and follower all their other traditions, than somehow we will be fine. They teach us that not only do national and worldly interests NOT contradict the Holy Bible, but as if national and worldly interests should come first in our lives. This coming from a so-called priest. But when we study the word of God, we see that national interests or worldly cares have no room in a believers heart, mind or soul. Their lying.

2 Corinthians 7:9-11
9 Now I rejoice, not that you were made sorry, but that your sorrow led to repentance. For you were made sorry in a godly manner, that you might suffer loss from us in nothing. 10 For godly sorrow produces repentance leading to salvation, not to be regretted; but the sorrow of the world produces death. 11 For observe this very thing, that you sorrowed in a godly manner: What diligence it produced in you, what clearing of yourselves, what indignation, what fear, what vehement desire, what zeal, what vindication! In all things you proved yourselves to be clear in this matter.

[/QUOTE]Those thoughts of let's all be peaceful, turn the other cheek, and love each other might sound nice in an ideal world, but in reality, our country is surrounded by 100 million Turks and Azeris who consider us unfinished work. In the real world, nothing works like that.[/QUOTE]

Again, not my words, or my thoughts. Don't believe a word I'm saying, go to the word of God. But if you don't believe the word of God, than thats your decision. God spoke through the Apostle Paul regarding who the real enemy is, and said; Ephesians 6:12 "For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places."

Now it's up to you and me, to make a choice, this world or Christ? One leads to eternal death and the other to eternal life. You can't have both. Our Lord Jesus Christ is not of this world and neither are his followers. In the end we will all answer to God.

God bless all of you.

[Cory]

Re: Armenian Special Forces

I see ur comments, and I'll try to respond to them asap. I see ur comments too londontsi, I'm trying to go in order, so be patient.

[londontsi]

Re: Armenian Special Forces

.....The Bible has 66 books written by 40 men over period of roughly 1,500 years. It was written by God, through common man or kings.
Most of these men never met each other or lived in the same historical time period, but every book, every chapter, every verse interlace perfectly.....

Your statement is absolute rubbish.

You clearly decided to ignore my first bible lesson I gave you.

To remind you these were the instructions from "God".

17 Now kill all the boys.
And kill every woman who has slept with a man,
18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

I will let the reader guess as to why.


Elsewhere no doubt there are far more "gentler" passages.
However I do not see any “interlace” as you put it.

.

[londontsi]

Re: Armenian Special Forces

But along with that love and passion we have for our nation .....

You cannot.

http://www.towerwatch.com/Witnesses/Beliefs/their_beliefs.htm

Nationalism

Jehovah’s Witnesses are not allowed to salute the flag of any nation,
recite the pledge of allegiance,
stand for or sing the national anthem,
run for public office,
vote, or
serve in the armed forces.

[Mher]

Re: Armenian Special Forces

Our lives are temporary in this world. What comes afterwards is eternal. We don’t belong here, so why trade eternity for a life and place we are briefly passing by? Land, wars and politics are nothing but a delusion. We are made to believe that this vapor of a life is all we have to live for.

The problem with your thinking is that you don't realize if everyone thought like you, there won't be any Armenians left to make it to "what comes next". If that was every Armenian's mentality, we would get annihiliated as an ethnicity once and for all. If every Armenian sat around, loving their enemy, not caring for this temorary world, there wouldn't be an Armenia right now. It's that very thinking that has set us back over the centuries.

Those thoughts of let's all be peaceful, turn the other cheek, and love each other might sound nice in an ideal world, but in reality, our country is surrounded by 100 million Turks and Azeris who consider us unfinished work. In the real world, nothing works like that.

[UrMistake]

Re: Armenian Special Forces

I have to say that the faith is only a weapon to keep you going and not the ultimate path , it only meant a way for you to be a better of your self.

I dont know what you have done to seek so much from god , but it has nothing to do with what man made here in earth , the doings of turks in beyond God, the weapon you choose to fight them is the wrong one, if we all start to think like you then we deserve a new medieval age for us.

[Cory]

Re: Armenian Special Forces

30 days later


Next you come back ready with a bible under your arm and give a sermon with chapter and verse all prepared.


We may have arguments on this forum but we accept the rights of other’s forthright opinion (subject to forum rules).

I have never seen a contributor to go through transformation in such a short time.

I have already mentioned that I was raised under Christian values. I have also already mentioned that I lived both lives, strayed away from my faith, but that it has always bugged me. This wasn't some short time transformation. Even though many have excepted Christ and completely changed their lives over night, thats not unusual.

My humble view is ... if you were a "true Christian” you would not have entered the room with a deception.

I see what you mean, looking back at the posts here I know it doesn't look right. I didn't want to post here in the first place, since I had already read most of the posts about "religion" and "Christianity" and I had good idea of the reaction I was going to get. But believe me, this was NOT some deceptive move. Believe me, I'm real. I have spent countless ours fighting and arguing against the Turks for our Armenian nation. My videos for example, I received a lot of compliments on them. But what made the stand out over the rest was my heart and passion towards our Armenian nation and army. What did you feel when watching them? You felt what I felt. You think that was the work of some brainwashed fool or a "fake" as some here try to make me look?

But along with that love and passion we have for our nation, we have just as much hate and anger towards the other, and hate (or "national pride") in me went completely against what I had learned through the word of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Like I stated before, this has bugged me for a long time, even when I was making and posting videos. And thats why took down the videos.

I didn't expect people to understand. Look at Tigranakert for example, he is offended because I called the Armenian nation "unbelievers" and rants on and on about how Armenians were (and are) this holy nation that have done nothing wrong. And than he claims I'm the one "brainwashed". He completely mocks and insults the Bible and says I'm arrogant for calling him an "unbeliever", and continues to discredit the Bible even further and denies that's what he's doing. He claimed that I'm a Jehovahs witness, even after I wished everyone a Merry Christmas, but since he has no clue what he's talking about, he has no clue that Jehovahs witnesses do NOT celebrate Christmas. See what I mean by hate? It clouds your ability to think and debate. We become this rambling mockers. Thats why i don't want to contribute to this hate any longer. You guys asked and I answered.

And now I'm the enemy. And we blame the Turks for viscously attacking their own countryman for excepting the Armenian Genocide, but how are we any different if we attack our own in the same way when they point out our faults, mistakes or wrongdoings?

[Tigranakert]

Re: Armenian Special Forces

Nothing I’ve said suggests denying our nations sufferings. By “man made delusion” I was referring to mans struggle, stress, fight and worry for this world. Our lives are temporary in this world. What comes afterwards is eternal. We don’t belong here, so why trade eternity for a life and place we are briefly passing by? Land, wars and politics are nothing but a delusion. We are made to believe that this vapor of a life is all we have to live for.

I know what you are referring too, and indeed, in a “Utopia” where every human being on earth is like an angel, peaceful, love-full, happy, jumping and singing all day and night, playing games and making love all nights, there would be no suffering. But delusion or not, reality is what it is, and your Utopian dreams will only lead to our destruction and further suffering, as it’s simply to unrealistic, and even a waste of time to talk about this nonsense.

I’ve already stated that Christianity is not for nations, governments or wars, it’s for mens personal salvation, so brining up the karabagh war is irrelevant. This isn’t about genocide, Karabagh, Turks or Azeris. This is about using Christianity as a tool to control the mass as a deceit for political gain done by major churches such as the Armenian Orthodox church. And in order for them to use it for their political gain, they have to lie to you and twist the teachings of Christ, by claiming that national pride, culture and other vanity’s come first. This is a lie, and those hypocrites know it very well. They will answer to God.

I’m not talking about what Christianity is, or if it’s a tool or not, I am saying that under these circumstances, people like you, because of their super-human belief and arrogance, will stand idle and watch how other peoples rape, torture and slice their daughter and sons into pieces, because “this is just a temporary life, whuja!”, let’s love baby.

You are a hypocrite, in only two posts you have already judged others, and are claiming you are a “believer” and others are “unbelievers”, I think you will be severely judged by Mithras and afterwards by Zeus.

If all men created “defense army of prayer” as true Christians should, than there would not be wars or any worry of rape and murder. But since man live under the delusion as if they are accomplishing something worthy for their people, national pride, country or religion, than that’s when men commit all kinds of evil against one another, even under the name of “Christianity”. Hate is hate, evil is evil, no matter what reasons are behind it.

I know, if all men were but good, we could dance, sing, run, pray, and laugh all that, boy what a joy that would be! Lets put down our arms, and go and sing together with the Azeris while they are destroying our national heritage, our churches and while they are raping our daughters, let’s pray for them! For this is true Christianity!

The Armenian Orthodox church comes from pagan religions, not the Bible.

Again, large parts the Bible itself has also come from pagan religions; the story of Noah’s Ark itself is pagan tradition.

I don’t know many “believers” that think the Bible is put together by some pagan religions as you claim. In fact, I was debating with a satan worshiper who made a very similar comment about the Bible being a mutation of other religions.

Probably because most of the “believers” you see as “believers” are Jehovas Witnesses, no wonder why. A Satan Worshipper, I mean come on, how old are you? How many Jedi Knights were present?

Claiming the Bible has been revised and is full of contradictions is the same lies used by Atheists and Muslims to try to discredit the Bible. In fact, the satanist I was recently debating with was using the same argument.

I’m not discrediting the Bible, I am just stating facts, and I am not a religious fanatic as you to be blind and ignorant for things, which have happened in history.

I love my nation as much as you do, but I’m sorry the overwhelming majority of Armenians have no idea what being a “Christian” is, let alone a “true Christian”.

The overwhelming part of the world does not know what being a “Jehovas witness” is, let a lone a “true Jehovas” witness, that is indeed true, my super-human who will go to heaven and others will not, friend.

But enough discussions about your personal beliefs in a Jehovan Utopia, let’s discuss other things.

1) How do you look upon the Karabakh Defense Army?
2) How do you look upon Armenian soldiers protecting their country, nation and children?
3) How do you look upon Armenians being proud of their history and heritage, and their Armenianness?

I know that brainwashed religious fanatics as you have a tendency to refuse joining the army because they think that by letting others rape torture and slice their daughters and sons into pieces, is the good thing to do, as this is just a temporary world before going to Utopia, right?

[Cory]

Re: Armenian Special Forces

“Oh, the Armenian genocide is just a men made lie and delusion, the killing of hundreds of thousand of innocent Armenians is just a men made lie and a delusion, the destruction of thousands of Churches is a men made lie and delusion, you know what the solution is? Armenians should pray more!”

Nothing I’ve said suggests denying our nations sufferings. By “man made delusion” I was referring to mans struggle, stress, fight and worry for this world. Our lives are temporary in this world. What comes afterwards is eternal. We don’t belong here, so why trade eternity for a life and place we are briefly passing by? Land, wars and politics are nothing but a delusion. We are made to believe that this vapor of a life is all we have to live for.

Matthew 16:26

“For what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul? Or what will a man give in exchange for his soul?”

“We should have created a Karabakh Defense Army of prayers, and as a true Christian, we should let the Turks/Azeris rape, torture and kill our children, our daughters and sons, because defending one's nation and one's heritage, is against Christianity.”

I’ve already stated that Christianity is not for nations, governments or wars, it’s for mens personal salvation, so brining up the karabagh war is irrelevant. This isn’t about genocide, Karabagh, Turks or Azeris. This is about using Christianity as a tool to control the mass as a deceit for political gain done by major churches such as the Armenian Orthodox church. And in order for them to use it for their political gain, they have to lie to you and twist the teachings of Christ, by claiming that national pride, culture and other vanity’s come first. This is a lie, and those hypocrites know it very well. They will answer to God.

Matthew 15
1 Then the scribes and Pharisees who were from Jerusalem came to Jesus, saying, 2 “Why do Your disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat bread.”
3 He answered and said to them, “Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition? 4 For God commanded, saying, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’ 5 But you say, ‘Whoever says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me is a gift to God”— 6 then he need not honor his father or mother.’ Thus you have made the commandment of God of no effect by your tradition. 7 Hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy about you, saying:
8 ‘ These people draw near to Me with their mouth,
And honor Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.
9 And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’”

If all men created “defense army of prayer” as true Christians should, than there would not be wars or any worry of rape and murder. But since man live under the delusion as if they are accomplishing something worthy for their people, national pride, country or religion, than that’s when men commit all kinds of evil against one another, even under the name of “Christianity”. Hate is hate, evil is evil, no matter what reasons are behind it.

“And which sect do you admire too now? Jehova's witness? Evangelism?”

The Apostle Paul was accused of the same, so I will let him answer it for you,

Acts 24:14

“But this I confess to you, that according to the Way which they call a sect, so I worship the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets.”

“The worst part is, that you think you are a "believer" and others are "unbelievers", which shows that you are not a true Christian, shame on you. It would also probably come as a shock to you to know a large part of the writings in the bible has come from pagan religions.”

The Armenian Orthodox church comes from pagan religions, not the Bible.

The Bible has 66 books written by 40 men over period of roughly 1,500 years. It was written by God, through common man or kings. Most of these men never met each other or lived in the same historical time period, but every book, every chapter, every verse interlace perfectly. The Old Testament points to the first coming of Christ, and the New Testament points to the second coming of Christ.

I don’t know many “believers” that think the Bible is put together by some pagan religions as you claim. In fact, I was debating with a satan worshiper who made a very similar comment about the Bible being a mutation of other religions.

“You are a good example of an "Armenian" having been brainwashed in a Western country by a Western sect to believe he is a true "worshipper" of God. People like you would only look and pray to God when their daughter is getting raped and tortured and sliced in many pieces in front of your eyes. We'll, be proud of yourself "super-human", there is definitely a place in heaven for you, and not for those parents who tried do defend their children by means of arms and prayers.”

I’m sorry, but there is just too much nonsense here for me to take this paragraph serious.

“The bible is a book written by people, and revised dozens of times throughout the century, and the English format of the bible you are reading today, is probably not even close to being accurate of the "original" bible two thousand years ago. Furthermore, there are numerous contradictions within the modern-day bible itself, and important parts have been deleted or removed (but hey, you're a brainwashed extremist and would of course ignore these facts and wholeheartedly believe the English-language (evangelic, jehova's) bible you are reading today).”

Claiming the Bible has been revised and is full of contradictions is the same lies used by Atheists and Muslims to try to discredit the Bible. In fact, the satanist I was recently debating with was using the same argument.

My first Bible was an Armenian version brought from Echmiazin given to me by my father at a very young age. I finished reading the whole Armenian Bible at around age 13. Now I read the English version yes, and they are exactly the same, just different languages. There are many different English translations yes, but I read the Kings James English version. It’s the original translation and has been proven to be accurate, as it is also accurate with our Armenian version. So you see, accusing me of being brainwashed and extremist is only your ignorance talking.

“Anyway, the message of Christianity is to be good, think good, and do good, and being proud of one's culture, one's army, one's history, and one's nation does not contradict the core teachings of Christianity.”

You just claimed the Bible was some pagan religions combined, that has been revised dozens of times with important parts deleted and it’s filled with contradictions. But now you’re here giving lessons on Christianity? You realize that Christianity is based on the Bible right? The book you just completely discredited? Please tell me again on what is the “core teachings” of a book that has been “…revised dozens of times… there are numerous contradictions… and important parts have been deleted or removed”

See what I mean by “unbelievers”? You don’t even believe in the very book you claim to know the “core teachings” of. You see “The worst part is” not that I expose your unbelief and ignorance, but that you allow your anger and hatred speak for you, and you trap yourself in your own words.

Matthew 22:37-40
37 Jesus said to him, “ ‘You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

THAT is the core teaching of Christianity, and NOT, “to be good, think good, and do good, and being proud of one's culture, one's army, one's history, and one's nation…” Sounds like some kindergarten lessons.

“Having lived in Western countries all my life, and having read history, I have seen that Armenians have actually been the closest to being "true Christians", because one has to look at the actions of the peoples, and not in the "words".

There is half-truth here. It’s true that Armenian’s words are as far from their actions as east is from west.

But since you have lived in western countries all your life reading Armenian history, it’s probably why you keep repeating some stereotypical statements, without any real clue of what our people suffer from today. You have no real experience.

"because one has to look at the actions of the peoples, and not in the "words".

But if their actions don’t coincide with their words, than what your saying is that someone can speak all kinds of evil, hate and profanity, but there “actions” can be loving and good?

Matthew 12:36-38
“36 But I say to you that for every idle word men may speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgment. 37 For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.”


"Armenians have been far more hospitable, have been more brotherly, and more close than most of the nations in the world, and throughout Armenian history, one sees that compared to other nations, we almost never had any imperialist policies, nor have attacked other nations on a massive scale, nor have committed numerous genocides and mass slaughters which are rampant in Europe, Africa, Asia and America's.”

This is irrelevant. I know our history and the sufferings of our nation.

“God bless Armenians, a nation of true noble people, reading our history, one can not but only be proud! And even though we are going to a period (centuries) of great difficulties, by looking at the actions and deeds, Armenians have sticked the closest of being true Christians, as being a Christian is not by going to " Church every Sunday" or being as arrogant as Cory to feel himself as a true believer and others as unbelievers, but by being judged by one's deeds and actions.”

I love my nation as much as you do, but I’m sorry the overwhelming majority of Armenians have no idea what being a “Christian” is, let alone a “true Christian”.

Most Armenians pledge all loyalty to the Armenian Orthodox Church, but they themselves don’t believe or except the teachings of the Bible. Some go as far as denying Christ being the Son of God. But all boast from sea to sea of how Armenia was the first Christian nation! But as you yourself proved here - you and they are nothing but unbelievers, using the same empty arguments used by Atheists, Muslim and satanists. But the word of God will put all your nonsense to shame.

1 Timothy 6:3-5
“3 If anyone teaches otherwise and does not consent to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which accords with godliness, 4 he is proud, knowing nothing, but is obsessed with disputes and arguments over words, from which come envy, strife, reviling, evil suspicions, 5 useless wranglings of men of corrupt minds and destitute of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain. From such withdraw yourself.”