Politics in Hayastan

[DieHard69]

Re: Politics in Hayastan

I don't think that public is leaning towards revolutions. For that to happen you must have an ideological basis.
I think more of large and unending social unrests, large scale civil disobedience and maybe even, you're right, killings.
I don't think any group will go for Pavlik's Sasna Tsrer type "French Rvolutionaire" barricading or Bastille charge.
Government has got a too strong security forces.
Maybe like you say, assasinations, South American type secret vigilante groups etc.
I don't know, what exactly can happen or what is the solution.
I don't think people know what to do.
But the fact that things are heading to catastrophe is visible.
Thiscannot continue for very long.
There could be public demonstrations so large and non stopping that government splits, resignations and arrests of some officials or the government, forced new elections etc...

That is what I hope for Armenia to end up Hakob, just like the Gambia their leader took all of his cash and disappeared same goes with the Tunisian government after the Arab spring revolts, I hope it will be enough for serjik or any of those oligarchs to disappear with there money so we can at least get a decent government going or worst case scenario Tsarukyan takes over. Revolting is a terrible ass idea, one person made a video on youtube call, The Rule for Rulers, great video about power and why revolutions won't work until the inner government wants you out of your office, a good example is Thomas Sankara, although he was criticized by his human rights violation and state controlled press, he was one of the best dictators for his time and turned Upper Volta to Burkina Faso, but was overthrown, the country required little aid before the good dictator until Blaise Compaoré took power and turned the country to other African nations today, a total shiithole, the inner government was most likely dissatisfied with all the good crap going too much for the people instead of. Them.

[Haykakan]

Re: Politics in Hayastan

New elections will just bring hungrier crooks. Instill fear and force responsible governance and you will be surprised at the results. Those that can do nothing but be corrupt will be eliminated either by assassination or will leave government out of fear. The corrupt will not want to come near government and the replacements will be responsible people who want to govern instead of steal. The biggest issue would be to make sure you only take out the really bad ones that are hurting our people the most. Once there is a strict system of accountability forced upon those who govern, you will see great government.

[Zeytun]

Re: Politics in Hayastan

[DieHard69]

Re: Politics in Hayastan

New elections will just bring hungrier crooks. Instill fear and force responsible governance and you will be surprised at the results. Those that can do nothing but be corrupt will be eliminated either by assassination or will leave government out of fear. The corrupt will not want to come near government and the replacements will be responsible people who want to govern instead of steal. The biggest issue would be to make sure you only take out the really bad ones that are hurting our people the most. Once there is a strict system of accountability forced upon those who govern, you will see great government.

So what are you tryin to say, get Assassins and eliminate the most corrupt oligarchs, then what? Get the country to go under martial law?

[Hakob]

Re: Politics in Hayastan

There you go. The money....
They pay for votes in HHK centers. You guys have to understand for a family of 3 voters it will be 30-50000 drams. One month of pension.
The results are out. HHK got 70% vote. In all the voting stations there were unofficial standing overlookers who not being in voting volunteers were city or district officials. From chiefs to clerks. All working for HHK party doing the voter checking.
People have to understand that now all government stuff, city district officials, ministry stuffs, any official is a HHK member or working for HHK.
No communist legacy? My ass...
just like then, anybody in government was communist.
It's like in US every city, federal, county official either being Republican like xxxxx or working under their controll in elections and in anything.
Serj and HHK have turned "democratic" voting system to communist type closed circuit machine at core.
They succeeded in shorting and mocking public election institutions.
We are not talking just about fake or lying candidates like in US, where you have a choice to vote against.
We are talking a communism like machine that has taken control over your voting and elections.
All the judicial sustem, law enforcement system works for HHK and protecting HHK.
It's been thousands of court cases of cyvil, corporate, constitutional, financial cases in past 5-8 years where in all of them HHK party or member insterests are only protected or given relief or dismissal.
This is exact continuation of communist system but under capitalist and democratic umbrella.

[Hakob]

Re: Politics in Hayastan

Also Haykakan Jan, when you say revolutions are one way negative only, how about revolutions in Armenia (overal SSSR)?
What started in 1988 and ended in first phase in 1991 and second in 1994 I can only call revolution. There is no other definition.
It succeeded in giving Armenia an independence didn't it?
It succeeded in obtaining Artsakh independence didn't it?
It failed in establishing a free and democratic society I agree. But it achieved all that our public was aiming for. The democracy and society is in big part because public had no idea what it was and how to achieve it.
Now we need to eatsblish a free and fair society. Progressive and prosperous for everybody.
Public is slowly coming to understand what it is and how it works.
If people will stand up to change things, they will do it. Call it whatever anybody wants.
Books will describe it as revolution.
Whenever it happens, I'd rather see it soon
Otherwise if anybody thinks that things may change themselfs or HHK will somehow reform things is gravely mistaken.
If nothing done, HHK can survive long time like communists, in a very absurd society it creates.

[Hakob]

Re: Politics in Hayastan

We may think that Kiev maidan was a mistake for Ukrainian people.
But which Ukrainian people?
For the western Ukrainians, so-called Galitsians , it was not a mistake. It was something they were trying to do for past 100 years. To dominate Ukraine, change pro Russian identity and history and create a nationalist state. They succeeded because of western support.
The eastern Ukraine was not going to go along and was going to resist. Everybody knew it.
Ukraine may be in economic ruins, but revolutioneers achieved their goals. It would not be easy to tear off an economy so fully integrated with Russia and keep it going strong. It would take many years or decades for Ukraine to rebuild their economy, if at all. You see western Ukrainians are more of an agricultural society, unlike industrialized east.
Plus, Ukrainians are facing similar problems like us with oligarkhs and corruption.
I allways said that the maidan was a trap by west for Ukraine. I have been thinking about greater Ukraine.
But that trap was what exactly western Ukrainian revolutionaries and nationalists needed.

[londontsi]

Re: Politics in Hayastan

The nation is on course for mass suicide.


Irreparable situation considering the extent of the participants.


.

[Haykakan]

Re: Politics in Hayastan

So what are you tryin to say, get Assassins and eliminate the most corrupt oligarchs, then what? Get the country to go under martial law?

No Diehard, no need for martial law but that could be a result if the authorities choose to implement that in response. The point is to strike fear into those who are obscenely corrupt. This can substantially reduce the worst kinds of corruption. Martial law will not last too long if implemented by the authorities.

Hakob you need to see the world beyond communism. The monopoly on power is nothing new and most of the beloved western democracies are also monopolies. In USA it is a two party system in name only. In reality both parties serve the same interests. What we need in Armenia is accountability. Instill accountability into any system and it becomes a far better system. A system of accountability is needed so that the governors do their job and govern instead of robbing the country. Your argument for revolution are far below the level and quality of arguments I am used to seeing from you. Were not the Dark Years the result of this revolution? How about the exodus of over half the population? How about the brain drain? I suppose being forced to join the EEU was a shinning example of the independence you speak of? The things that most people are concerned with here are not important at all. Democracy, communism, monarchy, dictatorship, theocracy,...non of these things mean anything real, what matters is the living conditions of the people. What good is independence if everyone leaves as a result? What good is democracy when it serves only 1% of the people at expense of the 99%? We do not need a revolution, we do not even need most of the people in government to go away, we simply need them to be motivated to govern instead of steal. We need a national institution that ensures government runs like it should. We do not have such a institution thus we must improvise and make what we can. Taking out corruption by literally taking out the most corrupt will bring the desired results. Initially they may implement martial law of some other harsh measures but they will quickly learn that non of this will stop a assassin. In some cases the leadership is actually looking to get rid of some of the worst offenders anyways as they are endangering all of them.

[Eddo211]

Re: Politics in Hayastan

And it doesn't just effect Armenia but also the inaction in Artsakh.....a show of weakness to Turks to the East and West. An open invitation to open fire.