Agriculture

[Haykakan]

Re: Agriculture

You just made a important point. The trade exists even with the borders closed. If you open the border trade will be even easier both ways. Just as if not more importantly the open border gets us access to turkish ports and cheaper routes to Europe. Trade can lead to a great deal of other things to socially, politically , etc.. I do not have any magic answers but mutual trade wo agendas can be great for both sides. As i mentioned before it is a different matter if this is ethical or not-but ethics or no ethics as you already pointed it out-its happening anyways.

[Vrej1915]

Re: Agriculture

You would be surprised how much trade with the turk would benefit us economicaly. Like i said if things get abusive by either side you can always shut the border again. Economicaly there is great potential here but the economy is not the only thing that needs to be considered here.

I already see it in everyday life

Can you please specify what would we export more than we do now, apart electricity, profits going into russian company's pockets?
Specific examples, not generalities... maybe you know something I do not?

[Haykakan]

Re: Agriculture

You would be surprised how much trade with the turk would benefit us economicaly. Like i said if things get abusive by either side you can always shut the border again. Economicaly there is great potential here but the economy is not the only thing that needs to be considered here.

[Vrej1915]

Re: Agriculture

There is always some comparative advantage. The advantage is in relative opportunity cost. Even if the other side is better at doing everything that still means we have lower opportunity costs thus a comparative advantage. Trading with the turk can help both us and them but more so us then them. If such trade should or should not happen is more of a moral issue on our side and it is one the armenian government is ok with. Trade can begin in phases to make sure security and abusive situations do not arise. Besides trade with the turk we will gain more direct routes to europe if borders open. Armenia has much to gain here but trading with your butcher sounds bad no matter how you say it.

Unfortunately not true on a real life, even if it sounds good in theory.
Compare any price, of any agricultural output in Turkey, and in Armenia.
They will be cheaper, and will sell more cheap than cheaper, as a dumping policy to kill our economy (and as today, there will always be 'oligarks's happy to make money by thinking they are the wise guys)....
We would have quality for us, but yet again, they are not the market with such solvancy, to pay twice more for our apricot (even if much more tasty); rather than theirs... It makes much more sense to sell our product in EU or Moskow, or the Gulf states, rather than in Van....
In any open border trade situation, we would largely be the losers.
The manpower is a such small difference here, that it does not matter.
And do not forget, on the other side of the border, we do not have westernised Bolis or Smyrniya, but very neglected, poor, ignorant regions of Ocuppied Western Armenia, inhabited by mostly ill treated Kurds, living in a war situation....

Access to Europe, and open trade with Turkey are different matters.
We need end of the blockade, and more so, end of monopolies/state level corruption (something independant of the blockade, no matter how hard Sejik, Levon, Robert, or others would like us to beleive) we do not need trade with Turkey.
One does not necesserily imply the other....

[Haykakan]

Re: Agriculture

There is always some comparative advantage. The advantage is in relative opportunity cost. Even if the other side is better at doing everything that still means we have lower opportunity costs thus a comparative advantage. Trading with the turk can help both us and them but more so us then them. If such trade should or should not happen is more of a moral issue on our side and it is one the armenian government is ok with. Trade can begin in phases to make sure security and abusive situations do not arise. Besides trade with the turk we will gain more direct routes to europe if borders open. Armenia has much to gain here but trading with your butcher sounds bad no matter how you say it.

From an agricultural point of view, we have nothing competitive enough to sell them first place.
They have most of our country, that is they produce all of the fruits we do, much, much more, on an extensive mode, with modern equipment, and EU + WB + US help....
So the question is not even on the table.

[Vrej1915]

Re: Agriculture

No, I didn't mean that.
I mean global economics is is being used by " big hitters " to advance their agenda and great caution needs be exercised .
My primary question is the exporting to the turkurds.
I can understand economic benefits but think the morally it's wrong. Also it somehow gives legitimacy to them from us, it seems to me. I know the economics of not dealing with them is difficult for us and a tough move .
My question is to the better minds and more informed minds about no exporting to as$holes , so that I might gain understanding.
Artashes

From an agricultural point of view, we have nothing competitive enough to sell them first place.
They have most of our country, that is they produce all of the fruits we do, much, much more, on an extensive mode, with modern equipment, and EU + WB + US help....
So the question is not even on the table.

[Artashes]

Re: Agriculture

You mean, you would refuse to export to the EU, if you had a chance?

No, I didn't mean that.
I mean global economics is is being used by " big hitters " to advance their agenda and great caution needs be exercised .
My primary question is the exporting to the turkurds.
I can understand economic benefits but think the morally it's wrong. Also it somehow gives legitimacy to them from us, it seems to me. I know the economics of not dealing with them is difficult for us and a tough move .
My question is to the better minds and more informed minds about no exporting to as$holes , so that I might gain understanding.
Artashes

[Vrej1915]

Re: Agriculture

I certainly don't care about "monopolist importers", and definitely agree on Not importing tomatoes, apricots , nuts etc , and imfatically agree with not importing from turkurd as$holes.
My opinion , is no matter how difficult -- we should not export to to butcher squatters to the west.
Am wondering what the better and more informed minds think of NO exporting to enemy ?
Also , I understand "accommodate" global economic rules , but DO NOT trust global etc farce act.
???
Artashes

You mean, you would refuse to export to the EU, if you had a chance?

[Artashes]

Re: Agriculture

Exact.
Reason why we need to 'accomodate' global economic rules, even if it hurts some monopolist importers of ours (much more than WTO rules quoted as pretexts).
Importing tomatoes, apricot, peaches, most nuts, or grapes in Armenia must be forbidden, specially from Torkey, no matter protectionist that must sound.

I certainly don't care about "monopolist importers", and definitely agree on Not importing tomatoes, apricots , nuts etc , and imfatically agree with not importing from turkurd as$holes.
My opinion , is no matter how difficult -- we should not export to to butcher squatters to the west.
Am wondering what the better and more informed minds think of NO exporting to enemy ?
Also , I understand "accommodate" global economic rules , but DO NOT trust global etc farce act.
???
Artashes

[Vrej1915]

Re: Agriculture

The key here is in comparative advantage and specialization. Armenia needs to enhance whatever comparative advantages she in order for her to be competative in global markets. It is better to import things you have a comparative disadvantage in and to export things you have a comparative advantage in. Free trade is based on specialization and comparative advantage. One of Armenia's problems is cheap and efficient access to world markets and the turkish blockade makes this a bigger problem. Normally self reliance is not a efficient econmomic strategy but then again there is nothing normal about this part of the world.

Exact.
Reason why we need to 'accomodate' global economic rules, even if it hurts some monopolist importers of ours (much more than WTO rules quoted as pretexts).
Importing tomatoes, apricot, peaches, most nuts, or grapes in Armenia must be forbidden, specially from Torkey, no matter protectionist that must sound.