Thoughts on Tashnagtsootyoon...

[Andranik]

[QUOTE=A.R.]go to Artsakh and tell them you are a "Tashnag basher"
and they will spit in your face...QUOTE]

who will spit in who's face? The ARF party's standing in Artsakh as well as Armenia is not very high. The fact of historical matter remains, that Artsakh would have been liberated and in Armenian hands back in 1918 when General Andranik was in Sushi slaughtering all the Turks in his path, only to be called back by the Dashnak Committe from Yerevan. Another fact of reality is that after 70 years of calling for a free and independent Armenia, it was the ARF party which opposed the independence of Soviet Armenia, and the also initially opposed the whole Karabakh movement. Moreover, the recent free and fair elections within Mountainous Karabakh shows what the Armenian people think of the Dashnak Party.

[Andranik]

How was the 88 Earthquake not natural, I keep hearing that. Any clues?

One theory states that it was an underground bomb

[winoman]

One theory states that it was an underground bomb

I have a theory for ya...it was an earthquake...mother nature as it were - as have been ocuring in those parts for millions of years. Where did all those mountains come from eh? Atlantic plate pushing up against the European land mass, volacanos (check the area around Lake Van for instance) and so on and so forth...its not as though such things were invented yesterday...and it not as if such things could be engineered without a great deal of evidence (for instance there are both global earthquake as well as global (underground explosion) nuclear monitoring stations throughout the globe and they emit quite distinct signatures...etc. I'm also quite baffled by what motivation one (and who?) might have to do such a thing...again I supose its those aliens in Yamukas again eh?

[Andranik]

I have a theory for ya...it was an earthquake...mother nature as it were - as have been ocuring in those parts for millions of years. Where did all those mountains come from eh? Atlantic plate pushing up against the European land mass, volacanos (check the area around Lake Van for instance) and so on and so forth...its not as though such things were invented yesterday...and it not as if such things could be engineered without a great deal of evidence (for instance there are both global earthquake as well as global (underground explosion) nuclear monitoring stations throughout the globe and they emit quite distinct signatures...etc. I'm also quite baffled by what motivation one (and who?) might have to do such a thing...again I supose its those aliens in Yamukas again eh?

I didn't say that was my theory, I said it was one of the theory's out there. As for who could have done it, the Russians very well could have done it. And why not? with Armenians fighting against the Azeris, it was the perfect opportunity to quell the Armenian calls for independence.

[nakharar]

I didn't say that was my theory, I said it was one of the theory's out there. As for who could have done it, the Russians very well could have done it. And why not? with Armenians fighting against the Azeris, it was the perfect opportunity to quell the Armenian calls for independence.

Do you know how many nuclear bombs you need just to generate a fraction of a 7.0 scale earthquake?

Thousands upon thousands.

Not to mention the impossible task of burying all these bombs miles deep near the faultline.

[Andranik]

Church dis-unity

Recent news emanating from the Holy See of Cilicia, in Antelias, is most disconcerting, to say the least. They are disturbing, and they may serve as another nail in the coffin of church unity. Indeed, an encyclical signed by His Holiness Aram I comes to create another fait-accompli in the ever growing process of the division within the Armenian Church. This new decree comes to establish a new prelacy in Canada, something long in the making for the observers of the discrepancy between the words and deeds of the powers-to-be in Antelias.


When the new Diocese under Etchmiadzine jurisdiction was formed in Canada, the agents of division held on to their turf and refused to join the new diocese and gradually, and steadily, they worked their way into establishing new parishes in growing Canadian-Armenian communities. The last battle was fought in the tiny community of Vancouver, where a handful of Armenians were "endowed" with two churches, courtesy of usurpers of Antelias.


The next step that followed was the formation of a vicarage, under the auspices of the Eastern Prelacy, and now we face the inevitable reality of a separate Prelacy, under the jurisdiction of Antelias and opposed to the legitimate Diocese under the jurisdiction of the Catholicos of all Armenians, at Etchmiadzine.


This process lasted a long period, outliving at least the terms of two Catholicoses in Antelias. The actors have come and left the scene, but the conspiracy of division remained in place as the constant policy of Tashnag-dominated church in Antelias.


Those who have had the opportunity of hearing or reading Aram Iþs thunderous speeches and sermons remember his all too familiar theme that "the Armenian Church is one and united", while, at the same time undermining the foundation of that very same unity by expending new parishes and churches in the Gulf countries, discrediting the Mother See at the World Council of Churches and other international forums, and upstaging His Holiness Karekin II, at every single trip, action and occasion.


Ever since the collapse of the Soviet Empire, Antelias and its masters have run out of every conceivable excuse that they are fighting the ungodly Communist rule, which controls Etchmiadzine. Since Armenia’s independence Antelias leaders have shown their true colors by holding on to the divided section of the church, both as political pawn and cash cow. It is an open secret that the Tashnag party has full control of the church finances and also uses the captive church as a political leverage to score selfish gains in Armenia.

During Ter Petrossian's unwarranted campaign to alienate and destroy the traditional political parties (and particularly the Tashnag party) clergy in Antelias obediently served their masters' political agenda.


The announcement at Etchmiadzine, regarding the news of the new prelacy in Canada, underscores the limits of arrogance that Antelias demonstrates in its actions when it points that the Mother See "had not been notified officially" about this illegitimate action.


This action dashes all hopes of witnessing unity within the Armenian Church anytime soon.


With the election of Aram I, the course of church unity has taken an adverse turn and there seems to be no light at the end of the tunnel. One of the casualties of the schism within our church is the adoption of the new bylaws, which would guide the church into the 21st Century and beyond. As long as Antelias remains at loggerheads with the Mother See, no universally acceptable bylaws can be adopted to be uniformly applied in all communities and levels of church hierarchy; that in turn leaves the door open to any self-indulging clergyman to defy church authority, as it happened recently in Moscow.


Fortunately a dynamic, young, wise and principled pontiff has been elected to the throne of St. Gregory the Illuminator to guard vigorously the authority and supremacy of the Mother See at Etchmiadzine.


Antelias and the Tashnags seem to have determined to keep the Armenian Church divided. The leadership within the Etchmiadzine camp cannot escape also the blame, first for the internecine struggles, clashes of egos and, above all, lacking leadership in this fight imposed on our church.


Furthermore, here in America, we were lulled into believing that church unity was around the corner, while the dissident church was in the process of consolidating its gains and looking for new prey. For over a quarter century, unity committees continued to play the charade of negotiations, and the skeptics were castigated as non-believers in church unity. A group of naive ? perhaps well-intentioned ? leaders negotiated with the Prelacy representatives, believing that the church could be reunited on these shores while the rift was growing worldwide. The Diocesan representatives were not awakened until some of the Prelacy messengers themselves blew the whistle that the party had charged them with the mission of giving the runaround to the negotiating group and that they never intended to reach an equitable solution to the division. The Diocese did not educate its followers on the issues dividing our church, while any member of the dissident church was well informed and mobilized to follow the leadership in its mischievous course.


Even more, those in the media who warned the public about the futility and pitfalls of the deceptive negotiations were asked not to interject "partisan politics" or "old country feuds in our church", thus playing into the hands of a well-disciplined and highly motivated group of people who had determined to take over the entire Armenian Church, to use it for their political ends.


Will this new shock serve as a wake up call to our pundits? We seriously doubt it.


The formation of a new prelacy in Canada is another blow to church unity, further deepening the division in the Armenian Church.


It seems that the Holy See at Etchmiadzine and its followers are in for a long and ugly battle to restore and preserve the unity of the Armenian Church.


Yervand Azatian , Armenian Mirror Spectator

[nakharar]

There is no future for Antelias. They are just resorting to these tactics to delay the inevitable. I think Aram I knows that there is no way of stopping the decrease of the Armenian population of Lebanon. The same goes for Istanbul and Jerusalem which are even in a more perilous state. Sooner or later they will all be dissolved.

[Dave]

btw the Catholicos is going to visit Canada in 2 months.

And the new prelacy building is already built. It is located next to the tashnag community center, the church, and the school.

http://www.armenianprelacy.ca/

Do not forget that the Catholicosate of Sis is the original one, because when Armenians moved to Cilicia, the Armenian church followed. Another Catholicosate was established later on in Echmiadzin, when the Cilician Armenian rule was weakening.

The Patriarchate of Jerusalem was also established approximately the same time.

The worst is the Patriarchate of Constantinople. It was established after an invitation of the Ottoman Sultan Mehmed II, in order to further seperate the Armenian people and attract Armenians in Constantinople.

[Andranik]

btw the Catholicos is going to visit Canada in 2 months.

Do not forget that the Catholicosate of Sis is the original one, because when Armenians moved to Cilicia, the Armenian church followed. Another Catholicosate was established later on in Echmiadzin, when the Cilician Armenian rule was weakening.

the Catholicosate of Sis (currently in Antelias) is a Business. Those who run that business is the Dashnak Party. There is only 1 Armenian people, and only 1 catholicos of all Armenians, and his holiness resides on Armenias sacred soil in Ethmiatzin.

[Dave]

Sorry, but I fail to understand how the Cilician Catholicosate is a business. You call it a business just because iit is dominated by Tashnags?

I live in Montreal, Canada. Let us see what Armenians did in the 90th anniversary of the Armenian Genocide.

The Tashnags and the partisans and priests of the Cilician Catholicosate went to Ottawa to protest in front of the Turkish embassy. They did a commemoration mass only once or twice.

The other Armenians and the partisans and priests of the Echmiadzin Catholicosate went to cry in the Saint-Joseph oratory of Mount Royal... They did it 2-3 days or so in a row. One of those masses even took place during the afternoon of April 24 - the same day Tashnags and pro-Antilias Armenians went to protest in Ottawa. What does that mean to you?

Who would I rather join? Armenians who weep and mourn in a church that isn't even Armenian, or Armenians who do one major commemoration event in their own churches, and then go to protest in Ottawa?

Even though some might think protests are useless, crying and asking help from God is even more useless.