Why Turkey will never be admitted into the European Union

[Siamanto]

Re: Why Turkey will never be admitted into the European Union

Sarkozy's J-e-w-ish roots shape his outlook on life and his approach to politics.

LOL You remind me of the *urkish media who wrote that he had *urkish/Greek roots or something like that.
His maternal Grandfather is a j-e-w from Salonique who converted to Catholicism. As we are sharing trivia, let's also remember that his family became "noble" after his ancestor courageouly fought the *urks in Hungary.
He's close to his Hungarian roots and your statement sounds a bit...

His seems to be very fond of the criminal "Neoconservative" Kabal running the show in Washington DC. His anti-Russian anti-Iranian sentiments are quite pronounced. There is also a danger that he might drag France into the bogus "War on Terror" as well. As a result, his political rhetoric and his foreign policy formulations may in the longterm be harmful to Armenia's interests.

So, don't be surprised if in the future Sarkozy "moderates" his anti-Turkish stance instead. Sarkozy or no Sarkozy, Turks would have never been admitted into Europe. Thus, in the big picture, Sarkoz'y win is a potential setback for European politics, not to mention Russian-Iranian-Armenian interests.

I hope I'm wrong. I guess only time will tell.

You may be wrong and I think that you are overreacting. I may be wrong, but my reply to Lucin did probably cover the above.

I will simply add that Segolene Royal - who was my candidate - was NOT less anti-Iranian; she was less anti-Turk but more pro-Russian.
As for the European policy towards Russia, I don't think that Sarkozy will have a great influence....would Merkel-Royal have been a better combination? Not obvious.


Note: I have chosen to auto censor the words "*urk," "*urkish" or *urkic" because it is commonly perceived as unpleasant and offending, evokes unpleasant emotions and imagery and is pregnant with immoral and evil connotations

[TomServo]

Re: Why Turkey will never be admitted into the European Union

Patrick Devedjian for President! It could happen.

[Siamanto]

Re: Why Turkey will never be admitted into the European Union

Patrick Devedjian for President! It could happen.

I don't agree with his political views but he's very agile - i.e. mentally - and manages to skillfully and with calm find arguments to defend his positions - or the positions of his party. He's also quick. He is a "smart" politician.

[Armenian]

Re: Why Turkey will never be admitted into the European Union

Sarkozy Elects Top Diplomat: A Pro-Turkish J-e-w Who Fully Supports the Illegal War Being Waged by Neocons in Iraq and Afghanistan

To thank the blind idiots in the Armenian community who were kissing his ass for a long time the newly elected French president just appointed a strongly pro-Turkish J-e-w as Foreign Minister of France.

Time will only tell how damaging this election was for Western Europe.

These strange turn of events in Paris also makes me wonder the following: it is well known that the riots that occurred in France during the past couple of years essentially helped Sarkozy win this election. THus, I ask: Were these riots incited by the authorities (lead by Sarkozy of course) for this very purpose, namely to help elect the current leadership.

Nonetheless, the current Neocon friendly leadership has boldly emerged within the very heartland of Europe - especially at a time when Europe is desperately trying to define itself and set the foundations of its future?

This Kouchner garbage supposedly became a "humanitarian" as a result of what happened to his relatives in Auschwitz. Nevertheless, this so-called humanitarian fully supports the illegal wars currently being waged by his Washington DC based Neocon ideologues. Needless to say, as a result of the Kouchners of this world, Iraq today is the epicenter of one of the bloodiest man-made humanitarian disasters in the world. This Kouchner character also wants to increase France's role in Afghanistan conflict, clearly signaling that he would willing join the bogus "war on terror" circus orchestrated by Neocons. And last but not least, this so-called humanitarian also considers the state of Turkey to be fully worthy of being called a European nation, of course this is most probably due to Turkey's exemplary "humanitarian" record that which the humanitarian Kouchner seems to champion.

I never expected this type of a situation occurring within France, especially at a very crucial time period such at this. Even from the start, however, I somehow felt uneasy about this Sarkozy character. And I could not understand how shallow and shortsighted his Armenian supporters were being. I fear that this new political environment within Paris will in the longterm prove harmful to Armenian national interests and to the national interests of Armenia's closest regional partners, Russia and Iran.

Therefore, let's not be surprised if in the near future Sarkozy "moderates" his anti-Turkish stance. Let's not be surprised if Paris begins to actively support the attacks against Russia and Iran by Washington DC, Tel Aviv and London. And let's not be surprised if Paris willingly enters the greater Neocon agenda.

Armenian

Sarkozy’s Top Diplomat: Undiplomatic Opposite

BERNARD KOUCHNER, France’s new top diplomat, would never describe himself as diplomatic. Named as foreign minister, Mr. Kouchner is in many ways the political opposite of his new boss, President Nicolas Sarkozy. Both are pro-American, but Mr. Sarkozy is conservative while Mr. Kouchner is a man of the left. Mr. Sarkozy opposed the American invasion of Iraq, while Mr. Kouchner, unlike most of the political elite on both the right and the left here, believed that military intervention was justified to overthrow Saddam Hussein. Mr. Sarkozy opposes Turkey’s entry into the European Union; Mr. Kouchner supports it.

“It’s an amazing appointment, a stunning event in French foreign policy,” said Richard C. Holbrooke, the former American ambassador to the United Nations and one of Mr. Kouchner’s closest friends. “He’s motivated by an antitotalitarian drive, whether he sees injustice from the left or the right. It will be very positive for U.S.-French relations because he does not come with a visceral anger towards the American ‘hyperpower.’ ”

Mr. Kouchner, a 67-year-old gastroenterologist, earned his reputation as the star of humanitarian relief by challenging authority, destroying convention, insulting opponents and making up rules along the way. “To change the law, you sometimes have to break the law,” he likes to say. “An unguided missile,” is how Boutros Boutros-Ghali, the former United Nations secretary general, once described him. But Mr. Kouchner, who has served as France’s health minister and the United Nations’ administrator for Kosovo, has also been the country’s most popular politician on the left over the years.

Elegant, dapper, with movie-star looks despite his age, Mr. Kouchner is half of one of France’s leading power couples. His longtime partner, Christine Ockrent, is probably France’s best-known female television journalist. They entertain regularly from their grand duplex apartment overlooking the Luxembourg Garden; they always get the best restaurant tables. They have been tarred by their critics with the label “gauche caviar,” Champagne-and-caviar socialism at its worst. Mr. Kouchner intimately addresses women — and men — as “my dear.” His passion and confidence in speaking English help compensate for his charming but sometimes excruciating mistakes.

By naming him and three other leftists to his conservative government, Mr. Sarkozy fulfilled his promise that his tenure would be one of “openness,” while stripping the Socialist Party of one of its icons just weeks before French voters choose an entirely new Parliament. (Accepting the job of foreign minister got him drummed out of the Socialist Party on Friday.) Mr. Sarkozy is also signaling that he is serious about putting both human rights and outreach to the United States at the core of his foreign policy. Mr. Kouchner is as close as a Frenchman comes to being pro-American.

EVEN Mr. Kouchner, a co-founder of the Nobel Prize-winning relief organization Doctors Without Borders, appreciates the novelty of his appointment. “This is a bit unusual,” he confessed Friday in his first remarks at the Foreign Ministry. He added that he “would not have done it” had he not felt the conviction “to serve our country.”

Contrary to long-held Gaullist French policy, which evaluates crises through the lens of France’s national interests, Mr. Kouchner sees things through a humanitarian perspective. He was an effective early advocate of “humanitarian intervention” — the right to interfere in another country’s affairs if human rights are being abused.

Mr. Kouchner defended military intervention against Mr. Hussein on humanitarian grounds, not because Iraq might be seeking unconventional weapons. “It was a question of overthrowing an evil dictator, and it was right to intervene,” Mr. Kouchner said in 2004.

He has said that Turkey is part of Europe and deserves to join the European Union; Mr. Sarkozy has said that Turkey is part of Asia, not Europe, and should never become a member.

Mr. Kouchner appears to support the maintenance of a strong international — and French — presence in Afghanistan to bring stability to the country; Mr. Sarkozy has promised that French troops will not stay there forever.

“On Turkey, the withdrawal of troops from Afghanistan, the third world and Africa, we’re not close,” Mr. Kouchner acknowledged in a telephone interview. “I’m against his idea of selective immigration. On other issues — the Middle East, on the need for an alliance with America, on the role of France in Europe — we’re very close.”

But it is no secret that Mr. Kouchner has been restless to get back onto the global stage in a starring role, particularly after he was passed over for the job of director of the World Health Organization and as the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees. He said he turned down the chance to head a new Ministry of Immigration and National Identity when Mr. Sarkozy floated the idea earlier this year. “I refused completely because I am against this idea,” Mr. Kouchner said in the interview.

CHARMING, outspoken, impulsive and at times egotistical, Mr. Kouchner even once thought of running for president himself. Asked in an interview in 2004 whether anyone could beat Mr. Sarkozy, he replied in English, “Me, I believe.” He added, “I am not so arrogant to say I’m serious, but I’m more popular than he is!”

But like his new boss, Mr. Kouchner is hard-charging, impatient, abrasive, media-shrewd and immune to verbal attack. “I have no recipe except one in politics: to continue, to continue, to be obstinate, to be obstinate, to never abandon an issue as long as there remains a small shred of hope,” he said. During the political campaign, the Socialist presidential candidate, Ségolène Royal, largely ignored Mr. Kouchner, but Mr. Sarkozy did not. The two men talked regularly, even though Mr. Kouchner openly criticized the candidate. At one point, he called Mr. Sarkozy a “man who feels no shame,” for his courting of the extreme right. When Mr. Sarkozy said that pedophilia was most likely a genetic flaw, Mr. Kouchner said the statement was “extraordinarily dangerous, entirely irresponsible.”

Mr. Kouchner has always dismissed criticism that his publicity-grabbing techniques can be both unseemly and laughable. In the early 1990s, for example, when he was filmed wading ashore in Somalia carrying sacks of rice provided by French schoolchildren for the starving, he justified the stunt, saying, “I prefer cameras to bazookas.”

BOTH Mr. Sarkozy and Mr. Kouchner in a sense are outsiders. Mr. Sarkozy, who is 15 years his junior, is the son of a Hungarian immigrant; one of his grandparents was xxxish. Mr. Kouchner’s paternal grandparents were Russian-born xxxs who escaped the pogroms by emigrating to France, but perished decades later in Auschwitz. He has said that their deaths contributed to his passion for intervention in humanitarian crises and the promotion of human rights.

“I can’t stand the fact that a man is assassinated, that a woman is abused, that a child is beaten up,” he wrote in his 1995 memoir, “What I Believe.”

“Why am I getting indignant? My grandparents died in Auschwitz, and for years no one dared or wanted to tell me. I found out.” He continued: “In a mixed family that is not religious it is even worse: you are either twice as xxxish, or half xxxish. As a result, you react like a tormented soul in the face of oppression.”

Longtime friends of Mr. Kouchner are delighted for him, but worried that his blunt-speaking, off-the-cuff style may clash with that of his new boss. “Sarkozy’s views are totally different from those of Bernard,” said Max Recamier, one of the doctors with whom Mr. Kouchner founded Doctors Without Borders. “He hesitated a lot before accepting. But what drives him is not a hunger for power but a passion for promoting justice and easing suffering in the world. And let’s face it, he’s 67 now. He’s mellowed — like a good wine.”

Link: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/19/wo...9kouchner.html

[Armenian]

Re: Why Turkey will never be admitted into the European Union

The following is what I written within the HAM website last week about Sarkozy's rise as president of France.

In my opinion, Armenians who are applauding Sarkozy's win in France because of his 'anti-Turkish' rhetoric are being somewhat shortsighted and naive.



It is quite natural to assume that Sarkozy's J-e-wish roots would have helped shape his overall outlook on life and his approach to politics. It is also obvious that this man in question seems to be very fond of the criminal "Neoconservative" Kabal running the show in Washington DC. Moreover, his anti-Russian, anti-Iranian sentiments are quite pronounced within his political rhetoric. There is also a danger that he might eventually drag France into the bogus "War on Terror" as well.

Take a close look at his recent comment about Russia and America:

In an interview ahead of the May 6 runoff, Sarkozy said, "If you asked me which of the [two] countries France will have closer relations with - the United States or Russia, known to us for its Chechen war -'the U.S.' would be my answer."

After the global chaos and destruction that has been created by the bloodthirsty Kabal in Washington DC how dare this Sarkozy character complain about Russian's actions within Chechnya? Does anyone else see how absurd of a comment this is by him, especially coming from a man that is to lead France?

As a result, I fear that his political rhetoric and his foreign policy formulations may in the longterm be actually harmful to Armenia's interests. So, let's not be surprised if in the future Sarkozy "moderates" his anti-Turkish stance - due his greater fears/paranoia over the Arab/Persian Muslim world and his very warm sentiment towards the Kabal in Washington DC. Sarkozy or no Sarkozy Turks would have never been admitted into the European Union. Thus, in the big picture, Sarkozy's win is a potential setback for European politics, not to mention Russian, Iranian and Armenian interests.

I hope I'm wrong but only time will tell.

In related news from Moscow:

Russian analysts warily optimistic over Sarkozy win

Nicolas Sarkozy's victory in France's presidential polls Sunday is unlikely to influence the country's traditionally amicable relations with Russia, but they may lack warmth, Russian analysts said in post-election comments. Conservative Sarkozy won 53% of the vote, against 47% for Socialist Segolene Royal. Sarkozy, who served as finance and interior minister in Jacques Chirac's outgoing government, is an advocate of liberal economic reforms and tough policies on crime and immigration. He opposes further European Union expansion, but is a staunch champion of trans-Atlantic integration. His vision for France's policy regarding Russia is not immediately clear. In an interview ahead of the May 6 runoff, Sarkozy said, "If you asked me which of the [two] countries France will have closer relations with - the United States or Russia, known to us for its Chechen war -'the U.S.' would be my answer."

Speaking to Europe 1 radio, he said that if elected France's next president, he would raise the issue with President Vladimir Putin, as "Russian democracy has progress to make."

The remarks alerted France watchers in Russia, making some predict a chill in the relations with the Kremlin, accused by human rights organizations of abuses in Chechnya, where Moscow has been intermittently waging a war against separatist militants since 1994. Leonid xxxxsky, second in charge of the international relations committee in parliament's State Duma lower house, described Sarkozy's pronouncements on Russia as "dubious."

Strategic Analysis Institute Director Alexander Konovalov, however, downplayed their possible impact on relations between the two countries: "Both Sarkozy and Royal have taken issue with Russia on human rights and European values. But we'll remain among France's major partners, as has historically been the case."

Vyacheslav Nikonov, head of the Politika think tank, said that under Sarkozy, relations will, perhaps, lack the warmth of his predecessor, Chirac.

"Unlike Jacques Chirac, Sarkozy has no close personal relations with the Russian leadership," Nikonov said. "There is no reason therefore to expect a quick rapprochement between Russia and France, especially given that Russia's relations with NATO and the European Union, of which France is part, are far from brilliant."

Chirac has been friends with Putin, and both were allied in their opposition to the U.S. invasion of Iraq in 2003. But Sarkozy, belonging to the same Conservative UMP party as Chirac, seeks to repair the trans-Atlantic rift caused by the Iraq war, and has already signaled to President George W. Bush that Washington could rely on the friendship of France. According to International Security Center Director Alexei Arbatov, "France will be pursuing closer cooperation between the European Union and the U.S., and will support the U.S. in its increasingly aggressive, heavy handed global policies."

Bernard Owen, the head of France's Comparative Elections Study Center, whose own political science research focuses on Russia, said major changes in French-Russian relations are unlikely as "Russia is an important country and one to be reckoned with."

He put Sarkozy's comments on Chechnya down to his lack of knowledge of the real situation.

"Me personally, I think he is not informed well enough about developments in Chechnya," Owen said in a RIA Novosti interview. Senior Russian lawmakers also said French-Russian relations are unlikely to suffer under Sarkozy, but predicted his pro-American stance would make France less independent in its international policies.

"Sarkozy's victory gives reason to believe relations between Russia and France will be at least as steady, but I hope they will develop further," said the speaker of Russia's lower house, Boris Gryzlov. He is the leader of the pro-Kremlin United Russia party, with which Sarkozy's Union pour un Mouvement Populaire has long-standing ties. UMP representatives attended United Russia's national congress last December, at which Gryzlov's party approved an action plan in the lead up to a legislative election set for late 2007.

In France, however, quite a few people seem concerned about where Sarkozy's tough style may leave them. His Socialist rival warned ahead of the runoff ballot that the 52-year-old hardliner would bring in a climate of brutality if elected. Indeed, France's new leader has been hugely unpopular with North African immigrants since he ordered the violent suppression of riots in the fall of 2005 when serving as interior minister. Following Sarkozy's election this Sunday, youths from immigrant communities torched cars and clashed with police in protest. Overnight, about 35 cars were reportedly set on fire in Paris alone, and 79 people were detained for taking part in the protests. According to official French statistics, a total of 172 automobiles were set alight in the central Ile de France province.

Source: http://en.rian.ru/russia/20070507/65039060.html

[Kuja]

Re: Why Turkey will never be admitted into the European Union

Sarkozy seems determined.I dont believe he will change just for USA.

[KarotheGreat]

Re: Why Turkey will never be admitted into the European Union

Who let this qunadz in our fourm, hope he gets his ass band soon. And do you know that the people of europe don't want Turkey in it nor do the countries. lol

[Marie]

Re: Why Turkey will never be admitted into the European Union

maybe cuz its a terrorist state..

[Neli]

Re: Why Turkey will never be admitted into the European Union

The American political establishment with their lap dogs in England along with their Zionist benefactors worldwide, are the single most dangerous threat to European nations. One of the many strategic reasons why Washington has been trying hard to promote Turkish integration within Europe is to undermine Europe's great potential -- one that could theoretically surpass the political primacy America is enjoying today. The other major reason why Washington relentlessly promotes the Turkish issues is because of Ankara's close geo-strategic relationship with Tel-Aviv. Concurrently, Washington's utter fear of a Russian resurgence, along with Moscow's close regional allies, slowly rising from their Soviet ashes, is also prompting Washington to undermine Russian spheres of influences worldwide. This profound fear of Russia reestablishing its economic and military power worldwide is precisely why Washington has been providing support for such nations as Bosnia, Albania, Turkey, Azerbaijan, Georgia, Uzbekistan, Pakistan and indirectly supporting the bloody rebellion within Chechnya.

Regarding Turkey's EU bid: needless to say, it would be suicidal for Europe to incorporate the nation of Turkey within its structures. Besides the obvious fact that Turkey is a relatively primitive nation with an Islamic heritage and a bloody past, Turkey has serious geo-political problems with virtually everyone of it's neighbors. Turkey has serious territorial disputes with Armenians, Greeks, Cypriots, Iranians and Syrians. Moreover, Turkey has serious internal domestic issues with its Kurdish population and resurging Islamic fundamentalists. I do not believe that European nations are so stupid as to turn these Turkish "terminal ailments" into European ones. No European nation, however liberal, is foolish enough to consciously inflict itself with the aforementioned Turkish problems. Despite all your well founded concerns, I have not see a single tangible evidence that the European Union is truly preparing to incorporate Turkey within its organization. The real problem, or dilemma, for Europe is that it needs Turkey as a buffer nation strategically situated at the crossroads of the Eurasian continent. Moreover, Turkey's large armed forces is also important for the military establishment and defense industry of Europe. Considering the aforementioned, it is no surprise that official European policy is to keep Turkey at an arms length -- that is, close but not too close.

Throughout the past twenty years or so, every time Turkey got close in its bid to join the European Union, some European nation throws a "block" that thereby delays Turkey's "application process" for many years. European Union nations have utilized many of these diplomatic "blocks" to keep Turkey at a safe distance. Just to mention a few: the Armenian Genocide issue comes up periodically, at opportune times, to undermine Turkeys international stature; the plight of the Kurds is also being constantly used as a means of highlighting Turkey's severe human rights abuses; the situation within Turkish occupied northern Cyprus and the problems with Greece regarding the disputed islands are also major geo-political issues that European Union use to undermine Turkish entry bids. More recently, even the Turkish economic blockade of the Armenian Republic was brought up by European officials as a 'problem'.

However, one can rightfully ask: what is the likelihood of Turkey joining the European Union 'after' it comprehensively resolves all its internal and external problems? The only logical answer to that rhetorical question that I can see is the following: if Turkey "comprehensively and completely" solved all its geo-political and socio-political problems -- there would be no Turkey left to speak of. Large portions of disputed lands within Turkey would return to its rightful owners and the Kurds will have independence. Turkey exists today as a superficial nation, much similar to the Zionist state of Israel, that was the artificial byproduct of several Europe nations at the end of the First World War. Turkey will eventually disintegrate and disappear into the pages of history -- it is only a matter of time. Europeans realize this and, thus, will never accept such a cancerous tumor within their domain.

When you people hear official European comments insinuating that Turkey will eventually join the European Union, realize that it is just a diplomatic chess game that is being played with Turkey. The Turks do realize this as well, which is why there is growing public sentiments within Turkey today that wants their government to give up on their 'futile' effort in pursing a membership within European Union. Again, I need to reiterate that Europe needs Turkey as a geo-strategic buffer and as a consumer state within the foreseeable future. Therefore, it will do its best not to completely alienate Ankara. However, within this diplomatic chess game, the real danger comes from Washington and London along with their Zionist parasites. If Washington and London are given the opportunity of dictating or heavily influencing domestic and foreign policy of Europe - it will become death of Europe and western civilization as we know it. My only hope for the survival of Europe and, thus, western civilization, is for the nations of France, Germany and Russia to somehow consolidate their resources and politically unite.

THAT'S WRIGHT

[Neli]

Re: Why Turkey will never be admitted into the European Union

That's Wright