The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

[TomServo]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

Hakob - who has never been to either Kars or Gyumri - or seen the road between the two - or seen the road between Erzurum and Kars. Unlike a lot of Armenians who seem to always profess knowledge of things they know nothing about, I've seen the roads on each side of the border having been as close to the border on each side as the border posts (of course those on the "Armenian" side are all manned by Russians and fly the Russian flag). The road on the Turkish side (Tiknis/Kalkankalesi to Akyaka to Kars), is modern and in superb condition, there is also the railway - still maintained - that runs right up to the border, in Armenia the road to the border crossing on the Armenian side is still well maintained and perfectly servicable - and it too has a railway though on a different gauge. The line of the border at Gyumri is fully controlled by Russia and its forces can do whatever they like (as in the recent case of them setting up road blocks inside Armenia) without needing permission from Armenian authorities. At the time this hapened the Erzurum-Kars railway was closed for its conversion to a high-speed railway and the road at the Sarikamish pass was being reworked. My source was a Kars resident who knows about such things and has no reason to lie about them and he mentioned the story in passing when we were talking about the airport being closed. The equipment was something large and was needed very urgently by some of the contractors, but I no longer remember what specific piece of equipment it was that he mentioned or, after it had crossed the border, if it arrived at Kars by road or railway.

It is not correct to say that Armenia is Russia's poodle - a poodle implies a dog that is well-treated like a pet. Armenia is Russia's mongrel dog, kept tied-up in the back yard, occasionally kicked, occasionally fed: a process that has gone on for so long that the dog no can longer tell the difference and appreciates both as signs that it is being noticed and is thus of some importance to its master.

A sad state of affairs.

These guys don't want to hear it, though.

[Artashes]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

A sad state of affairs.

These guys don't want to hear it, though.

Your right on both accounts.
Armenia is in a sad state of affairs.
And right again, we don't want to hear turkish propaganda.
Every concerned member of this forum recognizes how sad our state of affairs are. We are talking amongst ourselves trying our utmost to come up with solutions. Armenian forum... Get it?
Your obvious agreement with that negative spewing vermin causes me to ask this question...
... Who do you serve - o - tom

[TomServo]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

... Who do you serve - o - tom

The international bankers.

And the Vatican.

[Artashes]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

The international bankers.

And the Vatican.

The above post is in reply to my question... Who do you serve - o - tom.
I asked the question because of Tom - serve - o's regular agreement with scum the cat.
Although one might take the reply as jest, I think in reality it's fairly accurate but forgot to say the turk.
Read scum the cats posts & Tommy's post. One actually doesn't have to parse the words and agreements to hard to see the pattern. It may take time as they both have thousands of posts.
Unfortunately not many of merit.

[TomServo]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

I take all your replies as jest, Arty.

[Hakob]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

Your right on both accounts.
Armenia is in a sad state of affairs.
And right again, we don't want to hear turkish propaganda.
Every concerned member of this forum recognizes how sad our state of affairs are. We are talking amongst ourselves trying our utmost to come up with solutions. Armenian forum... Get it?
Your obvious agreement with that negative spewing vermin causes me to ask this question...
... Who do you serve - o - tom

Artashes, There is a big diffrence between concerns of economic hardship/problems and moral decay that some politicians or activists and some members here are displaying. And some idiots, that are using those to advance anti Armenianism(be it turk or any other) or self interests. Wasn't it in turkey that money was being devalued so much that a pair of shoes cost 1000000 liras a few decades ago? (speaking about turkey, it has not done with it's reckoning. Kurdish problem has not run it's course yet, we will see in a couple of decades). Hasn't any country gone tru hardships in history? Ours is only 25 year old. We are in blockade and some don't want to get it in their thick heads that fact. We don't have oil, or sea like our neighbours. But even that, those neigbours (population)are not better off than us. Look around. What's happining around us. in middle east. Are they better off? Greace, Bulgaria, Ruminia and some. Are they better off? Given not being in blockade and locked in mortal feud with enemies. People blindly look at conditions in europe and compare as if it was not there the horriffic destraction not seen in history just a few decades ago(twice in 30 years)? Was not europe and US just mere 80 years ago in hunger and destitute in ressecion? A country's or nation's time is not determined with just human lifespan.
Most tend to forget that our situation comes from centuries of muslim destraction,(which europe will soon have the taste of) where we actually have done exellent job suviving as a nation, and are on the road to building a bright future. Current times are the most favorable for us in past 500 years. And we will do good.
People call it a russian occupation. How many countries does US have military bases? What do we call those? Is an economic block an occupation? What about the others? Don't they effect the laws and conduct of member countires? Hasn't US dictated about internal and external policies to it's economic partners for decades(sometimes very rudely)? Aren't those countries under financial controll?

[Artashes]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

And yes on USA manipulative agenda in the guise of financial prosperity. Or in the guise of caring for another countries people. They used the pretext of Syria gassing it's own people to destabilize & sow chaos. They are at least as manipulative as Russia.
I'm told by by special boots on the ground that the real reason for afghan op was so special teams could hunt specific powerful clans and individuals. They (USA) have in fact been highly successful in that indeavor. All the other propaganda about actually caring (sick) for the poor population was a cover. Most of the boots over their (or many) were sincere if not misguided.
The USA & western company play an extremely fraudulent & heartless game (sham).

[Hakob]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

Artashes, There is a big diffrence between concerns of economic hardship/problems and moral decay that some politicians or activists and some members here are displaying. And some idiots, that are using those to advance anti Armenianism(be it turk or any other) or self interests. Wasn't it in turkey that money was being devalued so much that a pair of shoes cost 1000000 liras a few decades ago? (speaking about turkey, it has not done with it's reckoning. Kurdish problem has not run it's course yet, we will see in a couple of decades). Hasn't any country gone tru hardships in history? Ours is only 25 year old. We are in blockade and some don't want to get it in their thick heads that fact. We don't have oil, or sea like our neighbours. But even that, those neigbours (population)are not better off than us. Look around. What's happining around us. in middle east. Are they better off? Greace, Bulgaria, Ruminia and some. Are they better off? Given not being in blockade and locked in mortal feud with enemies. People blindly look at conditions in europe and compare as if it was not there the horriffic destraction not seen in history just a few decades ago(twice in 30 years)? Was not europe and US just mere 80 years ago in hunger and destitute in ressecion? A country's or nation's time is not determined with just human lifespan.
Most tend to forget that our situation comes from centuries of muslim destraction,(which europe will soon have the taste of) where we actually have done exellent job suviving as a nation, and are on the road to building a bright future. Current times are the most favorable for us in past 500 years. And we will do good.
People call it a russian occupation. How many countries does US have military bases? What do we call those? Is an economic block an occupation? What about the others? Don't they effect the laws and conduct of member countires? Hasn't US dictated about internal and external policies to it's economic partners for decades(sometimes very rudely)? Aren't those countries under financial controll?

I'd have to add that advocating about some association, as to be the magic pill that would solve our problems, without any true facts comparision, without looking straight at both sides you have the choice of, and without talking about positives and negatives free of any prejudice and personal conviction, constitutes lack of responcibility towards the issue you are advocating. Generalising and mixing up issues instead of going into true details and aversion of seing the many sides of a political issue (only linear explanation), or fabricating in order to twist the truth, just because so they would feet into your perseption and desires is not a true patriotism or firendly gesture by "Odars", but a dilettantism or outright hostile act to Armenia.
I am not talking yet about the respect about subject that someone is discussing. Respect towards people that you are having your discussion with. Being a little satiric is accepted sometimes, but outright insults?

[Artashes]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

I'd have to add that advocating about some association, as to be the magic pill that would solve our problems, without any true facts comparision, without looking straight at both sides you have the choice of, and without talking about positives and negatives free of any prejudice and personal conviction, constitutes lack of responcibility towards the issue you are advocating. Generalising and mixing up issues instead of going into true details and aversion of seing the many sides of a political issue (only linear explanation), or fabricating in order to twist the truth, just because so they would feet into your perseption and desires is not a true patriotism or firendly gesture by "Odars", but a dilettantism or outright hostile act to Armenia.
I am not talking yet about the respect about subject that someone is discussing. Respect towards people that you are having your discussion with. Being a little satiric is accepted sometimes, but outright insults?

I agree with what you have said above except this lst point.
The one who used satire is in full agreement with the one who uses rude insults. It's a team act with simply different styles. Awareness & and caution is appropriate.
Personally I think we've done fairly well in this last squeeze play. We got an incredible gas deal from one side + an infusion of capital from the rejected side.
To those who say we don't have any sovereignty. It was our choice to accept or reject. We could have rejected Russia but would have to be prepared to freeze our a$ses off & since most vehicles run on gas we would have had to be prepared for a major transportation shut down. Of course we weren't gonna do that. But if we had have a in house answer we could have said no. We are not in possession of any magic pills or fixes. Considering the high stakes squeeze play we just emerged from, I think we didn't do half bad.
I can't help but think if the more capable section of the diaspora could act as one mind/one heart we hold the potential to shock & stun this fraudulent world. Yes only daydreaming but potential exists.
We need to continue the search.
Artashes

[Hakob]

Re: The Rise of the Russian Empire: Russo-Armenian Relations

You see what is happening in Ukraine? And that is against their own government, which is restrained by western political onslaught.
People tend to forget that 25 years ago Armenians did 10 times more against soviet government that was not restricted by anything. This should show about who Armenians are, and show to ones like cat, that came out from some sxxthole in the wall and are yellow beaked morons and dare to level insults at us.
Look at Armenia today. Isn't it strange that only pitiful 3-400 demonstrate against customs union?
Has anyone thought that people have judged and made decision as to what they need and what is for real? The parents of those soldiers that stand in trenches against azeris and turks, have carefully made their decision as to what their soldier children and their country need.
What this westerners and western backed morons talk about russia, people have lived in real life and they know perfectly well what it means. I have lived and know perfectly well what soviet life was. You can't scare us with that. We know what to really be weary of.
People see perfectly that 90% of those opposition on street have tuned their broadcast for and from their sponsors, otherwise, they are not talking from people's heart.
Armenians have a very keen sense of politics. They have to, and I am not saying that as a bragging, but they had to develop that in order to survive in the turkic muslim sea for 500 years. Didn't they see the oppression or massacres? they lived thru them right? So why did they cling to that piece of land for so long?
Because all those times Armenians always knew that they were better as human society from those who tried to exterminate them.
Right now those westerners and some political groups(including russian nationalism) are trying to break that in us. Make us feel like slaves for choosing what we think is right for us based on our knowledge and reality. Not by what they tell us. They are introducing "better" religions to people who carried their cross always for 1700 years among the most hostile animals. They trying to teach better human values to people who carried their own values for millennia and kept their head above the water in sea of oppression.
As far as I am concerned the west has a lot to learn from us in all those values, because they are the ones with their muslim competitors, wiping out whole civilizations around the world. They both are the ones who have built gas chambers, desert oblivions or siberian gulags. They are the ones who cut the throats of their own brothers in middle east and will soon see what we have seen for the past 500 years in europe itself(muslim onslaught).
Like our poem said, "You will pass like a hurricane and disappear, but we will stay put like our mountains forever".