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Armenian-Turkish Relations

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  • Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

    Armenians are not as poor as to depend on us
    Wednesday, March 31, 2010
    MEHMET ALİ BİRAND
    Yerevan

    There is an urban legend existing for some time.

    According to that, Armenia is so poor that it wants the borders to Turkey to open as soon as possible. This way either they can leave for Turkey easily or improve their quality of life with an increase in trade.

    This legend may have been true to some extent in the 1990s.

    I went to Yerevan a few times in the 90s and I indeed encountered a very poor Armenia. The only place to stay was the Yerevan Hotel where mice ran in the corridor. The streets and buildings were in a bad shape and the quality of life really bad.

    With independence in 1992 it slowly started to change and today the improvement in Yerevan has really stunned me.

    In place of the ruinous Yerevan Hotel there is now a Marriott and the number of hotels in the city has increased to 10.

    Streets have been repaved. Cobblestone pavement or trolley rails cutting into tires have been replaced with streets looking new and clean.

    Shopping alleys with their glamorous lights and foreign brands reflect people’s purchasing power. The abundance of restaurants, casinos and nightclubs has stunned me. Previously the number of movie theaters not exceeding two or three in this capitol of 1.5 million now has a very colorful nightlife.

    Don’t get me wrong.

    Based on what I wrote in the beginning please don’t think that Armenia has become rich and people are living a gorgeous life now. What I am trying to say is that there is no poverty anymore. To describe Armenia’s general situation it would be more correct to say “they are living a moderate lifestyle.”

    I wanted to draw your attention to what I hear quite often here. In case the borders are kept closed, Armenians will continue living the way they used to live for the past 17 years and they are not willing to do anything to provide for the opening of the borders.

    In return if the borders are opened Armenia will get rid of an embargo and life will become easier. The country will not become rich over night, but life will be easier in many ways. If there won’t be any consent and borders remain closed, then Armenia still won’t die of poverty. Let’s not forget that the opening of borders and lifting of an embargo will support the Armenians morally in negotiations with Azerbaijan. Turkey would seem to support Armenia, even if not as much as Azerbaijan, which is not something to be ignored.

    That is why the dispute over borders creates excitement as well as an “It’s not the end of the world” attitude.

    Opening borders will also benefit Turkey

    To tell the truth, no one knows how much the opening of borders will contribute to Armenia’s economy. Some research shows that the contribution will be moderate to high level, based on investments and trade traffic. But we should not forget that not only Armenia will benefit from this contingency, but also Turkey.

    - Armenia, through Turkey, will be able to open up to Middle Eastern and European markets. It will be able to increase the export of goods and import goods cheaper compared to present conditions.

    - With the opening of borders tourism from Europe and the Armenian community in Turkey will increase.

    - Armenia will be able to sell electricity to Turkey.

    - It will also be able to use Turkey’s Black Sea and Mediterranean ports to spread trade.

    - Armenia will become a country through which energy lines will run.

    - Turkey will also encounter important benefits from the opening of the borders. Regions like Van and Kars will revive in trade and tourism. Goods of Turkish origin will be cheaper in the Armenian market due to short cuts in transportation currently transportation is via Iran and Georgia which makes import quite expensive.

    - More importantly Turkey will reach Middle Eastern markets easier. Currently transportation takes too long.

    Nobody imagines a life without genocide or the aftermath

    The Armenians are so focused on and linked their hopes to Turkey accepting the genocide so much so that they turned it into their lifestyle and when one day Turkey finally accepts it you’d think the world stopped spinning.

    When talking to students I asked: “What would you do if Turkey accepted genocide? Would they then ask for territory or compensation?”

    They were stunned and didn’t know how to respond.

    Genocide has become part of their life so much so that they can’t think of a world in which genocide is an issue any more.

    When asking the same question to academics and formal authorities I realized that the aftermath of genocide has never been considered.

    It’s interesting but a belief exists in the lines of “Other countries may accept, but it’s hard to make the Turks accept it.” When digging deeper you’ll find two factors. One is that behind these genocide allegations there is no territorial claim but beneficiaries who lost their homes and still hold on to the title deed could sue for compensation. However this issue also seems to far-fetched. Another factor is that even if the protocols were approved in parliament the realization of the historians’ commission in respect to genocide issues would encounter such deep resistance that it would make it almost impossible.

    It’s not going to be easy.

    It seems very difficult for the Armenian society to ignore a possible suspicion brought about by historians who will pick a subject to pieces which the Armenians are sure the world has already accepted.

    Comment


    • Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

      Well, Turkey isn't a paradise either...but of course it is always easier to criticize other's looks than to look yourself in the mirror.

      It seems very difficult for the Armenian society to ignore a possible suspicion brought about by historians who will pick a subject to pieces which the Armenians are sure the world has already accepted.
      They believe nobody supports the historic reality of the Armenian Genocide and that we are alone when it comes to probe it, that we are just speaking without any support or proofs. Poor fools, they must live between the laurels believing what their government and their sell-out historians in Turkey and abroad constantly tell them, about the lies told by Erdogan that "Armenian are scared and that's why they never accepted to open our files"...that excessive confidence will bring them too the ground
      Last edited by ashot24; 03-31-2010, 03:39 PM.

      Comment


      • Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

        Originally posted by ashot24 View Post
        Well, Turkey isn't a paradise either...but of course it is always easier to criticize other's looks than to look yourself in the mirror.



        They believe nobody supports the historic reality of the Armenian Genocide and that we are alone when it comes to probe it, that we are just speaking without any support or proofs. Poor fools, they must live between the laurels believing what their government and their sell-out historians in Turkey and abroad constantly tell them, about the lies told by Erdogan that "Armenian are scared and that's why they never accepted to open our files"...that excessive confidence will bring them too the ground
        Dont be naive, they dont belive in that, they want make others to belive in that. That is what turks all about.

        Comment


        • Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

          SARGSYAN-OBAMA-ERDOGAN MEETING MAY TAKE PLACE IN WASHINGTON

          PanARMENIAN.Net
          31.03.2010 17:59 GMT+04:00

          /PanARMENIAN.Net/ Prime Minister of Turkey Recep Tayyip Erdogan will
          be in Washington on April 12 and 13 to take part in the international
          nuclear security summit, which will also be attended by Armenia's
          President Serzh Sargsyan

          According to Sky Turk news agency, Erdogan will arrive in Washington
          a day prior to the summit opening. Turkish Ambassador to the US Namik
          Tan, who was recalled from Washington on March 4, will accompany the
          Prime Minister.

          Meanwhile, Internethaber news agency reported that Erdogan is expected
          to meet US President Obama to discuss the Armenian-Turkish Protocols
          on the threshold of April 24.

          "In case of a trilateral meeting between Sargsyan, Obama and Erdogan,
          the US President will get another opportunity to say that a progress is
          fixed in the Armenian-Turkish process and therefore to avoid using
          the Genocide term in annual address to the Armenian community,"
          the report said.
          Hayastan or Bust.

          Comment


          • Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

            PRESIDENT OF ARMENIA ACCEPTS TURKISH PRIME MINISTER'S PROPOSAL

            ArmInfo
            2010-04-08 11:23:00

            ArmInfo. President of Armenia Serzh Sargsyan accepted the proposal
            by Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan to hold a bilateral
            meeting in Washington within the frames of the upcoming summit on
            global nuclear security issues, spokesman of the Armenian president
            Armen Arzumanyan said.
            Hayastan or Bust.

            Comment


            • Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

              OBAMA TO MEET SARKISIAN BUT NOT ERDOGAN IN WASHINGTON

              Hurriyet

              April 7 2010
              Turkey

              U.S. President Barack Obama is set to meet with Armenia's president
              on the sidelines of a nuclear security summit in Washington, but no
              meeting has yet been planned with Turkey's leader, the White House's
              press secretary said.

              Secretary Robert Gibbs announced which countries would participate
              in the nuclear security summit on April 12-13 and which bilateral
              meetings would take place with Obama during a Tuesday press conference
              at the White House.

              Earlier reports said Obama would host a trilateral meeting to also
              include Erdogan and Sarkisian to give impetus to the slow-moving
              normalization process between Turkey and Armenia.

              Responding to a question on whether Turkish Prime Minister Recep
              Tayyip Erdogan would attend the meeting between Obama and Armenian
              President Serge Sarkisian, Gibbs concisely said, "No meeting."

              According to Gibbs, besides Sarkisian, Obama will meet the leaders
              of China, Germany, India, Jordan, Malaysia, Pakistan, South Africa
              and Kazakhstan. His meeting with Sarkisian will focus on the recent
              Armenia-Turkish thaw, Gibbs said.

              However, a senior White House official, who wants to remain anonymous,
              said they expect the president will have a chance to talk to Prime
              Minister Erdogan as they will be seated next to each other at one of
              the events.

              Another source in Washington who is closely following the unfolding
              nuclear security summit meeting's agenda said, "This development could
              be yet another reason for a new crisis between the two countries."

              Omer TaÅ~_pınar, director of the Turkey Program at the Brookings
              Institution, a Washington-based think tank, said the meeting between
              Sarkisian and Obama might cover other issues beside the normalization
              process.

              The increasingly close relationship between Armenia and Iran,
              including some energy deals, has raised eyebrows in Washington,
              TaÅ~_pınar said, adding that it is possible Obama will raise this
              issue during his meeting with Sarkisian.
              Hayastan or Bust.

              Comment


              • Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

                This is a good opportunity for Sarkisian to show his stuff, stay strong, and raise the bet. He should challenge (bluff) Erdogan to a meeting and not fold under any US pressure.
                I am sure he knows that Americans don't play chess or checkers.......they play poker and they admire a man who can play his hand right.
                B0zkurt Hunter

                Comment


                • Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

                  TURKISH ENVOY CONVEYS PM'S LETTER TO AZERBAIJAN

                  armradio.am
                  09.04.2010 18:37

                  Turkey has conveyed its concerns to the United States about Azerbaijan
                  not being invited to the upcoming nuclear summit in Washington, D.C.,
                  diplomatic sources have told the Hurriyet Daily News & Economic Review.

                  "We have passed on the message that it is not correct to not invite
                  Baku to an international event where Armenia will be represented,"
                  said the sources, adding that Washington responded by providing Ankara
                  with information about the criteria used to determine the states to
                  be invited to participate.

                  Heads of state and government from more than 40 countries will
                  participate in the summit hosted by U.S. President Barack Obama on
                  Monday and Tuesday.

                  Turkish Foreign Ministry Undersecretary Feridun Sinirlioglu, Turkey's
                  top diplomat, held talks Friday in Baku where he conveyed a letter from
                  Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan to Azerbaijani President Ilham
                  Aliyev. Diplomatic sources said the visit also aimed to compensate
                  for Baku's non-participation in the nuclear summit.

                  In Baku, Sinirlioglu also met with Azerbaijan's Foreign Minister
                  Elmar Memmedyarov, who had spoken by telephone a day previously with
                  his Turkish counterpart, Ahmet Davutoglu.

                  Turkey has informed Baku about Sinirlioglu's meetings in Yerevan
                  early this week and Davutoglu's talks in France, one of the countries
                  co-chairing the Minsk Group, which aims to find a settlement to the
                  Nagorno-Karabakh dispute, the Hurriyet Daily News reports.


                  This is so pathetic it made me laugh.
                  Hayastan or Bust.

                  Comment


                  • Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

                    Haha what is the next step, will they pass a message to NKR's president Bako Sahakian that is not correct to invite Serge Sarkissian without inviting Azerbaboon Aliyev.

                    Comment


                    • Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

                      I believe big, powerful, bad guy "Türkiye" is afraid of small, powerless, bad-guy wannabe "Azerbaycan"...isn't it pathetic?

                      You get the impression Turkey is worried of loosing Azerbaijan, that they are willing to bow down to them and do whatever they want, Turkey is a tool Azerbaijan's using to get what their want, how ironic is that?
                      Last edited by ashot24; 04-10-2010, 11:53 AM.

                      Comment

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