Armenian-Turkish Relations

[garod]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

...I'm sure your imbecillic statement must be a Turkish proverb

Check out who is imbecile : http://freenet.am/~sdali/gal29.1982-.../image004.html

inference;

nationalists = waste of time = imbecile

[Armanen]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

garod, siktir and sekim!

[crusader1492]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Check out who is imbecile : http://freenet.am/~sdali/gal29.1982-.../image004.html

inference;

nationalists = waste of time = imbecile

More irony: A Turk preaching against nationalism...to an Armenian none-the-less
By your logic, your whole nation is a bunch of imbeciles ( I agree, btw).

This is just more evidence of the futility in dealing with Turks...their hipocrisy know no bounds.

Also garod, that esoteric link you posted proves nothing except that a Turk needs to borrow proverbs from other cultures and in turn, uses them innappropriately.
Btw, you can ascribe to all the art in the Western world, but you'll still be a Turk.

[crusader1492]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

garod, siktir and sekim!

Armanen,

Don't let these exasperating fools bother you...you'll just tire yourself out.
Remember the words "Turks" and "hordes" go hand-in-hand.

...they'll always be nipping at our heels.

[Federate]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

although i can understand where they were coming from, i think alsla was wrong, idiotic, counter productive, and extreme. All they achieved was to give us a bad name.

Այդ բառերը քեզի աւելի կը վայելեն տխմար։ Քիչ մը յարգանք ունեցիր մեր տղոց հանդէպ որոնք արիւննին եւ քրտինքնին թափեցին որպէսզի չմորցուի Հայ Դատը որ այն տարիներուն մորցուած էր։ Դուն ի՞նչ գիտես ինչ "bad name" ունեցանք, յատկապէս այն տարիներուն երբ աշխարհին կէսը այսպիսի ահաբեկչական գործեր կը կատարէր։ Մի՜ բաղդատէր այսօրուայ օրերը 70-80ական թուականներուն - տարբեր ժամանակ էին եւ ինչ որ պէտք է ընէինք ըրինք եւ հակարակ քու ըսածիդ, շատ հաջող եւ հերոսական էր եւ ոչ "counter-productive"։

Մեր տղաքը որ զոհուեցան բոլորն ալ առաջին կամ երկրորդ սերունդ ցեղասպանութեան վերապրողների զաւակներն էին եւ դուն կամ ես բնաւ չենք կրնար հասկնալ իրենց զգացած ցաւը, երբ ոչ Հայաստան գոյութիւն ունէր, Ցեղասպանութիւնը մորցուած էր միջազգայնօրեն եւ հայ ազգը "assimilation"-ի ճամբուն վրան էր։

[garod]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

More irony: A Turk preaching against nationalism...to an Armenian none-the-less
By your logic, your whole nation is a bunch of imbeciles ( I agree, btw).

This is just more evidence of the futility in dealing with Turks...their hipocrisy know no bounds.

Also garod, that esoteric link you posted proves nothing except that a Turk needs to borrow proverbs from other cultures and in turn, uses them innappropriately.
Btw, you can ascribe to all the art in the Western world, but you'll still be a Turk.

Additon to chair ;

Bed, Chair and Bedside Table Ferociously Attacking a Cello !

Ps. Please don't reply if you cannot understand the irony.

[KarotheGreat]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Although I can understand where they were coming from, I think ALSLA was wrong, idiotic, counter productive, and extreme. All they achieved was to give us a bad name.

Is this how you talk about our heroes. Is this how you were raised, I spit in your face traitor of Hayastan. I thaught freaky was bad but compared to you is he a hay heros lagod. I hope for your sake I never meet you in real life. davadjan lagod

[ArmSurvival]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

I tell how extremism can exist independent of gov't policies, but you choose to ignore what I tell. So be it.

Big deal. If you follow this logic, every nation is "extreme", since every nation has small parts of the population that are extremists (some more than others). Instead of following this tedious logic, which will lead us nowhere, its more productive and accurate to see which governments have extremist policies.

But at the end of the day, individual's opinions shape gov't policies.

Do I really need to give you examples to prove this wrong? Lets just take Turkey as an example: The government backs Israel and US 100%, even though over 90% of the population is opposed to it. We are talking about a major foreign policy descision that goes directly against the will of the people. There are many more examples but I think you understand where this is going.

I gave two concrete examples of individual Armenian extremism from the forum which you chose to ignore.

As I said, you cannot compare what some people say on the internet to official government policy backed by 400,000 trained soldiers, a multi-billion dollar arsenal and a multi-billion dollar economy. Stop making ridiculous comparisons.

I am repeating myself. You mention ASALA. Then you say it was 20 years ago (in order to smooth its effect). Then you mention "genocide" which happened 90 years ago.

First of all why don't you compare the death toll and support base for ASALA with the Young Turks. That should keep you busy for a while.

Second of all ASALA only existed for about 10 years, while the Turkish government has been massacring Armenians and trying to prevent and end Armenia's statehood for over 100 years on a much more massive scale, which is continuing until the present day and targets the entire population. Huge difference.

Turkey does not support Azerbaijan's claims over Yerevan.

No, they only allow Azerbaijan to make these claims, then give them billions of dollars of weapons, every type of economic support, and every type of political support. But they don't support them

Such a claim in the 21st century is as absurd as Armenia's territorial claims over its historical lands.

You cannot even compare the two. Armenians claim lands that they were living on for over 3,000 years and were ethnically cleansed from. Azerbaijan claims lands which never belonged to them. Again, you're not providing any context and just saying "both of them are equally absurd". Thats not the case if you actually look at the basic facts.

Armenia is not blockaded for the sake of blockading. I don't know if you are aware of it but there is a war between Armenia and Azerbaijan! The borders are not closed due to hatred.

I don't know if you are aware of it but Azerbaijan started the war by trying to ethnically cleanse Karabagh after the Armenians legally (according to Soviet and international law) declared independence. Once again, you provide no context for your arguments.

I probably won't go on discussing this extremism issue. It seems you will protect your extremists

I'm not "protecting" anyone, people can protect themselves. I'm giving you facts and context since your posts are completely lacking in both.

[Anonymouse]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

This is a warning to all of the posters in this thread.

I don't care who started what or whose arguments are more meritorious. This is about the civility and coherence of the damned thread. If you guys cannot keep it cool, I will close the thread.

No more insults, invectives or other snide remarks. Either respond with substance or do not. Replacing substance with character assassinations and insults does not add any merit to arguments.

This is a warning. Please be cordial. Follow the rules.

[seruven]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Anything involving war is extreme, such as Turkey’s invasion of Cyprus to stop a coup against the Cypriot president and Greek annexation of the island, only to end up seizing the Northern part and setting up a mock puppet regime in support of Turkey.

Other examples of extremities:
*The destruction of historic Armenian grave yards and other Armenian monuments in Azerbaijan.
*The purposeful neglect of ancient Armenian monuments in Turkey
*Turkish renaming of particular flora and faunas scientific names to remove references to Armenians and Kurds.

Dear ara87,
I totally agree with what you have written about above issues.

In the Armenia vs Azerbaijan case, NK has been historically Armenian, and is still to this day populated by Armenians. As for why it was placed into the hands of the Azeri’s…..

I really don't understand this "historically bla bla" issues. Historically we all come from Adam and Eve or some basic life forms.
Historically coming from Central Asia or once having control over Bulgaria, Greece, Cyprus, etc. and still having relatives there shouldn't lead any country to make claims over these territories.
I don't want any more wars, deaths, brutalities for silly purposes. People should learn how to live together without trying to assimilate or discriminate each other and with respecting different nations, cultures, religions, sexual orientation, etc.

Between Armenia & Azerbaijan, not Turkey

Turkey and Azerbaijan are sister states. During my university education, I have met with many Azeri friends. There is the saying "one nation, two countries" for Turkey and Azerbaijan.

there are many policies enacted by governments world wide that have nothing to do with what the people want or need(just look at America).

Of course, there may be exceptions, but I insist on my previous thought.
In order not to digress, I'll keep that short: I think, American gov't pursues exactly the policies which are benefical for its people. And if there were strong opposition of the people (like in the Vietnam War), the gov't would change its policies.

Unless I am mistaken, Turks/Turkey support the Israeli’s claims over Israel/Palestine, however it had been 18 centuries since the roman’s deported them, and for centuries prior they had been ruled by other nations. So if their territorial claims aren’t absurd in the Turkish governments eyes, I don’t see why Armenia’s claims are.

You are mistaken.
For political reasons, Turkey could have never raised her voice against Israel and her policies towards Palestine. However Turkish politicans (to whatever party or ideology they belong) always condemn Israel's actions against Palestinians. They do not object to Israel's existence but her efforts in order to enlarge and her cruel attempts/attitude.