Armenian-Turkish Relations

[Sako]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

all the small countries and weak races say that

irish says they are not bad people therefore they couldnt win england

indian says they are so cool and innocent therefore they were used by england

And they were, lad. It's history all over again. We welcomed you into our home and you murdered our people. The Indians welcomed the pathetic British into THEIR home and they immediately took control by cheating everyone. The British only won because they were more sophisticated and had guns, cannons, etc. The Indians weren't so sophisticated but in the end, kicked the British out of their nation.

blacks think they are very good people and other all races are murderer and barbaric

Who ever said that or is this one of your Turkish theories again?

always same story no one admit that they were weak and easy target.

Weak and easy target? Turkey cheated us and didn't fight us like MEN or even women. You betrayed us like xxxxxes with no honor, lad. Your pathetic grandads burning in hell right now manipulated us and destroyed us not because we were a weak target but because we were the greatest threat to them. We beat you at everything. Armenians were talented. We beat you at almost everything and you Turks hated us. We EARNED what we had. You STOLE what you had and CONTINUE to steal. Almost NOTHING you have belongs to you. So who are you Turk? Do you even know? After all you've done to us, we still rose from the ashes and today, even though we're small, we can stand proudly next to any nation. Our people have done things people from other nations haven't ever done. We are a proud people and we STILL are a threat to Turkey and the only reason your leaders are upset is because they couldn't get rid of us back in 1915 and would gladly give it a shot again if we gave them a chance. ARR dzez!

it is bad but truth. weaks suffer from strongs.

Strong? How has your nation ever been strong? Only by numbers! We have been strong because of talent, because of heart, because of will, because of true strenght, etc. Our nation aims for quality ... your nation is and always has aimed for quantity, lol.

i agree that tragedic event was really awful in ww1 but about anatolia thing we just won alot of wars in 10-15 centruires.

You know nothing about your history. Start reading kardesh. You have a looonnngg way to go.

[jgk3]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Did a cleanup of posts responding to Almasd who hasn't been active in this thread for god knows how many pages. You guys were diverting the thread, this is warning.

[KarotheGreat]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

to get this thread back on topic

ARMENIA SHOULD BE ALIENATED FROM RUSSIA AND IRAN

“Armenia should approximate to the West, but not Russia and Iran,” Vecdi Gonul said. He called on Washington to intensify efforts aimed at the settlement of the Nagorno Karabakh problem. Speaking about the Armenian-Turkish relations, Vecdi Gonul stressed, that Ankara seeks to normalize relations with the official Yerevan, but “Armenia’s statements about the Armenian Genocide in Ottoman Turkey has poisoning effect,” Turkish “Zaman” newspaper writes.

source: http://www.armtown.com/news/en/pan/20090604/32648/

[KarotheGreat]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

TURKISH FM SAYS THERE'S NO INTERRUPTION IN TALKS WITH ARMENIA

Turkish Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu said on Thursday there was no interruption in normalization process with Armenia. "Normalization process continues since April 22 joint statement and there are ongoing direct or indirect contacts. There is no interruption in course of the talks. We are doing our best for solution of problems," Davutoglu, currently on a formal visit to the United States, told reporters that. Davutoglu said Turkish-Armenian relations had an important role in Turkish-U.S. relations due to the developments in U.S. Congress, "Turkey's policy is very open. U.S. executives appreciate this policy. Turkey favors tranquility, peace and welfare to prevail in South Caucasia. Turkey is eager to normalize relations with Armenia within the scope of good relations with our neighbors. However, a similar normalization is necessary in conflict between Armenia and Azerbaijan for a lasting and comprehensive normalization." Responding to a question on probability of opening of Turkish-Armenian border within a year, Davutoglu said this depended on the developments. "It may be misleading to set a time or give details when the process is underway," he added, AA cited Davutoglu as saying.

source: http://www.armtown.com/news/en/pan/20090604/32642/

[KanadaHye]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

to get this thread back on topic

ARMENIA SHOULD BE ALIENATED FROM RUSSIA AND IRAN

“Armenia should approximate to the West, but not Russia and Iran,” Vecdi Gonul said. He called on Washington to intensify efforts aimed at the settlement of the Nagorno Karabakh problem. Speaking about the Armenian-Turkish relations, Vecdi Gonul stressed, that Ankara seeks to normalize relations with the official Yerevan, but “Armenia’s statements about the Armenian Genocide in Ottoman Turkey has poisoning effect,” Turkish “Zaman” newspaper writes.

source: http://www.armtown.com/news/en/pan/20090604/32648/

That would be the end of Armenia....

[KarotheGreat]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Turkey to open more difficult chapters in its EU process

/PanARMENIAN.Net/ “We have opened nearly all the easy chapters in EU process. Now, the remaining chapters require important benchmarks that could cause trouble at home and in Europe,” Egemen Bağış, Turkey’s state minister and chief negotiator in EU process, said.

To open the chapter on social policies, the law on trade unions must be adopted, the Turkish official said, adding that the same goes for the chapter on the environment and the laws and regulations on waste treatment. “We are planning to open the chapter on the environment during the Swedish presidency,” Bagis noted.

The negotiations between Turkey and the EU started in 2005, but so far, only 10 chapters out of 35 have been opened, mostly because of the Cyprus problem and France’s opposition to Turkey’s full membership. Eight chapters were suspended because Turkey rejects to open its ports and airports to Cyprus.

“For us, our reform process is much more important than the number of opened chapters. If we focus too much on the chapters, then we’ll let Brussels get behind the wheel, but if we are concentrated on reforms, then the control will be in Parliament,” Hurriyet quotes Bagis as saying.

[KarotheGreat]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

That would be the end of Armenia....

well guess what the Russians aren't ready to give up in the battle for Armenia yet..

Dmitry Medvedev: Russia is committed to further development of partnership with Armenia

/PanARMENIAN.Net/ Frequent meetings among country leaders help overcome difficulties in different spheres of life, RF President Dmitry Medvedev said before a meeting with his Armenian colleague Serzh Sargsyan. “To overcome current difficulties, we need to organize meetings more frequently. And this is actually what we do,” Medvedev said, adding that frequent meeting also “help adopt specific decisions on specific issues.”

Russian President expressed hope for discussing “the most important topics” during the meeting with Mr. Sargsyan. In the meantime, Russia is committed to further development of partnership with Armenia, RIA Novosti quotes Medvedev as saying.

[Mukuch]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

That would be the end of Armenia....

Yes, if it will happen right now....
That why we must consider balanced relations with the all poles of power.
Even if we always try to stick with Russia, Russia may "dump" us some day. As it has happened many times. But that doesn’t mean that we must alienate from anyone...

[ninetoyadome]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Russia needs an ally in the South Caucasus and Armenia is that ally. We need a superpower to help us against the turks and azeris and Russia is that superpower. The turks and azeris are the same they keep threatening us, destroying and converting our monuments but they dont attack because of Russia. Here is an article about Ani and how the turks are trying to present it as an ottoman city with no trace of Armenia.


On the road: Kars

Ruins in Ani The second paragraph in Turkish Nobel laureate Orhan Pamuk's novel “Snow” reads: “He'd boarded the bus from Erzurum to Kars with only seconds to spare.”

In contrast, we waited in the otogar for an hour before boarding our bus, late due to heavy snow on the mountain pass into Erzurum. Ka, Pamuk's main character, thought of God as he watched the snow fall along his journey, but as the snow piled up on the military bases just outside of Erzurum I was reminded that our trip to Kars, a city in northeast Turkey bordering Armenia, would not be enough to escape the fifth month of Erzurum's winter.
With me were two fellow teachers who I had traveled with in Van only two weeks earlier. Added to our group was an art historian doing research in İstanbul. We headed to Kars in early April because we couldn't wait any longer to explore Ani, the uninhabited city in the province of Kars which was once the capital of the medieval Armenian kingdom.

Ani -- tensions new and old

From A.D. 500 to today, Ani has been invaded, constructed and deconstructed, respiritualized and subject to both natural and political disasters. Like many sites in Turkey, Ani wears a complex historical record.

The most recent political tensions are witnessed in the “restorations” of the city and the Armenian quarry just across the gorge which marks the border between Turkey and Armenia at the eastern edge of this once thriving city.

A professor in my department told me with a laugh that “the Armenians are mining and undermining [Ani] at the same time.” Other sources corroborate that the Armenian quarry jeopardizes the historical city -- the quarry was established out of a mixture of spite for Turkey's border and remembrance of Armenia's religious heritage. (The stone from just outside the former capital of Armenia was used to build a cathedral in Yerevan commemorating the anniversary of Armenia's conversion to Christianity.)

The restorations in Ani also tell a political story. The restorations have been condemned by every art historian to write about Ani and are recognized at best to be a way of creating construction projects in the region, at worst as a way to hide Ani's historical significance as the former capital of Armenia -- the sign at the entrance also contributes to the latter point, never mentioning Armenia in its extensive list of empires to control the city.

Whatever political tensions exist between Armenia and Turkey, I hope both sides can agree on the significance of the site and do the right thing in its preservation. The site has been listed consistently on the World Monuments Fund's list of top 100 endangered historical sites.

Exploring Ani

While I could spend the entire article talking about botched restorations and political battles, I would be denying the fun of exploring Ani at this stage in history. After being dropped off in the middle of Kars, we met an eager taxi driver who took us to our hotel and waited while we settled in and ate breakfast. At the hotel we met an Australian man touring eastern Turkey, and he joined us on the way to Ani, the six of us packing into a small taxi for the 45-minute ride.

At Ani we paid our entrance fee and walked through the Lion's Gate at the center of the enormous city walls, the ruins stretching across the landscape. The rubble of old homes led to impressive churches and mosques, some only half intact but majestic for their courage against gravity.

I walked the streets trying to imagine myself as a peasant centuries ago when the city rivaled Constantinople, Cairo and Baghdad in size and influence. On the second floor of the cathedral I am a priest. On top of the minaret at Menucehr Mosque I am a müezzin calling out for morning prayer.

While the taxi driver drank tea with the guard just outside the front gate, we had Ani to ourselves for most of the afternoon. An overcast sky helped me sink into the feel of the city, touching the walls worn from wind, rain and arrowheads.

As the rain drizzled and then poured, we made our way along to our final sites, quickly visiting the fire temple before retreating underneath the Lion's Gate and packing into the taxi once more, a wet Australian man on my lap in the front seat.

Ani's condition may not be respectable considering its historical significance, but the cranking machinery across the gorge and the poorly done restorations mark Ani with the tensions of the current period. Like no other site I've visited in Turkey, Ani wears its century and a half of abandonment and conflict, proof that these histories cannot be removed or forgotten.


I had posted another article earlier where the turks are changing Armenian monuments and saying they are ottoman monuments.

http://www.panarmenian.net/news/eng/...ate=2009-05-21

[Mukuch]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Russia needs an ally in the South Caucasus and Armenia is that ally. We need a superpower to help us against the turks and azeris and Russia is that superpower. The turks and azeris are the same they keep threatening us, destroying and converting our monuments but they dont attack because of Russia. Here is an article about Ani and how the turks are trying to present it as an ottoman city with no trace of Armenia.


On the road: Kars

Ruins in Ani The second paragraph in Turkish Nobel laureate Orhan Pamuk's novel “Snow” reads: “He'd boarded the bus from Erzurum to Kars with only seconds to spare.”

In contrast, we waited in the otogar for an hour before boarding our bus, late due to heavy snow on the mountain pass into Erzurum. Ka, Pamuk's main character, thought of God as he watched the snow fall along his journey, but as the snow piled up on the military bases just outside of Erzurum I was reminded that our trip to Kars, a city in northeast Turkey bordering Armenia, would not be enough to escape the fifth month of Erzurum's winter.
With me were two fellow teachers who I had traveled with in Van only two weeks earlier. Added to our group was an art historian doing research in İstanbul. We headed to Kars in early April because we couldn't wait any longer to explore Ani, the uninhabited city in the province of Kars which was once the capital of the medieval Armenian kingdom.

Ani -- tensions new and old

From A.D. 500 to today, Ani has been invaded, constructed and deconstructed, respiritualized and subject to both natural and political disasters. Like many sites in Turkey, Ani wears a complex historical record.

The most recent political tensions are witnessed in the “restorations” of the city and the Armenian quarry just across the gorge which marks the border between Turkey and Armenia at the eastern edge of this once thriving city.

A professor in my department told me with a laugh that “the Armenians are mining and undermining [Ani] at the same time.” Other sources corroborate that the Armenian quarry jeopardizes the historical city -- the quarry was established out of a mixture of spite for Turkey's border and remembrance of Armenia's religious heritage. (The stone from just outside the former capital of Armenia was used to build a cathedral in Yerevan commemorating the anniversary of Armenia's conversion to Christianity.)

The restorations in Ani also tell a political story. The restorations have been condemned by every art historian to write about Ani and are recognized at best to be a way of creating construction projects in the region, at worst as a way to hide Ani's historical significance as the former capital of Armenia -- the sign at the entrance also contributes to the latter point, never mentioning Armenia in its extensive list of empires to control the city.

Whatever political tensions exist between Armenia and Turkey, I hope both sides can agree on the significance of the site and do the right thing in its preservation. The site has been listed consistently on the World Monuments Fund's list of top 100 endangered historical sites.

Exploring Ani

While I could spend the entire article talking about botched restorations and political battles, I would be denying the fun of exploring Ani at this stage in history. After being dropped off in the middle of Kars, we met an eager taxi driver who took us to our hotel and waited while we settled in and ate breakfast. At the hotel we met an Australian man touring eastern Turkey, and he joined us on the way to Ani, the six of us packing into a small taxi for the 45-minute ride.

At Ani we paid our entrance fee and walked through the Lion's Gate at the center of the enormous city walls, the ruins stretching across the landscape. The rubble of old homes led to impressive churches and mosques, some only half intact but majestic for their courage against gravity.

I walked the streets trying to imagine myself as a peasant centuries ago when the city rivaled Constantinople, Cairo and Baghdad in size and influence. On the second floor of the cathedral I am a priest. On top of the minaret at Menucehr Mosque I am a müezzin calling out for morning prayer.

While the taxi driver drank tea with the guard just outside the front gate, we had Ani to ourselves for most of the afternoon. An overcast sky helped me sink into the feel of the city, touching the walls worn from wind, rain and arrowheads.

As the rain drizzled and then poured, we made our way along to our final sites, quickly visiting the fire temple before retreating underneath the Lion's Gate and packing into the taxi once more, a wet Australian man on my lap in the front seat.

Ani's condition may not be respectable considering its historical significance, but the cranking machinery across the gorge and the poorly done restorations mark Ani with the tensions of the current period. Like no other site I've visited in Turkey, Ani wears its century and a half of abandonment and conflict, proof that these histories cannot be removed or forgotten.


I had posted another article earlier where the turks are changing Armenian monuments and saying they are ottoman monuments.
http://www.panarmenian.net/news/eng/...ate=2009-05-21

I never will forget the kurdish guy who was trying to sell me ancient coins right behind St Hripsime Cathedrals ruins...and how he was hiding from turkish soldiers who were guarding the ruins of Ani...