Armenian-Turkish Relations

[Armenian]

In my opinion, there are three fundamental things we Armenians need to know about Turks:

1) Armenians want somethings from Turks that Turks will never give up on their own.

2) It is not in the national interest of Turkey to have a strong and prosperous Armenian neighbor.

3) Turks are simply Asiatic squatters in Anatolia, their national existance is temporary.

Based upon my experiences and observations, there are essentially three kinds of Turks with regards to Armenian issues:

The good Turk: This kind simply wants to 'whitewash' their role within the Armenian Genocide. This kind does apologize, but say we need to simply move on and forget about our lands and reparations - they claim too much time has passed.

The bad Turk: This kind claims it was just a nasty war and Armenians died because Armenians back stabbed Turks by siding with the Russians. And they go on to say - forget about your lands and reparations, it was war and you lost.

The Ugly Turk: This kind simply says they will do "it" again if need be and that - we should forget about any reparations and our lands.

The bottom line is: All self-respecting Turks, regardless of personality and ethics, want us Armenians to forget about what happened during the Armenian Genocide. They also want us to forget about our lost lands and they want us to give-up on any reparations. What's more, it is obvious that Turkey will never want a prosperous Armenia on her border.

However, we Armenians are not about to forget our historic lands, we are not about to forget our long over-due reparations and we will not forget that the blood of our martyred ancestors remain unavenged. All crimes need appropriate punishment. Thus, sooner or later, the Turk will be made to pay - one way or another.

[Armenian]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

I do not advocate war with any nation. I simply want to see Armenians and Turks disengaging form any contact, and I want to See Armenia build a powerful military and economy for self-defense.

Tuks will never want to have a prosperous Armenia as a neighbor for obvious reasons. Turks will never willingly give back what Armenians want - our lands. I am confident that Turkey will fall apart sooner or later, we Armenians have to be ready to re-claim what is ours. Having said that, I have to say that most Armenians, and many others, over estimate the Turk as a fighting force. Turks are barbarians, they are not soldiers. The Turk, on many occasions, has been defeated by nations much smaller.

The presence of the Turk, Asiatic squatters in Anatolia, would have ended during the First World War by Russian and Armenian forces had it not been for the Bolshevik revolution. The invading Greek army in 1921 would have would have ended existence of the Turkish state had it not be for France's and England's abandonment of the Greek war effort and their treachery.

Even during the middle ages, Turks only managed to carved out an empire in Asia Minor because Byzantium, Persia and Armenia had fought each other to oblivion. The Ottoman Empire managed to gain a foothold in Europe essentially because Europeans had bled themselves white after two hundred years of continuous warfare during the crusades.

In short:

The Crusader tragedy and the Mongol invasions devastated all nations within Europe, Asia Minor and the Middle East for several centuries. The savage Turk simply took advantage of this situation as it spread like a parasite throughout the region. The Turk has been at the right place at the right time. He is a scavanger and a parasite. Today he exists only because western powers and the Zionist State of Israel wants to see Turkey as a buffer against Arab, Persian and Russian expansion.

The Turk is not a soldier, he is a ruthless barbarian who excels in atrocities against unarmed civilians.

[Armenian]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

REPORT: NO BIG GAINS TO ARMENIA IF TURKEY LIFTS BLOCKADE

By Haroutiun Khachatrian: 8/09/05

A controversial report by an Armenian research and consulting group claims that reopening the Armenian-Turkish border would have a much smaller impact on Armenia’s economy than commonly believed.

The report was presented July 13 by the Armenian-European Political Legal Advice Center (AEPLAC), a prominent think tank sponsored by the European Union. It contended that Armenia would see its economy expand by only $20-23 million annually, or just 0.67 percent of its current Gross Domestic Product, if Turkey decided to lift its 12-year blockade of the Armenian border. Over the next five years, Armenia’s GDP would see an additional 2.7 percent increase over the country’s level in 2004.

The gain, the report maintained, would be almost exclusively the result of lower cargo transportation costs associated with the reopening of the Kars-Gyumri railroad that connects the two countries. Currently, Armenian goods can only reach trade partners via Georgia, which charges relatively high cargo tariffs. Transportation costs account for some 25-30 percent of Armenia’s trade costs, according to the report.

The report’s findings caught many Armenian academics and journalists by surprise. A widely cited 2000 World Bank study predicted that Armenia would see a 30-percent increase in GDP if both Turkey and Azerbaijan lifted their economic embargos. Since then, the Armenian economy has experienced impressive growth. [For background see the Eurasia Insight archive]. Many observers and economists believed that lifting the blockade would boost those numbers still higher.

Turkey closed its border with Armenia in 1993 in an act of solidarity with Azerbaijan. At the time, Armenian and Azerbaijani forces were battling for control of the Nagorno-Karabakh enclave. [For background see the Eurasia Insight archive]. The blockade cause substantial economic hardship in Armenia for much of the 1990s. In early 2004, Turkey reportedly considered re-opening the border, but eventually decided against it. [For background see the Eurasia Insight archive].

Turkish goods -- worth an estimated $40 million per year, according to the National Statistical Service of Armenia -- manage to enter Armenia via third countries. A general belief exists that if the border were re-opened, Armenia would be able to export a comparable amount of goods and services, namely electricity – to its western neighbor.

Many economists have challenged the report’s findings. They note that the analysis contained in the report, which was written by a seven-member team, largely concurs with recent statements made by various government officials, who have downplayed the need for an open Turkish-Armenian border. The daily Azg, for instance, commented on July 7 that the report’s argument provided strong support for Foreign Minister Vartan Oskanian’s position that Armenia will not make any political concessions to Turkey in return for the lifting of the border blockade. “If the economic impact of lifting the blockade is negligible, then there is no reason to open the border,” said a recent editorial published by the Russian-language Delovoi Ekspress. “And this is pure politics.”

Others take issue with the report’s statistical analysis. Economist Eduard Agajanov, who served as minister of statistics under former President Levon Ter-Petrosian (1991-1998), charged that the report underestimated the economic impact of reopening the Turkish-Armenian border in order to provide political support for President Robert Kocharian’s administration. “Its purpose is to preserve the current oligarchic economic system in Armenia, which cannot survive if the borders are opened and competition with Turkish goods becomes tougher,” Agajanov said. If Armenia regains access to markets of the Middle East via Turkey, Agajanov argued, it would stimulate a whole range of industries that were active during the Soviet era, when the Middle East and India were major markets.

The AEPLAC authors said they took various factors into account, including the 2000 World Bank study and the potential re-entry of Armenian companies into Middle Eastern markets. Ultimately, however, they decided that Armenian producers do not presently have the resources to meet demand in Turkey and the Middle East for goods, such as electricity and cement. At the same time, the report suggested that reopening the Turkish-Armenian border might stimulate economic growth in eastern regions of Turkey, where GDP per capita is even lower than in Armenia.

Although the authors of the AEPLAC report state that it was commissioned by the Armenian government, Trade and Economic Development Minister Karen Chshmaritian has denied that the government had anything to do with the preparation of the document.

At a July 27 press conference, Chshmairtian criticized the AEPLAC estimates as too conservative. “They have not taken into account the effect of mutual penetration of capital from the two countries. Turkey obviously hinders its businessmen from investing in Armenia, and when this ban is eliminated, growth may be highly accelerated,” he stated. To prove the point, Chshmaritian told reporters, the government is conducting its own research into the economic impact of Turkey lifting its border blockade. A report is due out later this year, he said.

Editor’s Note: Haroutiun Khachatrian is a Yerevan-based writer specializing in economic and political affairs.

Source: http://www.eurasianet.org/department...80905_pr.shtml

[Armenian]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Dashnaks Insist On Territorial Claims To Turkey

Armenia does not recognize Turkey’s territorial integrity and may in the future lay claim to lands that were populated by Armenians before the 1915 genocide, a senior member of the governing Armenian Revolutionary Federation (Dashnaktsutyun) claimed on Friday.

“The current government of which we are a part and the president whom we have supported and will support will not abandon territorial claims,” Giro Manoyan, a spokesman for the nationalist party’s ruling Bureau, said. “Armenia’s official position is that the issue is not on our foreign policy agenda. That means it can be on the agenda tomorrow.”

Recognition of Turkey’s current borders has been one of Ankara’s preconditions for normalizing relations with Armenia. Official Yerevan says it recognizes the existing Turkish-Armenian border which was set by the Treaty of Kars signed in 1921 following the country’s takeover by Bolshevik Russia. The government of the then Armenian Soviet Socialist Republic was among the treaty’s signatories

“Armenia is the successor state of the Armenian Soviet Socialist Republic,” the Armenian Foreign Ministry explains on its website. “All of the agreements which the ASSR signed continue to be in force unless new agreements have been signed to replace them.”

At the same time the Armenian government has repeatedly dismissed Turkish demands to officially declare that it will never claim any lands in what is now eastern Turkey.

“No Armenian government can do that because I believe the Armenia people would not allow that government to remain in power,” Manoyan said during a roundtable discussion in Yerevan.

“The fact that there are no territorial claims today, does not mean we can’t lay such claims tomorrow,” he told RFE/RL separately.

The possibility of such claims has never been publicly acknowledged by President Robert Kocharian, Defense Minister Serzh Sarkisian and two other parties represented in Armenia’s government. In a famous 2001 interview with CNN-Turk television, Kocharian sought to assure Ankara that its recognition of the 1915-1918 mass killings of Armenians in the Ottoman Empire as genocide would not prompt territorial demands from Yerevan.

“Genocide recognition by Turkey will not lead to legal consequences for territorial claims,” Kocharian said at the time. “The problem is that those events have taken place in Turkey, and the Republic of Armenia did not exist at that time, and today's Republic of Armenia is not the heir to those lands,” he added.

David Phillips, a U.S. scholar who chaired the Turkish-Armenian Reconciliation Commission, wrote in a 2005 book that Kocharian’s interview “helped mollify [Turkish] concerns about Armenia’s intentions.”

But according to Manoyan, the Armenian leader simply stated that “there is no such issue on the agenda of Armenian foreign policy today.” “The president also said genocide recognition would not automatically result in territorial claims,” he said, denying any disagreements on the issue between Kocharian and Dashnaktsutyun.

Manoyan revealed last summer that the party, which also has chapters in major Armenian communities abroad, plans a major shift in its long-running campaign for international recognition of the Armenian genocide. He said Dashnaktsutyun will strive to force Turkey to pay reparations.

Kocharian, however, had told CNN-Turk that for him genocide recognition is “more of a moral issue.”

Source: http://www.armenialiberty.org/armeni...EE76832E8B.ASP

[Armenian]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

EU WILL NOT CHANGE THE ESSENCE OF TURKEY

«There have been no Armenian-Turkish relations for the last 15 years. There were attempts by the previous authorities to satisfy the demands of the Turkish authorities but it is not enough to establish diplomatic relations», member of the Armenian Revolutionary Federation Supreme Body Kiro Manoyan in the «Mirror» club. {BR}

According to Mr. Manoyan, the Armenian-Turkish relations entered a new phase in 1998 when the issue of the recognition of the Genocide was announced the most important of all, but that resulted fruitless too. Mr. Manoyan considers Turkey's role in the region negative, and as he said, he has no ground to be optimistic.

The second guest of the «Mirror» club Candidate of Historic Sciences Hayk Demoyan is convinced that there is not enough ground to establish Armenian-Turkish relations. «Neither the Armenians nor the Turks are ready for it yet. The Turkish authorities and the elite do not accept the fact that there exists a Republic of Armenia».

The Historian is convinced that the opening of the Armenian-Turkish border will not make the relations of the two countries friendly, especially if Turkey is forced by other countries to take the step. According to Hayk Demoyan it is useless to establish relations with Turkey while Turkey does not recognize the Armenian Genocide.

The guests of the «Mirror» club did not find the process of membership of Turkey in EU reassuring. «There is no guarantee that the new government in Turkey will announce they do not care about EU. The aim of the Government of Tansu Chiler showed to attack Armenia in 1993showed that Turkey does not change. The present Republic of Turkey is equally responsible for the Genocide». Kiro Manoyan said.

He is also convinced that even if Turkey becomes member of EU, their essence will not be changed, «In this connection, the presence of the Russian forces is extremely important in our country».

At the end of the meeting Hayk Demoyan tried to foresee what the year will bring to Turkey, «The year 2006 will be not a year of Dog for Turkey, but that of bird flu which will have its grave political and economic influence on the Turkish people. The disappointment of the Turkish people with the authorities after the 1998 earthquake will be deepened».

Source: http://www.a1plus.am/eng/?go=print&id=35340

[Armenian]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Turkey Sets Three Conditions to Armenia

12.04.2006 23:41 GMT+04:00

/PanARMENIAN.Net/ Without the fulfillment of Turkey’s three fundamental demands by Armenia any development of ties between the two states is out of the question, head of the Turkish delegation to the PACE Murat Mercan stated in Strasbourg. According to the Turkish parliamentarian the conditions are as follows: settlement of the Nagorno Karabakh conflict admissible for both parties; Armenia’s positive reply to Turkey’s proposal on the Armenian Genocide issue; recognition of the present borders with Turkey on the basis of the Kars agreement of 1921 by Yerevan. “Without fulfillment of these conditions it’s no sense speaking of normalization of the Armenian-Turkish relations,” Merjan said emphasizing the opening of the Armenian-Turkish border also depends on the proper fulfillment of the above mentioned conditions, reported Trend news agency.

! Reproduction in full or in part is prohibited without reference to «PanARMENIAN.Net».

http://panarmenian.net/news/eng/?nid=17371

[Armenian]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

THE OPENING OF THE ARMENIA-TURKEY BORDER IN THE LIGHT OF ARMENO-IRANIAN RELATIONS

For most Armenian political and intellectual circles, the blockade forced on Armenia by Turkey—and the fact, that the Armeno-Turkish border still remains closed—are proof of Turkey’s antagonistic attitude, if not outright animosity towards Armenia and the Armenian people. This much is undeniable. Aside from the economic consequences of the blockade, in the realm of international relations, aggravating the lack of formal diplomatic ties with the decision to implement a blockade, can easily be construed as an act of war, a casus belli. Therefore, to ask Turkey to normalize relations with Armenia by opening the borders, may be received as an attempt to end the present belligerent policy. It is not by chance, that the speech delivered at an Armenian Assembly gathering by Assistant to the Secretary of State, Daniel Fried was received with applause, when he stated: "Now we hope, but also anticipate, that a solution on Nagorno-Karabagh will result in an open border with Turkey, which is a consistent goal on our agenda with Ankara. From Yerevan, I went to Ankara and I made this point with the Turkish government that we want the border open, and we want it open as soon as possible."

So far, high-ranking American officials, succeeding ambassadors—the last of whom, John Evans—have declared, that in the light of the existing blockade, they approach with understanding Armenia’s special relationship with Iran.

In regards to the importance of relations with Iran, a similar opinion is expressed in a document titled "Strategic Defense Guidelines of the Republic of Armenia" where one reads the following: "In conditions of an economic-transportation blockade, from the point-of-view of neutralizing Armenia’s isolation, Iran’s significance becomes more salient as a country securing an essential strategic road to Asia and the Middle East for Armenia."

However, it is clear, that intent on the encirclement of Iran, the United States has partially completed that aim with its military presence in Iraq and Afghanistan, the mistrust of the Gulf’s Arab states towards Iran and the stress in Azerbaijan-Iran relations. Daniel Fried has said in Baku, that the danger to the security of Azerbaijan does not come from Armenia, it comes from other countries (referring to Iran). Fried justifies American aid to Azerbaijan, saying, "Our security cooperation with and assistance to Azerbaijan is meant to improve Azerbaijan’s posture against those threats, not against Armenia."

Iran’s encirclement could be completed by reversing the progress of her relationship with Armenia. However, that progress cannot be justifiably slowed down, as long as the Turkish-Azeri blockade of Armenia continues. It is by lifting that blockade, that Armenia’s special relationship with Iran may become not only unjustifiable, as far as the United States is concerned, but objectionable, as well.

According to Fried, the United States follows with considerable apprehension Armenia’s energy ties with Iran. According to him, America—as in the case of other Caucasus countries—tries to find alternate sources of fuel for Armenia. Therefore, it is clear, that the increasing interest, shown recently by the United States on the matter of the opening of the Armenia-Turkey border, is motivated by a desire to end State Department’s present tolerance of the Armenia-Iran special relationship, by securing other accessible sources of energy for Armenia’s needs.

In political terms, the U.S. efforts to encircle Iran are understandable. However, the U.S. attempt to replace the present Armenia-Iran relations with those of Armenia-Turkey, denotes a failure to grasp the historical context of existing Armenian-Turkish relations. For Armenia, what is being dealt with here is not a simple act of shutting the back door and opening the front one. More than just political, both relationships have strategic ramifications. Opening the borders does not nullify the Turkish threats to the security of the Armenian people and state. Furthermore, it jeopardizes the Armenian quest for justice and reparations for the genocide committed by Turkey. In sum, the issue is not one of replacing the 10 cubic meters of natural gas being pumped from Iran with an equal amount from Turkey or Azerbaijan; those relationships are not as simple as the spokesmen of the US State Department’s foreign policy would make us believe.

Most worrisome of all, however, is the danger of having Armenian circles, that may be lured and end up swallowing—hook, line, and sinker—these simplistic notions concerning the complex relationships discussed above.

By Khajag Mgrdichian

Source: http://www.azg.am/?lang=EN&num=2006042003

[Armenian]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Armenian Consumers Association call upon boycotting Turkish goods

“We should start boycotting Turkish goods in the Armenian market. This is, first of all, a problem of our national dignity, and then an economic issue,” President of the Armenian Consumers Association Armen Pogosyan has announced at a news conference on April 25.

However, according to him, surveys have shown that many Turkish goods meet consumer standards and it is impossible to isolate fully the Armenian market from Turkish goods. “Our citizens should understand that they should not buy some products, despite it is cheap, as it touches upon dignity of any Armenian, who remembers history of his people,” Armen Pogosyan noted. As a REGNUM correspondent reports, the association’s president reminded that when the French Senate recognized the Armenian Genocide of 1915, “on that very day the Turkish Union for Consumer Rights Protection announced boycott against French goods imported to the country.” “We should undertake administrative measures too, without violation of the law for consumer rights protection,” concluded Armen Pogosyan.

Link: http://www.regnum.ru/english/629786.html

[Armenian]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Young Armenians against Normalization of Relations with Turkey And Azerbaijan

YEREVAN (Armenpress)--A survey conducted by Sociometer polling center revealed that the overwhelming majority of young Armenians are against normalization of relations with Turkey if this requires giving up Armenians' territorial claims to Turkey and without Turkey's acknowledgment of the 1915 genocide.

According to the Sociometer poll, 90 percent of respondents said they were against the improvement of relations with Turkey in that way.

The percentage of those who would seek economic and other ties with Turkey before it recognized the Genocide and met other Armenian demands was only 4 percent, while 6 percent were undecided.

Also 91 percent said they were against establishment of normal relations with Azerbaijan without the final settlement of the Karabagh issue. Only 2.9 percent said they would welcome it. The survey was conducted in order formulate Armenia's national youth policy.

Asbarez
April 4, 2006

[Armenian]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Armenia Should Look in Future to Normalize Relations with Turkey

Jan SOYKOK (JTW) - President of the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe (PACE) René van der Linden said that to normalize relations with Turkey Armenia should “look in the future, not using the past to block it and look for peaceful solutions”, Armenian daily PanArmenian reported. Turkish experts share Linden’s ideas.

“The fact that Armenia and Turkey and CE members provides an opportunity to MPs of the two countries to meet and discuss problems. I believe if you live in a region and you do not have actual open contacts: trade and economic, cultural and personal relations, you do not serve to the cause of securing a better future for your country. It is impossible to build a sustainable future in a region, where you are isolated from your neighbors. I am sure that looking in the future is in the interests of Armenia, not using the past to block it and look for peaceful solutions.

Turkey and Armenia territorial borders have been closed since Armenia occupied about 20 percent of Azerbaijan. Armenia also does not recognize Turkey's and Armenia's national borders. Turkey says that Armenia should respect the international borders, otherwise Turkey wii not open the borders. The ultra-nationalist Armenians are also against the opening of the borders.

Turkish Caucasian region expert Dr. Yesim Sahiner says that Armenia needs Turkey: "Armenia is a small country and the great Turkish market could be great opportunity for the Armenian businessmen. Turkey also provide job opportunities for the young Armenians. More than 50,000 Armenians illegally work in Istanbul already. The opening of the borders will definitely increase the number of Armenians who work in Turkey." According to Dr. Sahiner, the biggest obstruct before the opening of the borders is the radicals in the Armenian Diaspora: “There is a Turkish Enemy Industry among the Armenians. Some Armenian would lose their influence, jobs and money without problems with Turkey. If Turkey opens the territorial gates, all Armenians will realize that Turks are not monsters, and they do not hate Armenians. Actually an ordinary Turkish man does not care too much about the Armenians. Armenia is smaller than Ankara city in terms of population and economy” she added.

USAK Director Dr. Sedat Laciner argues that the nationalist Armenians have a territory-based approach: “Many Armenians are only speaking about territories. Ultra-nationalists want more territories. Armenian irredentism aims territories from Turkey, Georgia, Iran, Azerbaijan and even from Russia. However they cannot populate the tiny Armenian republic. The population of Armenia has dramatically decreased since the independence. However Turkey has no desire for more territory. As a matter of fact that territory is nothing if you have no wealthy nation. The most important things are security, stability and developed economy. Armenia has none of them. They have sacrificed all of them for Karabakh and surrounding Azeri territories. The opening of Turkish borders could give Armenia stability, security and a developing economy.”

Dr. Laciner says that Armenian issue is not vital for Turkish people: “Turkey can live with the Armenian issue. Armenians try to use the Armenian allegations as blackmail in Turkey’s European Union process. They follow the Greeks. However the Greeks failed, and the Armenians will fail. The foreign pressures on Turkey regarding the Greek or Armenian issues make Turkey less moderate in these issues. Armenian issue is not at the heart of Turkish politics. However Armenians put Turkey everywhere. Some Armenians live in the past and they are not aware that they lose today.”

Dr. Laciner says that the best solution to the problems is a Caucasian economic integration process:

“The Caucasian states are very small. Armenia in particular is a very small market which makes its economy less competitive. The security problems and the problems with the neigbours worsen the problems. Turkey, Georgia and Azerbaijan has increased economic co-operations and they gained the American, Israeli and European supports in economic issues. Thanks to the Western economic and political support, the Baku-Tiblisi-Ceyhan pipeline project has been completed. The new transportation projects will be finished in near future and the Caucasian economies will be integrated to the Turkey economy. The region will be a bridge between Europe and Asia. Armenia has lost a lot of time. It is understandable that the Genocide Issue is important for the Armenians, but they should also look at the current problems. Turkey does not say that a dialogue is impossible on the past. Turkish PM Erdogan invited the Armenian side to establish a joint commission to discuss the different historical thesis. The Armenians reject all of the offers. Yerevan adopts a ‘accept-or-shut-up’ approach. They listen to nothing but want to impose their own belief. This is not a good way to establish dialogue channels between the Turkish and Armenian peoples.”

1 May 2006
JTW

Monday , 01 May 2006

Link: http://www.turkishweekly.net/news.php?id=30840