Armenian-Turkish Relations

[Anoush]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Anoush you are thinking with your emotions. If arf was so good and knew what it was doing it would be in power but...The treaties previously signed are meaningless, it is the powerful countries who decide who does what and to go against them is suicide. As usual everyone is panicking prematurly. Just chill and lets see what happens, we may all be surprised at the end.

And you're not thinking at all. I don't see how you base your arguments by saying that Russia will protect us. Are the Russians protecting our rights now? They simply want us to give in as the US and Israel to each and every of turkey's whims. And you call that protection? I don't see anything good coming out of these concessions to turkey. None whatsoever. Yes, lets see what'll happen.

[gegev]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

You're quite right on this point, but lets think for a moment... in whose favor will such protocols be interpreted? In the favor of the weaker or stronger state? Obviously the stronger. So by Armenia signing the document, it is already an admission that these things will be judged in Turkey's favor. They will set up a commission to decide whether or not there was a genocide, and if Armenia refuses Turkey will use it as bait to tell the world, "look, Armenia was willing to open a commission, and now they're backing out, so they are backing out of the protocols and we cannot establish diplomatic relations".

So what would you recommend? Agreeing to a "historical commission"? Lets see the possible pros and cons of this:

1. In the best-case scenario, the historical commission will take us back to zero, in other words, it will say there was an Armenian Genocide. Great, we are back to square one, waiting for Turkey to accept it. Nowhere in the protocol does it say Turkey has to accept the decision of the commission, and if they did, there is no way in hell they would sign the document unless they knew 100% that the commission was paid off in their favor.

2. More likely, the commission will either reject that it was a genocide, or it will reach a stalemate. Both cases are detrimental to us, because Turkey can say "the commission could not prove it was genocide", and use that as propaganda for many years to come.

I know that Armenia is doing this for Russia's economic benefit. So why do they need to set up a commission of historians? Why do they need to make Armenia recognize Turkey's fake borders, and give up our legal claim to western Armenia? Is this really in Russia's interest? No. We can open borders without touching any of these issues, but Turkey and the US insist that they include these provisions. We should talk to Russia and say look, we are ready to open the border if you get these issues off the agenda. If they say sorry we can't do that, then say sorry we can't accept these proposals. If need be, we should drag Russia into this issue, whether they like it or not, because this is all their idea in the first place.


As to accepting the fake borders... once we give up our legal claim to western Armenia, our country will forever imprison itself as a landlocked, resourceless, tiny republic, doomed to an eternity of weakness. They are asking Armenia to agree to tie a noose around its own neck, so that Turkey can kick the box from under our legs in a few decades.

Thanks.
Instead of cursing out of topic, or quoting Turk pleasing articles like Safrastyan’s, it would be better to analyze the situation, as you did.
Great!

[Anoush]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Very unfortunately I have expected the Israelite Jews and turkey to succed. Do you people remember in March of 2009 about the Think Tank group that was formed from all turkish and all J'ewish ex president of Israel and ex ambassadors and government officials of turkey to once and for all at the very least for their behalf to put the Armenian Genocide at a back burner? Well all of these as if the opening of borders with turkey and enforcing the pre-conditions it is all what the Israelites and turks' disgusting belligerent "think-tanks" came together to enforce the US and Russia against Armenia and our vital rights and also to put the Armenian Genocide on a back burner. If and when Sargsyan signs their "road map" protocol rules; he will be signing what that disgusting "think tank"s pre-wrote for the future death of our sovereighnty.

We should see to it that Sargsyan does not sign their unwanted "road-map and protocols", as undoubtedly will not be for our behalf but only to theirs.

[Mukuch]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Anoush you are thinking with your emotions. If arf was so good and knew what it was doing it would be in power but...The treaties previously signed are meaningless, it is the powerful countries who decide who does what and to go against them is suicide. As usual everyone is panicking prematurly. Just chill and lets see what happens, we may all be surprised at the end.

1.In Armenia getting to the power has nothing to do with being competent or popular but rather with ability to bye and forge votes. Dashnaks actually voluntarily resigned of their few posts in government as a protest of this traitor foreign policy.
2. Going against superpowers for defending your own national interests is not always suicide but sometimes the only way to survive and get their respect.

[Anoush]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

2. Going against superpowers for defending your own national interests is not always suicide but sometimes the only way to survive and get their respect.

That's right!!! These incedences reminds me and am going back to our older days when we had the ruling king and our several state ruling princes. If and when one or two of the princes became traitors to our supreme king; most of the time they did not get the respect they well thought that they'll get from the enemy. Instead our enemy was disgusted by our traitors and did not give them any respect and killed them too.

We must be united, we must show our enemies and the superpowers of these times that we will not give in to our rights. Basically our right to survive in this wicked world.

[Dashnak]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Anoush jan,

I greatly admire your patriotism, your analytical skills and your in-depth knowledge. Nationalists like you fill my heart with hope and pride. May God bless you and your family my dear sister.

P.S. I apologize for my directness but that’s just the way I’m: A straight shooter.

P.S.S. I wish I wasn't as busy as I'm because I'd like participate in this forum more often. Hopefully I'll be able to do so in the future.

[Mukuch]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Armenia has no choice, it must align its interests with russias even when they are not the same so that it can continue to exist. We are very lucky that Russia sees panturckism as a threat to its national security and uses us to prevent it or else there would not be a Armenia to speak of today. Bottom line-russia guerentees our security and we pay for it by giving up much of our sovreignty. Good or bad thats how it is and it is not going to change anytime soon and if it does change we are in deep xxxx. Be carefull what the Mukuch types wish for because if they get it, if russia really says to hell with you armenians then we are truelly screwed. During soviet times Armenia was one of the best places to live in the whole union and the people were educated, healthy and polite. Here we are 20 years later and Armenia still has not reached its soviet days standard of living. Add to this war, earthquake,blockade.. and you start to wonder why there are still people living there at all. You cannot keep jeapordise what little there is left of our homeland by saying lets keep fighting and not nagotiate because even the strongest of fighters are bound to lose if they keep fighting, and armenia is not that strong to begin with

OK, lets not "jeapordise what little there left of our homeland", we cant fight for it as we are week LETS JUST GIVE IT TO TURKS WITHOUT FIGHT, becaus our big brother Russia demands it !

xxxx you and xxxx Russia!

We are in this deep xxxx (with this Protocols) mostly becaus Russia wants to pass their pipeline by turkey and turks own russian ass right now.

Look at this Russian/Soviet/Communist PISS of propaganda LOL

[AR MENIA]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

You're not alone on this one Anoush. I dont know whats going through Serj's mind, But i can tell that i'm very dissapointed with him at the moment.

turkey only wants to expand it's own influence in the region in order to become a bigger power then it already is. Serj is doing turkey a bigger favor then vice versa.

So in the near future we have to depend on turkey again, we saw what happened the last time. It's not even 100 years ago that the turks tried to kill the entire Armenian population and now a few Armenians want to work with turks on behalf of all Armenians around the world? What a traitor that Sargsyan is.

I think some one should send Sargsyan a good "message" so that he knows that there are Armenians that dont tolerate this kind of actions.

[AR MENIA]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Look at this Russian/Soviet/Communist PISS of propaganda LOL

It is obviuse she has no xxxxen idea what she is talking about.!

We are in this deep xxxx (with this Protocols) mostly becaus Russia wants to pass their pipeline by turkey and turks own russian ass right now.

So xxxx you and xxxx Russia!

2 times..

@ Haykakan,

Do you really really really think that Russia would fight against turkey for Armenia? Is this kindergarten? Russia is starting to become a superpower again, if they would fight against turkey they jeopardize everything they have been working for, do you really believe Russia would give everything up to protect 2,9 million Armenians! they dont care about us, they only care about theirselves, which is very normal if you ask me.

The republic doesnt even exists for 20 years, it had to deal with a major earthquake, war, blockades on the east and the west and it has almost no natural resources so what do you expect?

I was in Armenia a few weeks ago and i noticed that Armenia's biggest problem is unemployment and low wages. But like i said earlier, Armenia doesn't even exists for 20 years. In the future everything will turn out good.

Why there are people living there at all? They probably care about Armenia! atleast the ones that dont intend to move somewhere else.

And Armenia is strong enought to f..k up azerbeidjan and Georgia, thats the only thing that matters.

[Alexandros]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

2 times..

@ Haykakan,

Do you really really really think that Russia would fight against turkey for Armenia? Is this kindergarten? Russia is starting to become a superpower again, if they would fight against turkey they jeopardize everything they have been working for, do you really believe Russia would give everything up to protect 2,9 million Armenians! they dont care about us, they only care about theirselves, which is very normal if you ask me.

Had Armenia not had the strong ties they have with Russia: CSTO, Russian military bases in Armenia, Armenia`s geostrategic position in Caucuses...etc Turkey would had invaded Armenia a long time ago.It was Russia that stopped Turkey to invade Armenia back in 1992/1993.