Armenian-Turkish Relations

[Anoush]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

The Tamil's were blocking and protesting on highways here in Toronto not too long ago to make people aware of what was going on back in their homeland of Sri Lanka. They weren't violent and I'm sure they made the ignorant and racists more than angry with their protests but they also made many others aware of what was happening on the other side of the world. Needless to say it got lots of news coverage. It's not like members in the Canadian government don't know what is happening on other parts of the world, I'm sure they are actively aware if not directly part of the problem since they are responsible for the immigration of those escaping the turmoil. You can't hide and silence an issue when thousands of people are actively protesting. I just wish all Armenians were as informed about Armenia's politics as some of those on this forum. I think some of our elders are failing our youth.

Yes KndHye, I am in agreement with you. I will make a proposal to Anca and through them to Tashnagtsoutyoun to protest in Washington. That sounds pretty good to me too. And you guys can do it in Ottawa. But most of us can also do protests on highways and on the streets too, why not. We have to start it ourselves too until they start recognising us.

Unfortunately most Armenians dear KanadaHye in the US, they go to Church sometimes on Sundays and they call themselves Armenians. Their heart doesn't throb as our hearts do. It is really a crying matter for me, as you and most of us on this or other Armenian Forums do come here pretty often and are aware to what is going on in the world and for Armenia and Artsakh and by staying in touch and aware is what makes us to be what we are. Especially nowadays, I can't let a day go by without actively looking and reading the Armenian news and here too and another Forum to see what's going on with our country. I wish most of the Diasporans were like us; otherwise, we would have been a stronger and a better country by now. I came across yesterday a letter from Anca that are asking us to send to both our Congressman and which I did right away and I sent to 10 other individuals to do the same - we were asking for the congressman to actively see for us what is going on in Washington and actively fight for our cause. If every Armenian or let's say two thirds of the Armenians did the same in the US, I think we would go places. People undermine Tashnagtsoutyoun, but that's exactly what the ARF does to their members in the Diaspora for many many years now. They make them to be much more patriotic Armenians than they are. Their role in the Diaspora has been extraordinary and they don't give up and they shouldn't.

[Anoush]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Anoush jan,

I greatly admire your patriotism, your analytical skills and your in-depth knowledge. Nationalists like you fill my heart with hope and pride. May God bless you and your family my dear sister.

P.S. I apologize for my directness but that’s just the way I’m: A straight shooter.

P.S.S. I wish I wasn't as busy as I'm because I'd like participate in this forum more often. Hopefully I'll be able to do so in the future.

Thank you my Dashnak friend/brother for your very kind words. I also wish the same goodwill towards you and everyone you love.

[Anoush]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Although i am not against a effective dictatorship i will say i agree with your point that most diaspora armenians talk big because they know it is not going to effect them directly. If they lived in Armenia they would be singing a entirely different tune.

I know that you and UrMistake are addressing it to me, and but you think that my bloodpressure doesn't go up everytime I read the frightening news that are being said about Armenia and Artsakh? I don't own a house, I don't give a darn about money and I adore Armenia and Artsakh and her survival, which means just as much for me as my daughter and my loved ones. Otherwise, I wouldn't spend a good deal of my time going around these forums or other forums as well as actively looking in the Arm. news and working with other Armenian organizations. You and UrMistake are definitely mistaken big time. Most of the time, I can't even sleep when I hear the bad news and the frightening news that's going in and around Armenia and Artsakh. It's too bad that neither one of you guys have gotten to know me yet, but it's OK. I don't matter one bit next to our both sacred causes; the well being and the continuation of the survival of our Armenia and Artsakh.

[Anoush]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

I wonder what Vartan Oskanian and his "Civilitas" think-thank organisation think about 'the Protocols'. Kocharian was spotted in Stepanakert yesterday and he seemed to be cautiously optimistic about 'the Protocols' which is eyebrow raising given how he had openly stated his disagreements with Serge's openness to the Turks just a few months back.

Fed jan, It seems to me that both the ARF and the Jarankoutyoun parties will have them reveal what 'the Protocols' fully consist of. Oh they have to have them reveal it for the people - and to know them soon.

[gegev]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Who are the typical Armenian girl/women?

The ones who are able to pronounce a resolute no, each time, when an offer/action violates her core values, self esteem, personal or other settled plans, actions.

Who are the typical Armenian men?

The ones who possess all the values above and, as a reaction to the insulting words/actions is able to fight and force the foe to take it back.

Who should be the man that deserves to be a country’s president?

The one who is able to do all things listed above and, in addition, in most difficult situations, when enforced by the mighty to say, to do something that violates the Armenian interests or core values; resolutely abstaining from the final answer/settlement indefinitely. Or until it is agreed with most of influential politicians who truly are representing majority of Armenian nation here in Armenia and abroad.

Practice makes perfect.

[Gavur]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

ARF Western US Statement On Proposed Armenia-Turkey Protocols
By Asbarez Staff on Sep 2nd, 2009 and filed under Community, Featured Story, News.


Print This | ShareThis
The Armenian Revolutionary Federation of the Western United States comes before the Armenian nation to express its profound concerns on the so-called protocols for the normalization of bilateral relations between Armenia and Turkey.

The ARF, as one of the oldest Armenian national organizations outside the Armenian Church, has always advocated the establishment of not only diplomatic but friendly diplomatic relations between the Armenian and Turkish Republics. However, these relations cannot be based upon a capitulation of Armenian national rights arising from the Genocide committed against the Armenian nation that decimated its population, destroyed its cultural heritage and usurped its ancestral homeland.

First, the so-called “Protocols” provide for a clear surrender of Armenian national rights by recognizing the “inviolability of Turkish territory,” significant parts of which have a cloud over their lawful title. Included within this “territory” are large parts of modern Turkey that had been lawfully awarded to and recognized to be part of the Armenian Republic in 1920 and earlier. Much of that territory has been illegally taken from the Armenian nation through force, coercion and through the use of internationally condemned illegal and wrongful means.

Second, the clause referring to the parties agreeing to “refrain from pursuing any policy incompatible with the spirit of good neighborly relations,” is objectionable for its vagueness and hidden objectives. This clause will be interpreted by Turkey as meaning that Armenia will abandon its support for the international recognition of the Armenian Genocide and its lawful entitlement to territorial and compensatory reparations from Turkey. Conversely, it is the ARF’s view that this clause must explicitly require Turkey to immediately and forever cease its shameful and reprehensible campaign of denying the Armenian Genocide and at evading its obligations for reparations to the Armenian people.

Third, the “Protocols” pointedly stipulate that Armenia must agree to “implement a dialogue on the historical dimension… including an impartial scientific examination of historical records and archives to define existing problems…” This deceitful and most dangerous clause is a flagrant attempt to turn the obvious 94 year old political and legal controversy of the Armenian Genocide into an historical controversy. The fact of the Genocide has never been doubted by impartial historians and is reflected in the firsthand testimonies of not only its witnesses and its victims, but even in the testimony of its perpetrators dating back to post war Turkish tribunals and to the recent autobiographical revelations of Talaat Pasha’s own diary entries. Any agreement which entrusts political entities to re-undertake a “scientific examination” of the Genocide is a dangerous ploy, as well as an insult to the one and half million Armenian victims and to their survivors and progeny who have been dispossessed of their patrimony and their millennial old ancestral homeland. This, the Armenian nation cannot and will not accept.

Was it not only a year ago that the U.S. State Department, in a letter signed by Acting Assistant Secretary of State Matthew A. Reynolds, affirmed its official policy to then Chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee Joseph Biden when it stated: “Our goal is to help archivists protect the evidence of the past so that future generations will have the documentation of the mass killings and deportation of Armenian committed by Ottoman soldiers and other Ottoman officials in 1915. Our goal is not to open a debate on whether the Ottomans committed these horrendous acts; it to to help preserve the documentation that supports the truth of those events…the Administration recognizes that the mass killings, ethnic cleansing, and forced deportations of over one and half million Armenians were conducted by the Ottoman Empire. We indeed hold Ottoman officials responsible for those crimes.”

We look to the Armenian government to take heed of the official public policy expressed by the United States government in July of 2008 and not be trapped, coerced or otherwise blackmailed into negating its own Genocide. History will not look favorably upon the authors of such a monumental disaster.

Once again we look forward to the establishment of good relations with Turkey, but those relations cannot be based on lies and upon coercion, but must begin with acknowledgment of the mistakes of the past and the proper measure of atonement to a create an honest atmosphere of true good faith if we are ever to get on with our children’s futures.

The Armenian government cannot and is not allowed to compromise the truth, to surrender our rights, and to endanger our national security.

September 1, 2009
Central Committee Of The
Armenian Revolutionary Federation
Of Western United States

[KanadaHye]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

third, the “protocols” pointedly stipulate that armenia must agree to “implement a dialogue on the historical dimension… including an impartial scientific examination of historical records and archives to define existing problems…” this deceitful and most dangerous clause is a flagrant attempt to turn the obvious 94 year old political and legal controversy of the armenian genocide into an historical controversy. The fact of the genocide has never been doubted by impartial historians and is reflected in the firsthand testimonies of not only its witnesses and its victims, but even in the testimony of its perpetrators dating back to post war turkish tribunals and to the recent autobiographical revelations of talaat pasha’s own diary entries. Any agreement which entrusts political entities to re-undertake a “scientific examination” of the genocide is a dangerous ploy, as well as an insult to the one and half million armenian victims and to their survivors and progeny who have been dispossessed of their patrimony and their millennial old ancestral homeland. This, the armenian nation cannot and will not accept.

Amen!

[Gavur]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

I don't know why we are afraid of dialogue, that is all it seem to stipulate, a dialogue that is not interdependent on anything else.Has anyone wondered if this is how the today's Turkish leadership (who btw are also the opposition)through this dialogue, will at least discuss and possibly adopt through its parliament certain facts of history, or am I dreaming.

[Gavur]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Btw, ARF release makes a compelling case, in a nicely worded essay. I'm just disappointed it took so long for them to express it in this civilized tone.

[Gavur]

Re: Armenian-Turkish Relations

Also it is not us, them or anyone, other then Turks themselves, that will recouncil for themselves their own history (Katch Hrant Dink was absolutely right on this one). The Turkish government will accept the crimes committed by its predecessors when the dams of conscience break through in its people, and overtakes its banks like the river Aras.