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Elections in Armenia

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  • Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

    Originally posted by Armenian View Post
    Some of my thoughts regarding politics and the elections we just had in Armenia



    Thank God Serzh Sargsyan won the elections. We Armenians have pulled through again. Regardless of his flaws, Serzh Sargsyan was the best option we had for the presidency of the Armenian Republic. Despite the continuing corruption and poverty in Armenia, our nation is, nevertheless, going forward. Thus, this was no time to temper with that forward momentum. Armenia today is better than it was a year ago, five years ago, ten years ago, fifteen years ago... However, a fledgling nation will require much time to stand firmly on its two feet. Nevertheless, thanks to the current regime, our nation's borders today are secure, Artsakh is secure, the economy is growing, Yerevan is blossoming, international alliances are developing... And all this is happening despite the worst geopolitical conditions that can be imagined. As a result, we needed to keep the current authorities in power. The Caucasus is a volatile region. We are surrounded by corrupt and dangerous neighbors. We desperately need internal stability. Also, for all its worth, Moscow has strongly signaled that it wants to see the continuation of the current leadership. And Moscow today controls the region's geopolitics. We simply cannot afford to be on their bad side. Such an action would potentially be suicidal for the Armenian Republic.

    ***************************

    I also realize that majority of Armenians today have a minuscule understanding of international geopolitics and sociopolitical dynamics. Most diasporan Armenians are too engulfed with their massive egos to see what is good for the nation and most Armenians in Armenia are simply too impoverished and inexperienced to see what is good for their longterm prosperity. The aforementioned leads me to believe that the best option we have today is the continuation of the current regime.

    ***************************

    There were marked differences between Kocharyan's administration and Levin Petrostein's rule. The important differences for me were the strategic factors of our national interests, factors that were taken into serious account by the Republican Party of Robert Kocharyan: the protection of Artsakh's territorial integrity; Russian-Armenian relations; Iranian-Armenian relations; emphasis on building a strong and modern military; pursuit of Genocide recognition; having good relations with EU. What's more, taking into concideration that against all odds Armenia's economy has grown considerably during the last few years, I believe that Kocharyan's administration was quite successful during its ten year reign.

    ***************************

    I rather have Armenians living under a fascistic tyranny then under the leadership of a treasonous criminal like Levin. Many Armenians today see Levin as a threat to Armenia's national security. Thus, I would not have shed a single tear had the authorities ordered the army to crush any attempted uprising by Levin's idiotic followers. This is no time for dangerous and foolish experiments with democracy. It is not that I don't 'like' the term "democracy", it's just that true democracy, as preached by the western establishment, does not exist anywhere on earth. Simply stated, the lofty concept in question is used by the western elite to meddle in the internal affairs of lesser nations for the purpose of their selfish national interests. Consider the case of Kosovo: Its independence was given purely for geostrategic reasons stemming from the West's severe Russophobia and has nothing to do with self-determination, democracy, freedom, human right, etc. The plight of nations that truly deserve self-determination and independence, nations such as the Armenians of Nagorno Karabagh, Basques of Spain, Ossetians and Abkhazians of the Caucasus and the Kurds of Turkey, are simply ignored by the champions of freedom and democracy.

    ***************************

    I don't understand the indignation, or surprise for that matter, being expressed by some who are upset by what occurred in Kosovo. Albanians/Bosnian Muslims/Turks are the 'perfect group of people' to use as a balancing power against the region's Orthodox Slavs. Had I been a representative of the political elite in the West, I would have resorted to the same tactics as well. The point is, this is simply geopolitics, and a means to safeguard the West's immense wealth and power, one that has taken many centuries to accumulate. When we, the public, for once realize that concepts such as justice, religion, race, morality, law, democracy, human rights, etc, have absolutely 'nothing' to do with politics, we can then better prepare ourselves for these types of developments. Sadly, the vast majority of the people on earth, even the brightest amongst us, do not comprehend the true nature of politics. This gives the elite, the tiny minority that run the economic-political show on earth, the mandate to more-or-less do as they please. Thus, in final analysis, it is our fault, for they can only do what we allow them to do.

    ***************************

    All politicians are corrupt, without exception. All governments are run like the mafia, without exception. The difference between a nation like Armenia and western nations is that the West has accumulated immense wealth over centuries of colonization and exploitation. Today, the "crumb" that falls off the table of the western elite is more than enough for average westerns to live very-very well with. Thus, it's all a matter of perception and relativity. Sadly, albeit quite naturally, the hungry masses in Armenia have no time for political objectivity nor do they care about historic perspective. However, that being said, this does not mean that the leadership in Armenia must listen to the ignorant masses. Even if it exists, such a thing like democracy would not work for nations like Armenia.

    ***************************

    Complaints about Armenia's economy are merely sentimental, emotion derived, coming from frustration and have no basis on reality. Tiny, landlocked, blockaded, without natural resources, with an inexperienced population, in a very complicated and difficult region of the world - the socioeconomic and geopolitical situation of Armenia today is extremely complex, to say the least. As a result, there will be no quick fixes. Nor should attempts be made at the expense of our longterm geostrategic concerns such as Artsakh and the Armenian Genocide. Thus, no administration will be able to cure all of Armenia's ailments. Armenia does not have a treasury that has been accumulating wealth over the centuries. Armenia has not had nationhood for centuries. Armenia has been broke and friendless from day one. What's more, many of Armenia's problems are not within its control, they emanate from abroad.

    ***************************

    The West is not our friend. Western organizations in Armenia should be looked upon with suspicion and western money should be rejected. The West is merely interested in itself. Unlike Turkey and Azerbaijan, we Armenians don't serve western interests, at least for the foreseeable future. Thus, we need to forget about the West providing Armenia with substantial assistance, other than a few dollars they throw here and there to fund "democracy" movements... Nevertheless, with its national borders secure, with Artsakh secure, with gradual growth of its economy, with its strategic alliance with Russia, Armenia is definitely headed towards the right direction. However, it will be a long and difficult road ahead.

    ***************************

    It is easy to see how Levin Petrostein makes Serzh Sargsyan look like an angel. Thus, I simply cannot believe that there are Armenians today who are actually supporting him. This proves to me beyond doubt that we Armenians are 'not' ready for any form of democracy. A true democracy can only be achieved by a highly educated, highly responsible electorate, one that can portray a keen understanding of geopolitics and history. As a result, I don't think idiots (the masses) should be given the right to choose their leaders. Such an attempt would be suicidal for vulnerable nations. The point is: Armenia needs to continue on the course it is on today. In that respects, the Republican Party in Armenia is the best option for the nation at this time. Armenia's close relations with Russia (and Iran) is the 'only' option for the landlocked blockaded nation. Armenia's steadfast support for Artsakh is crucial for the survival of the Armenian state. Armenia's pursuit of Genocide recognition is of vital geopolitical importance.

    ****************************

    Voting, or being a part of the electoral process, can not be a right, it must be a privilege. The fact that there are substantial numbers of Levin supporters reveals beyond doubt that the Armenian nation is 'not' ready for free and fair elections. Things of importance in civilized nations requires its citizens to obtain a license (or a certificate, or a certain amount of training) to perform. How is it than that the most important of all responsibilities that a nation has, namely that of electing its leadership, is expected to be entrusted upon the sentiments of the ignorant masses? I believe that a nation's citizenry must be highly educated, highly responsible and portray a keen understanding of geopolitics and history - before they are allowed the 'privilege' to vote.

    ****************************

    After the fall of the Communist regime, it was Russian nationalists that wanted Armenians to win the war against the Azeris. Thus, they supplied Armenia with modern arms to fight with. Without the Russian advisers, tanks, ammunition, military intelligence, anti-aircraft missiles, etc, Artsakh today would be in Azeri hands despite our best human efforts. In short: The Russian Federation desperately needs Armenians as a ally in the south Caucasus as a bulwork against the further spread of NATO, against the spread of Pan-Turkism, and against the spread of Iranian influence. Armenia's only option is with closer relations with the Russian Federation, even if this comes at the expense of hurting Armenia's relations with others.

    ****************************

    Instead of "monitoring" elections, western organizations such as the OSCE should mind their own business. Who gave these criminals the moral right to oversee anything? And taking money form these types of organizations is like taking money form a loan shark, for these organizations pray on vulnerable nations in need of financial assistance.

    ****************************

    Before complaining about corruption, let's first realize that virtually every country on earth is more-or-less run by criminals. As a matter of fact, western leadership are amongst the worst criminals on earth. This is in essence the very nature of politics. So, let's all get used to it, let's learn to deal with it, and let's move forward from here by taking it into consideration.
    Good work. I appreciate your synopsis.

    Comment


    • Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

      Originally posted by crusader1492 View Post
      I disagree...I say take their money if they want to give it...and if they expect somthing in return (that goes against Armenia's national interest) they can go pound sand. In the case of the election, Armenia will gain a lot in foreign aid money by entertaining election monitors while at the same time, Serge stays in power. This is just a game...and it looks like the powers that be in Armenia are playing it well.
      Crusader, at face value I agree with you. Yes, take their money and give them lip service. However, it's not that simple in the real world. You are way too confident with our abilities as a nation. By inviting these foreign trouble makers into our nation we are also inviting in a whole slew of NGOs and various other organizations who's sole purpose is to foment public discord. These people have unlimited funds, unsurpassed experience and immense power. In comparison, take a close look at our sociopolitical situation and realize how vulnerable it is. Moreover, when we take money from them we essentially turn our corrupt politicians into baggers willing to do anything for a quick dollar. And taking money form these foreign bodies also makes our political system somewhat dependent on them. A lot of what I'm stating has already been happening. Remember this is exactly how they brought mighty Russia to its knees during the 1990s. The fact is, politicians will even sell their mothers for a few dollars; our population still expects handouts; and a shit load of NGOs are already conditioning the minds of the naive public with "freedom and democracy" BS as we speak. With the unexpected participation of Levin Petrostein, this election opened a lot of old wounds that many thought time had healed. And what's more alarming here is the fact that 'several hundred thousands' Armenians, by government estimates, voted for this treasonous criminal. This is unacceptable and it's absolutely absurd. So, if I were you I would not be very confident about the political system in Armenia. Yes, today the political system in Armenia is in the hands of a few strongmen who understand the important of Artsakh, Genocide recognition and Armenia's close relations with Moscow. However, this could easily change if we are not careful.
      Մեր ժողովուրդն արանց հայրենասիրութեան այն է, ինչ որ մի մարմին' առանց հոգու:

      Նժդեհ


      Please visit me at my Heralding the Rise of Russia blog: http://theriseofrussia.blogspot.com/

      Comment


      • Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

        You people want to see just how f***ing stupid Armenians can be? Take a look at this:

        Երեւան. 20.02.08: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ri5REHi37CQ&eurl
        Մեր ժողովուրդն արանց հայրենասիրութեան այն է, ինչ որ մի մարմին' առանց հոգու:

        Նժդեհ


        Please visit me at my Heralding the Rise of Russia blog: http://theriseofrussia.blogspot.com/

        Comment


        • Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

          Originally posted by Armenian View Post
          Crusader, at face value I agree with you. Yes, take their money and give them lip service. However, it's not that simple in the real world. You are way too confident with our abilities as a nation. By inviting these foreign trouble makers into our nation we are also inviting in a whole slew of NGOs and various other organizations who's sole purpose is to foment public discord. These people have unlimited funds, unsurpassed experience and immense power. In comparison, take a close look at our sociopolitical situation and realize how vulnerable it is. Moreover, when we take money from them we essentially turn our corrupt politicians into baggers willing to do anything for a quick dollar. And taking money form these foreign bodies also makes our political system somewhat dependent on them. A lot of what I'm stating has already been happening. Remember this is exactly how they brought mighty Russia to its knees during the 1990s. The fact is, politicians will even sell their mothers for a few dollars; our population still expects handouts; and a shit load of NGOs are already conditioning the minds of the naive public with "freedom and democracy" BS as we speak. With the unexpected participation of Levin Petrostein, this election opened a lot of old wounds that many thought time had healed. And what's more alarming here is the fact that 'several hundred thousands' Armenians, by government estimates, voted for this treasonous criminal. This is unacceptable and it's absolutely absurd. So, if I were you I would not be very confident about the political system in Armenia. Yes, today the political system in Armenia is in the hands of a few strongmen who understand the important of Artsakh, Genocide recognition and Armenia's close relations with Moscow. However, this could easily change if we are not careful.
          All I can say to you is that your argument is much stronger than mine. Thanks for the elaboration...I now understand that my position was short sighted.

          Comment


          • Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

            Originally posted by Armenian View Post
            You people want to see just how f***ing stupid Armenians can be? Take a look at this:

            Երեւան. 20.02.08: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ri5REHi37CQ&eurl
            When you go live there and be a citizen of Armenian, only then you can voice your opinion.

            Comment


            • Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

              Armenian affairs analyst in Armenia claims initial response in D.C. over elections is "concern and outrage". http://armenianow.com/?action=viewAr...1&IID=&lng=eng

              Chinese media source reports U.S. State Department is 'officially' concerned about election violations citing quotes from State Department Official. http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/20...nt_7638109.htm

              http://video.state.gov/index.jsp?fr_...79938e6e548986 (State Dept. briefing touches on Kosovo's independence, impact of same on Palestine, breakdown of Annapolis accord, first round of elections in Cyprus, Africa but declines to answer question on Armenian elections deferring to posted response.)

              UPI report re: election results, observers opinions re: election, recent protest and general background including observation that protests after elections is nothing new in Armenia. http://ca.reuters.com/article/topNew...nnel=0&sp=true

              NY Times article re: election results, protest, observers opinions and position of LTP supporter and media leader that there were violations and it could cause tension in Armenia. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/21/wo...21armenia.html

              AP report detailing protest challenging election. http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5h...9rHDgD8UU9LMO1

              Russian media report re: protest including quote from Yerevan Mayor that opposition will continue to end and include non-traditional protest methods. http://www.itar-tass.com/eng/level2....7233&PageNum=0

              Putin congratulates Sargsyan, noting strengthened relations between Armenia and Russia and encouragement that Sargsyan's past contributions to those relations shall continue when he is President. http://www.itar-tass.com/eng/level2....7235&PageNum=0
              Between childhood, boyhood,
              adolescence
              & manhood (maturity) there
              should be sharp lines drawn w/
              Tests, deaths, feats, rites
              stories, songs & judgements

              - Morrison, Jim. Wilderness, vol. 1, p. 22

              Comment


              • Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

                Originally posted by Fedayeen View Post
                When you go live there and be a citizen of Armenian, only then you can voice your opinion.
                Certainly, opinions from Armenians in Armenia about the conditions on the ground there are likely more credible, I don't think you need to live there or be a citizen there to have an opinion about it.

                You probably don't make basturma, but you can opine when the basturma you have had is good or bad.
                Between childhood, boyhood,
                adolescence
                & manhood (maturity) there
                should be sharp lines drawn w/
                Tests, deaths, feats, rites
                stories, songs & judgements

                - Morrison, Jim. Wilderness, vol. 1, p. 22

                Comment


                • Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

                  Originally posted by Fedayeen View Post
                  When you go live there and be a citizen of Armenian, only then you can voice your opinion.
                  You see "Fedayeen," this is another silly, if not utterly stupid, comment by you. You have to "live there" to have an "opinion"? No, silly boy. You have to live there (be a citizen) to be able to vote. Do you understand the difference? Incidentally, what about 'your' silly opinions on this board about corruption and crime and this and the that? Do 'you' live there? Didn't you or your family swear never to step foot there. Going by your logic, I suggest you keep your mouth shut about Armenian politics. Let's put you aside. What about the opinions of Artsakh and Freaky? Do they live there? Can they voice their ridicules opinions? The point is, besides being deeply concerned about the republic, I have enough 'stakes' there to voice an opinion. I suggest you grow up, Fedayeen.
                  Մեր ժողովուրդն արանց հայրենասիրութեան այն է, ինչ որ մի մարմին' առանց հոգու:

                  Նժդեհ


                  Please visit me at my Heralding the Rise of Russia blog: http://theriseofrussia.blogspot.com/

                  Comment


                  • Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

                    Yes you are correct, that didn't came up as I expected. excuse my wording.

                    I forgot, have you ever been in Armenia?

                    But yes for you to call bunch of people xxxxing stupid is very childish. Keep your stupid comments to yourself. Your not there, you don't know what the hell is going on. Just like on other discussions and my opinion on Armenia, I was there I saw with my own eyes whats going on, so please don't talk xxxx about what I think of my experience. And all you can do is bring it against me?

                    Again, don't you think you are better "armenian" from anybody else in here just because you read few books and your really good at putting words together on internet message board. All you do is call people names, categorize people in groups, and talk about how great of "armenian" you are.

                    You are so full of yourself, please stop it. Oh and i suggest to go there and take care of your 'stakes before Xarabaxtsik take it, or local government sells it to Iran.

                    Comment


                    • Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

                      Thousands in Armenia Protest Results of Presidential Election



                      Thousands gathered Wednesday in Yerevan, the capital of Armenia, to protest Tuesday’s presidential election, which they said had been rigged, although international observers evaluated it as relatively free and fair. On Wednesday, election officials declared Serge Sargsyan, the current prime minister, the winner, with 53 percent of the vote. The presidential election — the fifth since Armenia won independence from the Soviet Union in 1991 — pitted Mr. Sargsyan against Levon Ter-Petrosian, Armenia’s first president after the Soviet Union’s fall. Mr. Sargsyan is an ally of the current president, Robert Kocharian, who is stepping down because of term limits. The protests have so far not turned violent, as political protests have in many former Soviet states, including those in Armenia’s neighbors Georgia and Azerbaijan. Armenia is also bordered by Turkey and Iran. Still, they have cast a shadow over democracy in Armenia, a tiny landlocked country whose governments have tended to be more tolerant of dissent than those in many other post-Soviet states. “At the moment it looks quite serious,” said Boris Navasardian, president of the Yerevan Press Club, by telephone from Yerevan. “It could make some tension in the country.”

                      Arman Musinyan, a spokesman for Mr. Ter-Petrosian’s campaign, said: “It could hardly be called an election. There was an undeclared war against us.” Mr. Musinyan said the governing party used state resources to influence the vote and had engaged in double voting, ballot stuffing and physical intimidation. The worst violations, he said, were recorded in a suburb of Yerevan called Abovian. But a delegation of international observers from the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe said in a statement that the election had been fair, though it did acknowledge problems. The election “was conducted mostly in line with the country’s international commitments, although further improvements are necessary,” the organization said in a statement on Wednesday.

                      Armenia has a better democratic record than many other post-Soviet states, largely because of tense relations with Turkey and Azerbaijan and its lack of natural resources requires it to forge international alliances to survive. International observers gave the parliamentary election last year a stamp of approval. But democracy in Armenia had a turbulent start. In 1999, at least eight officials were killed, including the prime minister and the speaker of Parliament, when nationalist gunmen stormed Parliament. Mr. Navasardian said that the police might act to disperse the demonstrators, but that Mr. Ter-Petrosian was “a person who never recognizes that he lost,” and was unlikely to give up quickly. Mr. Musinyan said the protests would not stop until Armenia’s Central Electoral Commission annulled the results of the election. “The goal is to hold a new election,” he said.

                      Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/21/wo...tml?ref=europe
                      Մեր ժողովուրդն արանց հայրենասիրութեան այն է, ինչ որ մի մարմին' առանց հոգու:

                      Նժդեհ


                      Please visit me at my Heralding the Rise of Russia blog: http://theriseofrussia.blogspot.com/

                      Comment

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