Elections in Armenia

[freakyfreaky]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

Here are the AP and Reuters feeds reporting on the election wrap-up.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hjloddK2l45_KpFPz6JLhba9rHDgD8UTGRF00

http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSL1928758820080219

Armenian newssource reporting on election irregularities. http://www.panorama.am/en/politics/2.../19/mipxaxtum/

[Mos]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

I am watching H1 and Armenia, and it looks like Serzh is going to be the victor, at least thats what the latest numbers are saying

[crusader1492]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

I am watching H1 and Armenia, and it looks like Serzh is going to be the victor, at least thats what the latest numbers are saying

I read that LTP is having a fit due to his loss. He's claiming fraud and is planning to hold demonstrations tomorrow.

Do the citizens of Armenia give any credence to this sore loser? To me (even if there were some "irregularities"), he lost handily and now he is crying foul. For what purpose? Hasn't he screwed with Armenia enough?

BTW, there were hundreds of international monitors at the polls...I would like to hear what they have to say.

[Armenian]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

BTW, there were hundreds of international monitors at the polls...I would like to hear what they have to say.

Instead of saying that you should be saying who the f*** gave them the right to monitor anything. Comments like the one you just made more-or-less assumes that western bodies have this God given right to monitor the internal affairs of nations across the world. Therein lies the fundamental problem. Think about it. Who gave the OSCE the right to monitor anything? Why are we so naive? As far as "irregularities" are concerned, I wouldn't give a rat's ass had Serzhik rolled out the tanks on the pro-Levin Ter Petrostein demonstrators.

[Armenian]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

Take a look at the crap being reported by the English language tabloid, Hetq: http://www.hetq.am/eng/politics/

Here is my favorite:

Passengers in a black BMW with no license plate parked outside the Gegham Saryan School in Gyumri have been reported to be slipping money into the passports of prospective voters and directing them to vote for Serzh Sargsyan. Mikayel Hayrapetyan, President of the Conservative Party, was able to videotape the incident and his care is now being followed by a group of ‘skinheads'. Hayrapetyan has notified the police but they haven't yet responded to the call.

[crusader1492]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

Instead of saying that you should be saying who the f*** gave them the right to monitor anything. Comments like the one you just made more-or-less assumes that western bodies have this God given right to monitor the internal affairs of nations across the world. Therein lies the fundamental problem. Think about it. Who gave the OSCE the right to monitor anything? Why are we so naive? As far as "irregularities" are concerned, I wouldn't give a rat's ass had Serzhik rolled out the tanks on the pro-Levin Ter Petrostein demonstrators.

I'm aware of that and I share your sentiments. However, since they are there, I would lke for them to show that nothing scandalous went on during the elections. With that, I would hope this would shut LTP up so Armenia can get on with the impending issues at hand.

Also, I think Armenia should milk the west for all they are worth. From what I read, Armenia will be getting millions of dollars in aid if these observers deem the elections were "fair and open".
I'm sure the government put a good show on for them while keeping Serge/Kocharian in power...in the short term, the presence of these observers may be a win-win situation.

[crusader1492]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

European Parliament: Armenia election met international standards on the whole
19.02.2008 23:50 GMT+04:00
/PanARMENIAN.Net/ The presidential election in Armenia proceeded in compliance with international standards, said Thomas Gruner, member of the European Parliament mission.

“The elections were organized at a high level and polling stations facilities met the established norms. I attended 4 polling stations in Yerevan,” he said, pointing out to the high appearance of voters, IA Regnum reports.

The appearance at the RA presidential elections made 70%. 9 candidates run for the post. Observers from 39 local and 6 international organizations watched the election process.

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SHUT UP LTP

[freakyfreaky]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

Opposition supporters protest, LTP in fit of delusion claims to be the winner but for ballot-stuffing and other irregularities, observers satisfied that election was for the most part fair and in line with international concerns but that process needs improvement, Sargsyan wins in overwhelming landslide capturing presidency in first round. http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5h...9rHDgD8UU31NG1

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601085&sid=arWgLNWOxT6E&refer=europe

http://www.rferl.org/featuresarticle/2008/02/777c271a-124c-4285-ac24-8d8d428c4412.html

http://www.canada.com/topics/news/world/story.html?id=cdd67f91-6221-490d-97cf-ef6e7f944f7b&k=14502

http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=43951&sectionid=351020406

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/feb/20/4

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/20/AR2008022000622.html

A record 70% of eligible voters go to the polls. http://armenianow.com/?action=viewAr...1&IID=&lng=eng

OY threatens to appeal election results. http://www.panarmenian.net/news/eng/?nid=24960

[Armenian]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

Some of my thoughts regarding politics and the elections we just had in Armenia

Thank God Serzh Sargsyan won the elections. We Armenians have pulled through again. Regardless of his flaws, Serzh Sargsyan was the best option we had for the presidency of the Armenian Republic. Despite the continuing corruption and poverty in Armenia, our nation is, nevertheless, going forward. Thus, this was no time to temper with that forward momentum. Armenia today is better than it was a year ago, five years ago, ten years ago, fifteen years ago... However, a fledgling nation will require much time to stand firmly on its two feet. Nevertheless, thanks to the current regime, our nation's borders today are secure, Artsakh is secure, the economy is growing, Yerevan is blossoming, international alliances are developing... And all this is happening despite the worst geopolitical conditions that can be imagined. As a result, we needed to keep the current authorities in power. The Caucasus is a volatile region. We are surrounded by corrupt and dangerous neighbors. We desperately need internal stability. Also, for all its worth, Moscow has strongly signaled that it wants to see the continuation of the current leadership. And Moscow today controls the region's geopolitics. We simply cannot afford to be on their bad side. Such an action would potentially be suicidal for the Armenian Republic.

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I also realize that majority of Armenians today have a minuscule understanding of international geopolitics and sociopolitical dynamics. Most diasporan Armenians are too engulfed with their massive egos to see what is good for the nation and most Armenians in Armenia are simply too impoverished and inexperienced to see what is good for their longterm prosperity. The aforementioned leads me to believe that the best option we have today is the continuation of the current regime.

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There were marked differences between Kocharyan's administration and Levin Petrostein's rule. The important differences for me were the strategic factors of our national interests, factors that were taken into serious account by the Republican Party of Robert Kocharyan: the protection of Artsakh's territorial integrity; Russian-Armenian relations; Iranian-Armenian relations; emphasis on building a strong and modern military; pursuit of Genocide recognition; having good relations with EU. What's more, taking into concideration that against all odds Armenia's economy has grown considerably during the last few years, I believe that Kocharyan's administration was quite successful during its ten year reign.

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I rather have Armenians living under a fascistic tyranny then under the leadership of a treasonous criminal like Levin. Many Armenians today see Levin as a threat to Armenia's national security. Thus, I would not have shed a single tear had the authorities ordered the army to crush any attempted uprising by Levin's idiotic followers. This is no time for dangerous and foolish experiments with democracy. It is not that I don't 'like' the term "democracy", it's just that true democracy, as preached by the western establishment, does not exist anywhere on earth. Simply stated, the lofty concept in question is used by the western elite to meddle in the internal affairs of lesser nations for the purpose of their selfish national interests. Consider the case of Kosovo: Its independence was given purely for geostrategic reasons stemming from the West's severe Russophobia and has nothing to do with self-determination, democracy, freedom, human right, etc. The plight of nations that truly deserve self-determination and independence, nations such as the Armenians of Nagorno Karabagh, Basques of Spain, Ossetians and Abkhazians of the Caucasus and the Kurds of Turkey, are simply ignored by the champions of freedom and democracy.

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I don't understand the indignation, or surprise for that matter, being expressed by some who are upset by what occurred in Kosovo. Albanians/Bosnian Muslims/Turks are the 'perfect group of people' to use as a balancing power against the region's Orthodox Slavs. Had I been a representative of the political elite in the West, I would have resorted to the same tactics as well. The point is, this is simply geopolitics, and a means to safeguard the West's immense wealth and power, one that has taken many centuries to accumulate. When we, the public, for once realize that concepts such as justice, religion, race, morality, law, democracy, human rights, etc, have absolutely 'nothing' to do with politics, we can then better prepare ourselves for these types of developments. Sadly, the vast majority of the people on earth, even the brightest amongst us, do not comprehend the true nature of politics. This gives the elite, the tiny minority that run the economic-political show on earth, the mandate to more-or-less do as they please. Thus, in final analysis, it is our fault, for they can only do what we allow them to do.

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All politicians are corrupt, without exception. All governments are run like the mafia, without exception. The difference between a nation like Armenia and western nations is that the West has accumulated immense wealth over centuries of colonization and exploitation. Today, the "crumb" that falls off the table of the western elite is more than enough for average westerns to live very-very well with. Thus, it's all a matter of perception and relativity. Sadly, albeit quite naturally, the hungry masses in Armenia have no time for political objectivity nor do they care about historic perspective. However, that being said, this does not mean that the leadership in Armenia must listen to the ignorant masses. Even if it exists, such a thing like democracy would not work for nations like Armenia.

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Complaints about Armenia's economy are merely sentimental, emotion derived, coming from frustration and have no basis on reality. Tiny, landlocked, blockaded, without natural resources, with an inexperienced population, in a very complicated and difficult region of the world - the socioeconomic and geopolitical situation of Armenia today is extremely complex, to say the least. As a result, there will be no quick fixes. Nor should attempts be made at the expense of our longterm geostrategic concerns such as Artsakh and the Armenian Genocide. Thus, no administration will be able to cure all of Armenia's ailments. Armenia does not have a treasury that has been accumulating wealth over the centuries. Armenia has not had nationhood for centuries. Armenia has been broke and friendless from day one. What's more, many of Armenia's problems are not within its control, they emanate from abroad.

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The West is not our friend. Western organizations in Armenia should be looked upon with suspicion and western money should be rejected. The West is merely interested in itself. Unlike Turkey and Azerbaijan, we Armenians don't serve western interests, at least for the foreseeable future. Thus, we need to forget about the West providing Armenia with substantial assistance, other than a few dollars they throw here and there to fund "democracy" movements... Nevertheless, with its national borders secure, with Artsakh secure, with gradual growth of its economy, with its strategic alliance with Russia, Armenia is definitely headed towards the right direction. However, it will be a long and difficult road ahead.

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It is easy to see how Levin Petrostein makes Serzh Sargsyan look like an angel. Thus, I simply cannot believe that there are Armenians today who are actually supporting him. This proves to me beyond doubt that we Armenians are 'not' ready for any form of democracy. A true democracy can only be achieved by a highly educated, highly responsible electorate, one that can portray a keen understanding of geopolitics and history. As a result, I don't think idiots (the masses) should be given the right to choose their leaders. Such an attempt would be suicidal for vulnerable nations. The point is: Armenia needs to continue on the course it is on today. In that respects, the Republican Party in Armenia is the best option for the nation at this time. Armenia's close relations with Russia (and Iran) is the 'only' option for the landlocked blockaded nation. Armenia's steadfast support for Artsakh is crucial for the survival of the Armenian state. Armenia's pursuit of Genocide recognition is of vital geopolitical importance.

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Voting, or being a part of the electoral process, can not be a right, it must be a privilege. The fact that there are substantial numbers of Levin supporters reveals beyond doubt that the Armenian nation is 'not' ready for free and fair elections. Things of importance in civilized nations requires its citizens to obtain a license (or a certificate, or a certain amount of training) to perform. How is it than that the most important of all responsibilities that a nation has, namely that of electing its leadership, is expected to be entrusted upon the sentiments of the ignorant masses? I believe that a nation's citizenry must be highly educated, highly responsible and portray a keen understanding of geopolitics and history - before they are allowed the 'privilege' to vote.

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After the fall of the Communist regime, it was Russian nationalists that wanted Armenians to win the war against the Azeris. Thus, they supplied Armenia with modern arms to fight with. Without the Russian advisers, tanks, ammunition, military intelligence, anti-aircraft missiles, etc, Artsakh today would be in Azeri hands despite our best human efforts. In short: The Russian Federation desperately needs Armenians as a ally in the south Caucasus as a bulwork against the further spread of NATO, against the spread of Pan-Turkism, and against the spread of Iranian influence. Armenia's only option is with closer relations with the Russian Federation, even if this comes at the expense of hurting Armenia's relations with others.

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Instead of "monitoring" elections, western organizations such as the OSCE should mind their own business. Who gave these criminals the moral right to oversee anything? And taking money form these types of organizations is like taking money form a loan shark, for these organizations pray on vulnerable nations in need of financial assistance.

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Before complaining about corruption, let's first realize that virtually every country on earth is more-or-less run by criminals. As a matter of fact, western leadership are amongst the worst criminals on earth. This is in essence the very nature of politics. So, let's all get used to it, let's learn to deal with it, and let's move forward from here by taking it into consideration.

[crusader1492]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

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Instead of "monitoring" elections, western organizations such as the OSCE should mind their own business. Who gave these criminals the moral right to oversee anything? And taking money form these types of organizations is like taking money form a loan shark, for these organizations pray on vulnerable nations in need of financial assistance.

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I disagree...I say take their money if they want to give it...and if they expect somthing in return (that goes against Armenia's national interest) they can go pound sand.
In the case of the election, Armenia will gain a lot in foreign aid money by entertaining election monitors while at the same time, Serge stays in power.

This is just a game...and it looks like the powers that be in Armenia are playing it well.