Elections in Armenia

[freakyfreaky]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

LTP is claiming the Minister of Defense and military is with the opposition (http://www.eurasianet.org/department...v022108b.shtml ; http://www.panarmenian.net/news/eng/?nid=24990) , the protests continue (http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2...protests_N.htm) and another U.S. State Dept. official clarifies other purported 'official' statements on the integrity of the elections http://www.panarmenian.net/news/eng/?nid=24994).

The NKR issue is causing some of the turmoil. Armenians especially from the big city (i.e. Yeravantsis) and surrounding enclaves do not necessarily like Karabakhis (i.e. Kocharian, Sargsyan) running their country. Fedayeen's position confirms some of the chatter on the street.

Here, some of Ara Baliozian's opponents are actually emulating the same things they claim to dislike about his opinions.

[Artsakh]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

Already, one member of the governing Republican Party of Armenia, one member of the party’s parliamentary faction, and five members of the Armenian Revolutionary Federation have joined the Ter-Petrosian camp out of sympathy with other groups of Karabakh war veterans. An additional Republican Party member, parliamentarian Hakob Hakobyan, has also switched sides.

According to Ter-Petrosian, who officially lost to government candidate Prime Minister Serzh Sarkisian in Tuesday’s presidential election, two deputy defense ministers -- General Manvel Grigorian, leader of a prominent Nagorno Karabakh war veterans group, and General Gagik Melkonian -- support his call for the results to be thrown out.

Without elaborating, Ter-Petrosian added that negotiations are being conducted between the two deputy defense ministers and Chief of the General Staff Seyran Ohanian. The former president expressed confidence that the whole army command would join the two deputy ministers.

One close associate of Grigorian who said that he had attended the discussions between the general and Ter-Petrosian, affirmed the information, however. "If the people are with Levon, he is with the people," the associate, who asked not to be named, said in reference to Grigorian. "The general has always taken the side of the people."

http://www.eurasianet.org/departments/insight/articles/eav022108b.shtml

[Armenian]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

btw. levon said he had a "surprise" for today do any of you know what this "surprise" was?

From reports I have been getting I think he was to have Alexander Arzumanyan give him a public circumcision on stage during the protests. I think Levin might have had stage fright, they had to call the procedure off when they could not find anything to cut...

Բայց լուրջ, երբ լսեցի որ մի քանի հարույր հազար քաղաքացիներ մեր երկրում այդ անասունին նրանց ձայն/քվե տվել են, կարծես մեկը իմ վրաս պաղ ջուր թափեց: Այս ներկա վիճակը մեր երկրում անընդունելի է, անհավատալի է, ցավալի է, և հիասթափիչ: Լևոն Տեր Պետրոսյանի աջակցողները այսոր տխուր փաստ են իմ համար որ մեր երկիրը «պատրաստ չէ» ունենալու ինչպես ասաց «ազադ և արդար» ընտրություններ: Ազատ և արդար ընտրություններ ունենալ մեր երկրի համար կարող է «ինքնասպանություն» լինի: Մեր երկրի ապագան չենք կարող վստահել անտեղյակ և կույր հասարակության վռա: Իմ կարծիքով, նախկան քվեարկութան մասնակցելու արտոնություն տրվի, մեր երկրի քաղաքացիները պետք է կարողանան ցուցադրել երկրաքաղաքական հասկացողություն, հասարակական պատասխանատվություն և միջազգային պատմության խոր ըմբռնում: Քվեարկություն պետքէ արտոնություն լինի և վոչ «իրավունք»:

[Armenian]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

Yerp vor do dartsar Hayastani qaghaqatsi, ayn jamanak do iravunk kunenas xoselu "mer Yerkri" masin, yeghav? Minchev ayn, do parzapes Amerika-Arab es.

Ապուշ, դու Հայաստանի քաղաքացի ե՞ս: Ինչպես որ միչտ, վորիցդ ես խոսում:

Amerika-Arab? What the f*** are you talking about

[aray]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

To be honest I am not so surprised by the number of the idiots that we have on the streets of Yerevan supporting Levon. Each nation has its share of idiots. Look at USA, who would think that moron like Bush would be elected twice. In my opinion, there are tree groups in Armenia that support LTP:

1. Some Hayastantsiner that hate Kharabakhtsiner. This group is simply jealous. And if Serzh and Robert were Aparantsi (or some other “tsi”), they would hate Aparantsiner. Unfortunately there are many low lives like this in Armenian.

2. Corrupt loosers that were in the clans of the LTP, Vano SIradeghyan and some others in power during LTP era. This people kept Armenia in poverty while they were making a fortune at expense of poor people. This is a large and very dangerous group. There are many of them (former nakharars, patgamavors, varchutyan peter …) and they are supported by their relatives, friends, bodyguard and other associates who depended on them.

3. Simply idiots that have short memory. They forgot how they were getting two hours of electricity a day, or waiting in the line for 5-6 hours to get the small bread, or were looking where to find something to burn to get worm for few hours a day. They forgot how their greedy government was keeping them cold, sick and hungry, so they would be as weak as possible to worry about how stay a live and not bother government while it was getting reach. I can’t believe that these idiots forgot the Levon’s New Years speech in mid 90s. He said: jhogovurd es gitem vor ais tari shat vat er, baits myus tari aveli vat petke lini. Ete sovats lineq ev dram chunenak vor hats arneq, dimek dzer harevannerin kam mek urishin vor partk aneq. Is this something that you can here from your president and go back to support him???? I know corruption exists now in Armenia, and it will not going to be close to Western standards very soon, bayts amen inchin chap ev sahman uni. Levon@ iren shunery het voch chap uner voch el sahman. And please, if you are representative of this group in this forum, don’t say that this all happened because of war. War was a factor, however people were kept in miserable condition intentionally to not raise the voice. And finally they forgot the most important factor: the treachery.

I personally liked Vahan to be the president. I am not Dashnak or member of any party. I liked him because of his ideas, patriotism and intellect. I followed all the candidates very closely during the campaign, and in my opinion, we would be better off with him. Serzh was my second favorite because I know that he will continue Robert’s policies, and it is obvious that Bob was on the right path and republic is save and blooming without being sold to the Turks.

[freakyfreaky]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

aray, all very good points and observations. i don't know if i'd necessarily call them losers preferring the dissent instead.

as for point #3, i don't think any president could have changed the conditions on the street at the time as this was the sunrise of the Republic and the NKR conflict was ongoing simultaneously - and LTP's presidency was the first in the modern era in Armenia.

Then, the people were still getting used to being out of the grips of communism. its not like LTP got a thriving economy, stable infrastructure and completely functioning utility system when the Republic was born again.

Under all of these pressures, LTP's tenure included a successful uprising against a hostile neighbor that got more out of the diaspora than just "donations" like Melkonian, Sefilyan and other courageous freedom fighters.

As for Karabagh, I can understand how some Armenians could be opposed to Karabaghis being in power. Funny how the constitution requires you to be a citizen of the country and Karabaghis have dual citizenship while the ruling party in Armenia claims that NKR is an independent state. I'm still scratching my head over that one.

And, if you don't think there are people in the circle of power exploiting Kocharyan's tenure, then you are as naive as some of the people you are criticizing.

[Armenian]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

Ապրես եղբայր:

To be honest I am not so surprised by the number of the idiots that we have on the streets of Yerevan supporting Levon. Each nation has its share of idiots. Look at USA, who would think that moron like Bush would be elected twice. In my opinion, there are tree groups in Armenia that support LTP:

1. Some Hayastantsiner that hate Kharabakhtsiner. This group is simply jealous. And if Serzh and Robert were Aparantsi (or some other “tsi”), they would hate Aparantsiner. Unfortunately there are many low lives like this in Armenian.

2. Corrupt loosers that were in the clans of the LTP, Vano SIradeghyan and some others in power during LTP era. This people kept Armenia in poverty while they were making a fortune at expense of poor people. This is a large and very dangerous group. There are many of them (former nakharars, patgamavors, varchutyan peter …) and they are supported by their relatives, friends, bodyguard and other associates who depended on them.

3. Simply idiots that have short memory. They forgot how they were getting two hours of electricity a day, or waiting in the line for 5-6 hours to get the small bread, or were looking where to find something to burn to get worm for few hours a day. They forgot how their greedy government was keeping them cold, sick and hungry, so they would be as weak as possible to worry about how stay a live and not bother government while it was getting reach. I can’t believe that these idiots forgot the Levon’s New Years speech in mid 90s. He said: jhogovurd es gitem vor ais tari shat vat er, baits myus tari aveli vat petke lini. Ete sovats lineq ev dram chunenak vor hats arneq, dimek dzer harevannerin kam mek urishin vor partk aneq. Is this something that you can here from your president and go back to support him???? I know corruption exists now in Armenia, and it will not going to be close to Western standards very soon, bayts amen inchin chap ev sahman uni. Levon@ iren shunery het voch chap uner voch el sahman. And please, if you are representative of this group in this forum, don’t say that this all happened because of war. War was a factor, however people were kept in miserable condition intentionally to not raise the voice. And finally they forgot the most important factor: the treachery.

I personally liked Vahan to be the president. I am not Dashnak or member of any party. I liked him because of his ideas, patriotism and intellect. I followed all the candidates very closely during the campaign, and in my opinion, we would be better off with him. Serzh was my second favorite because I know that he will continue Robert’s policies, and it is obvious that Bob was on the right path and republic is save and blooming without being sold to the Turks.

[Armenian]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

Ապուշ, ես ել "Հայաստանի Հանրապետության անձնագիր" ունեմ: Համենայն դեպքում դու «ծնունդով» անասուն ես: Հետևաբար, կարող ենք քեզ կոչել «անասունահայ»

Yes unem Hayastani Hanrapetutyan anznagir. Amen depqoom, yes Hayastani dznoond-em. Isk dook, dznoondov Arab ek, yev choonek voch mi iravunk xoselu Hayastani anoonits.

[freakyfreaky]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

Freaky jan,

That is not "entirely" true. The fact of the matter is tens of thousands of "Yerevantsis" came to Karabakh to defend it against the Azeri baboons. And if another war breaks out, you can bet your sweet a-s-s that tens of thousands of more yerevans will run to the front lines. Therefore, such talk is just silly. Please, do not mistake the "Karabakh clan" with the brave, patriotic, and just people of Karabakh.

I don't know who this "fedayeen" character is, but rest assured his kind are a few.

Artsakh, umm, I don't think what I said discounts that Yerevantsis would fight to defend Karabakh again. However, I don't think some of those would have fought if they knew ahead of time that NKR would declare its independence.

And, you can understand how some of those same people - a minority nonetheless - would be offended by a leader from outside the borders of Armenia especially as NKR is being represented as an independent nation to the whole world. Just like there are those in Karabagh that have lived there their whole lives and know nothing else, the same can be said of some in Armenia.

[freakyfreaky]

Re: Presidential elections 2008 in Armenia

Protesters rallying around the clock, one resident sick and tired of it as it happens after every election and disrupts ordinary life.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hjloddK2l45_KpFPz6JLhba9rHDgD8UV4KD00

Russian media source reporting some protesters brave the frigid night outside the Opera House; Defense minister and military leaders look to distance themselves from LTP's representations.

http://www.itar-tass.com/eng/level2.html?NewsID=12402069&PageNum=0

Turkish media reporting of its president sending Sargsyan congrats and enouraging normalization of relations.

http://english.sabah.com.tr/6BC119071A30404F8AEA17BCBCE05D2D.html