Elections in Armenia

[Lernakan]

Re: Elections in Armenia

Yes the man from Mars .... or the black man among the whites .... or maybe the Turk among the Armenians ....

Those are your words not mine

Your genius did not manage to understand that we are dealing with an enemy.

Please, if you had read some of my posts you wouldn't say this. I say we shouldn't want Armenia to stay isolated and at the same time complain about the "bad" economic situation. Georgia is abusing the fact that they are our only transportation route to Europe so they double (at least) the transportation costs for Armenian products, in fact supporting the turkish/azerbaijani blockade against Armenia.
How is staying isolated going to help Armenia? You are really something....

Trying to draw a parallel by comparing the row (protectionism ) between the US and China is naive to say the least.

You really don't understand do you. I don't understand your way of thinking and never have.
I didn't draw parallels between their situation and ours you genius. You were saying that Armenia as a WTO member cannot protect its local industries and I was showing you that they can. There are many ways in which you can support your local industries, by subsidising them, by setting minimum prices for specific products, by setting high import duties for specific products etc. Many WTO members are doing this you genius, again if you were following some financial news you would know this.

The aim of the row between the US and China is to create a more favourable environment to take advantage of each others trade.

Thanks for the explanation, you truly are a genius. I couldn't think of that myself, thanks for clearing that up for me sir.

Neither is trying to destroy the other nor can they if they tried.

We shouldn't be such cowards and wish for Armenia to stay isolated forever. There are many ways in which we can protect our local industries/farmers and at the same time have open borders which will be great for our exports. We will have easier access to european markets and georgia would lose its leverage over Armenia. Geopolitically and economically speaking it would be beneficial for Armenia. National interests sir are more important than your fear of the turks.

As time has showed Turkey never gave up trying to get its own way or Azerbaijan's way.
The majority of the Nation saw it. The President did not. His mistake was so great that his own people were shouting at him �traitor�.
Can you imagine what a bad miscalculation that was.

Yes, I'm sure our diplomats and respectable President mr. Serzh Sargsyan took every option into account. The protocols failed but had they followed through than it would be only good for Armenia. I'm sure they also took into account that turkey could derail the process (as they did) but how would this be bad for us? It only showed the world where we stand and where turkey stands. They received a lot of criticism from around the world for derailling the process and there was also a row between them and azerbaijan which is only good for us. Diplomatically speaking it was brilliant and a clear victory for us.

His own people have proved throughout history that they don't understand a damn thing of politics, their emotions don't let them think clearly. It was really shameful how our President Serzh Sargsyan got received in Paris. Very very shameful and disrespectful, I mean the very first thing that our President did was to lay flowers at the Genocide momument and still our people didn't get the message. We can't let our emotions get in the way of our national interests, especially at this early and vulnerable stage of development for our Republic.

It will not allow any Armenian goods to be sold in Turkey.

You're wrong again, Armenian products can be sold on the turkish market. The amount of exports from Armenia to turkey is very very small but it still happens. If I'm not mistaken we export small amounts of tobacco leaves and rubber to turkey. I think it doesn't even amount to 2 million dollars a year (I don't remember the real numbers) but it still happens. However you can find turkish goods everywhere in Armenia from toothpicks (just look at the label of the toothpicks used in many of the caf�'s near the opera) to washing machines, textiles etc. etc.

I found an article about this but it seems the exports amounted to 1 million dollars only (2010 figures):

http://www.todayszaman.com/news-266656-trade-between-turkey-armenia-goes-on-amid-legal-woes.html

Why does Armenia not laugh it off and �simply� put in place some laws to counter the situation.
This has been going on for nearly twenty years. What is holding it back?

Armenia should pass laws to protect its local producers when necessary. And as I showed, Armenian goods are not forbidden to be sold in turkey.

Just so you get it I will repeat my words again for the third time. I hope your way of thinking doesn't get in the way to understand what I'm saying. All I'm saying is there are many ways for Armenia to protect its local industries/farmers withouth getting into trouble with the WTO and at the same time have open borders with turkey.

P.S. I remember when large amounts of tomatoes were being imported from Turkey at cheaper prices concerned people started complaining.
The President�s comments was to criticize the complainants for being against the consumers getting cheaper products!!

Please give me evidence of the criticism from the President. I remember the incident with the tomatoes too since it was only in 2011 but then again, Armenia can prevent this by passing different laws. If they haven't already they should now and especially if the border opens. This was a mistake on their part and they should protect local farmers.

Here is an article about that incident and as you can clearly read (the bold parts) there are ways in which a country can protect its local producers without getting into trouble with the WTO:

Armenian villagers unhappy with Turkish tomatoes

ISTANBUL - H�rriyet Daily News | 5/9/2011 12:00:00 AM | VERCİHAN ZİFLİOĞLU

A recent reaction by Armenian tomato producers to exports from Turkey was right, still the complaints did not require a halt in imports and exports between the two countries, an Armenian minister said.

A recent reaction by Armenian tomato producers to exports from Turkey was right, still the complaints did not require a halt in imports and exports between the two countries, said Armenian Deputy Minister of Agriculture and Rural Affairs Samvel Kalstyan.

As their products remained unsold, tomato producers in Armania held a protest last Friday in the Republic Square in Yerevan, the capital city, calling for a ban on tomatoes imported from Turkey.

Even though border gates between Armenia and Turkey are closed, businesspeople from both countries continue trading via Georgia.

Due to continental climate in the country, producers in Armenia are not able to plant sufficient amount of tomatoes. Tomatoes are raised only in greenhouses there.

Speaking to the H�rriyet Daily News, Armenian Deputy Minister of Agriculture and Rural Affairs Samvel Kalstyan said he found the reaction of Armenian people right. �Still, the situation does not require a halt in imports and exports between the two countries.�

Kalstyan said the Georgian government imposed a quota for potatoes and grapes imported from Armenia last year. �But this situation does not require a halt in imports and exports. Imports and exports can be continued with some measures and regulations, without making producers aggrieved,� Kalstyan told the Daily News.

Gagik Makaryan, chairman of the Republican Union of Employers of Armenia, who has close relations with businesspeople from Turkey since 2008, told the Daily News that reactions of Armenian producers are right. �First of all, the priority should be in Armenian producers. If not the production capacity in the country may be damaged.�

�Just like other countries, Turkey also imposes taxes and quota to its imports to not to damage its domestic market. This is normal. Otherwise, producers may be aggrieved and this causes inequality,� Makaryan said.

Farmers can obtain 70 to 80 kilograms tomatoes from one square meter land in Europe and Turkey, said Professor Antreas Melikyan from the Agrarian University in Yerevan. �But in Armenia, the production per one square meter is 20 kilograms,� Melikyan told the Daily News. �Due to difficulties and problems caused by the climate, villagers should be supported by the government.�

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/def...oes-2011-05-09

Londontsi this was my last reply to you, thanks for reminding me why I hadn't visited this forum for a long time. I will refrain from replying to your mostly nonsense statements. All the best to you mate!

[londontsi]

Re: Elections in Armenia

Ah you again, ......

Yes the man from Mars .... or the black man among the whites .... or maybe the Turk among the Armenians ....

..... well what you describe there is called flooding you genius. Since they have mass production they can sell their products far cheaper than our industries/farmers which would be bad for us. And before you start about the literal definition of flooding the market let me just say that some worried that our industries etc could not compete with theirs but I'm saying there are many ways in which we could prevent this and still have open borders. Is that clear enough for you? We shouldn't want Armenia to stay isolated forever just because of some fears should we? Thats a bit cowardly to say the least and very shortsighted.

If you think protectionism doesnt exist among WTO nations you are sadly mistaken. While in school we've learned a lot about ways in which countries can protect their local industries and there are plenty of ways.

Here is a small European example for you:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Agricultural_Policy#mw-mf-search

And if you would follow some financial news you would've heard about the row between China and the US about protectionism:

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/business-18104024

Just search the web you'd be surprised.

Your genius did not manage to understand that we are dealing with an enemy.

Trying to draw a parallel by comparing the row (protectionism ) between the US and China is naive to say the least.

The aim of the row between the US and China is to create a more favourable environment to take advantage of each others trade.
Neither is trying to destroy the other nor can they if they tried.

As time has showed Turkey never gave up trying to get its own way or Azerbaijan's way.
The majority of the Nation saw it. The President did not. His mistake was so great that his own people were shouting at him “traitor”.
Can you imagine what a bad miscalculation that was.

Turkey effectively has ( commercially speaking) a protectionist policy towards Armenia.
It will not allow any Armenian goods to be sold in Turkey. So Armenia trades with Turkey in a “protectionist” environment.

Why does Armenia not laugh it off and “simply” put in place some laws to counter the situation.
This has been going on for nearly twenty years. What is holding it back?

P.S. I remember when large amounts of tomatoes were being imported from Turkey at cheaper prices concerned people started complaining.
The President’s comments was to criticize the complainants for being against the consumers getting cheaper products!!

[Lernakan]

Re: Elections in Armenia

This is not a laughable matter unless you do not understand business and competition.

You do not need to flood the Armenian market with Turkish goods.
All you (they) have to do is to target with enough volume at targeted industries or agriculture to make them not achieve economic volumes (sales) to be profitable.
Many of our farmers have a pretty miserable existence, now imagine what would happen if they loose 25% of that sales volume.

As for being protected by law this would not work since Armenia is signatory to various international treaties which forbid protectionism.

Ah you again, well what you describe there is called flooding you genius. Since they have mass production they can sell their products far cheaper than our industries/farmers which would be bad for us. And before you start about the literal definition of flooding the market let me just say that some worried that our industries etc could not compete with theirs but I'm saying there are many ways in which we could prevent this and still have open borders. Is that clear enough for you? We shouldn't want Armenia to stay isolated forever just because of some fears should we? Thats a bit cowardly to say the least and very shortsighted.

If you think protectionism doesnt exist among WTO nations you are sadly mistaken. While in school we've learned a lot about ways in which countries can protect their local industries and there are plenty of ways.

Here is a small European example for you:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Agricultural_Policy#mw-mf-search

And if you would follow some financial news you would've heard about the row between China and the US about protectionism:

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/business-18104024

Just search the web you'd be surprised.

[londontsi]

Re: Elections in Armenia

.........



The two main arguments I heard about the protocols by our people were:
1. The commission of historians to study the Armenian genocide;
2. Armenia would be flooded by turks/turkish products.

First of all no one from the ruling authorities in Armenia would ever in their right mind question the Armenian genocide. If there was to be such a commission it should be welcomed since we know what the facts are and there could only be one outcome of their research - that the atrocities that took place did amount to a Genocide. Why should we be afraid to discuss this issue with some turkish historians if we know the facts to be on our side?

I totally disagree.

As a negotiating tactic you never start to renegotiate a “universally” accepted fact.
The minute you start that you have lost the battle.

As an extreme example the minute you start ( or allow ) a debate that “you are not a fool” you are in deep trouble.
You would be tied in knots, you would not know what hit you.
Remember you are negotiating with your enemies who in turn have their own vested interest.

As for the second argument, this is only laughable since there are numerous ways you can protect your local market against flooding by foreign countries. European countries subsidize their farmers and have many laws protecting their local industries against flooding from China for example. I mean why should we even be afraid of this if you can simply counter it with laws. Also I just don't see it happening that turks en masse would choose Armenia as their holiday destination.

This is not a laughable matter unless you do not understand business and competition.

You do not need to flood the Armenian market with Turkish goods.
All you (they) have to do is to target with enough volume at targeted industries or agriculture to make them not achieve economic volumes (sales) to be profitable.
Many of our farmers have a pretty miserable existence, now imagine what would happen if they loose 25% of that sales volume.

As for being protected by law this would not work since Armenia is signatory to various international treaties which forbid protectionism.

[Lernakan]

Re: Elections in Armenia

“Ever since signing the ceasefire with Azerbaijan in 1994, our economy was growing more intensively than the five years of Serzh Sargsyan’s governance. They [that is, the present-day authorities] condition this on the global economic crisis. In this case, two questions arise: How can one explain the fact that the economy reduced by 2 percent in the other countries, [but by] 15 percent in Armenia? In addition, the country was allocated $11 billion, [that is,] the same amount as the entire production of our country,” Bagratyan noted.

These idiots from the ANC can so easily be countered with substantive arguments that it's not even funny. I mean which other countries? What does he mean with the economy has reduced? Irenq esh en mer zhoxovurdin el drel en eshi tex!

[Lernakan]

Re: Elections in Armenia

I must confess I disliked Sargsyan because of the treaty with the toorks that the West wanted! However it seems I was off base, as the toorks don't want to comply, and that is great! It makes them look like idiots and I did not expect this outcome.
So Armenians what do you remember?

Vahram jan, you shouldn't let your emotions interfere in politics. When I first heard the news on the protocols, I thought it was a brilliant move. I hoped (though doubted) that it would drive a wedge between Turkey and Azerbaijan. As Azerbaijan's blockade of Armenia would mean nothing if the border with Turkey were to be opened and as the process was initiated/supported by the West it could drive Azerbaijan closer (thus more dependent) on Russia. This could possibly be beneficial for us as well. Also economically it would be very beneficial if the border with Turkey were to be opened since Georgia would lose its "monopoly" as the only transport route for Armenia.
The two main arguments I heard about the protocols by our people were:
1. The commission of historians to study the Armenian genocide;
2. Armenia would be flooded by turks/turkish products.

First of all no one from the ruling authorities in Armenia would ever in their right mind question the Armenian genocide. If there was to be such a commission it should be welcomed since we know what the facts are and there could only be one outcome of their research - that the atrocities that took place did amount to a Genocide. Why should we be afraid to discuss this issue with some turkish historians if we know the facts to be on our side?
As for the second argument, this is only laughable since there are numerous ways you can protect your local market against flooding by foreign countries. European countries subsidize their farmers and have many laws protecting their local industries against flooding from China for example. I mean why should we even be afraid of this if you can simply counter it with laws. Also I just don't see it happening that turks en masse would choose Armenia as their holiday destination.

[Vahram]

Re: Elections in Armenia

2012 can be considered a successful year for Armenia’s economy. We’ll manage to close the year with indices much higher than those envisaged by state budget 2012,” Minister of Economy Tigran Davtyan told a press conference today, summing up the results of the passing year

for the first nine months of 2011 totaled USD 586 million, a 24.2 percent increase over the same period the previous year. GDP grew by 2.1 percent in 2010, and 5 percent from January to September 2011

With the latest deals and a new railroad on the way, I can't wait for the next 5 years to arrive. Some of the boarder openings with Georgia and Russia will improve the situation faster.

A little history is in order as some seem to forget the details like the 2008 war with Georgia was a disaster for the Armenian economy in addition the increase in sanctions on Iran have further complicated matters. Sadly a balanced view is hardly possible with Neo Liberal mentality, but the truth is not that easy to run away from.

In connection with the assassination attempt with the two suspects in custody I hope we get to the bottom of this. I don't like the smell of this, there is a lot here and I can't wait for the facts to come out. Perhaps we shall find the dirty Neo Liberal hand at play here. With the level of hate from the Neo Liberals towards the Armenian authorities and Armenia in general this will not surprise me one bit.

[KarotheGreat]

Re: Elections in Armenia

Are Armenia’s authorities capable of establishing law and order in country? – presidential hopeful

Are Armenia’s authorities capable of establishing law and order in country? – presidential hopefulFebruary 09, 2013 | 17:09

The situation in Armenia is complicated. The first term of the ruling Republican Party presidential candidate, incumbent President Serzh Sargsyan has failed. During his five year in office, and in line with official data, the country’s economic growth constituted a mere 4 percent. Presidential contender, opposition Freedom Party Chairman, former PM Hrant Bagratyan stated this Saturday, during his talk with the voters in Ashtarak city of Aragatsotn Region.

“Ever since signing the ceasefire with Azerbaijan in 1994, our economy was growing more intensively than the five years of Serzh Sargsyan’s governance. They [that is, the present-day authorities] condition this on the global economic crisis. In this case, two questions arise: How can one explain the fact that the economy reduced by 2 percent in the other countries, [but by] 15 percent in Armenia? In addition, the country was allocated $11 billion, [that is,] the same amount as the entire production of our country,” Bagratyan noted.

Also, referring to the recent assassination attempt that was staged against fellow presidential candidate, opposition National Self-Determination Union Chairman Paruyr Hayrikyan—who is recovering at hospital from a gunshot wound—and the attack on his campaign headquarters, Hrant Bagratyan questioned the Armenian authorities’ capability to establish law and order in country.

[Vahram]

Re: Elections in Armenia

I must confess I disliked Sargsyan because of the treaty with the toorks that the West wanted! However it seems I was off base, as the toorks don't want to comply, and that is great! It makes them look like idiots and I did not expect this outcome. When we finally pull out we will be justified ( not that we are not already justified ), and if the toorks do anything else it will not be good for them. In hindsight he played the game masterfully and I have to give him credit. He as a lot of respect and he has made Armenia a better place.

We have to remember as Armenians to put things into perspective we keep failing at this. We have a small land left, that has in the past 30 years seen nothing but disaster. Instead of looking proudly that in these troubled times we have come forward, improved and are doing 1000% better we only see the negative. We are still in a blockade after going through a Soviet disaster of an economy that brought down the USSR, we forget this. We forget that we lost a huge amount of people in a devastating earthquake that even hard line Westerners were shocked at the loses! We forget the war and the killing and burning of our people all over baboonistan. We also keep forgetting that we are under blockade. Our baboon friends with all the oil wealth are starving!

The Georgians keep highjacking goods and the routes are not safe or blocked. The only other trading partner Iran is, has been and will continue to be under sanctions and that restricts our access as well. We can't even seem to land a civilian plane at a damned airport without having to worry about it being shot at.

So Armenians what do you remember?

[Lernakan]

Re: Elections in Armenia

a healthy body breeds a healthy mind?

Martial artists support Serzh Sargsyan

YEREVAN, JANAURY 5, ARMENPRESS. Five sport public organizations united to voice about their concern over the assassination attempt against presidential candidate Paruyr Hayrikyan. As reports "Armenpress" during the press conference held on February 5 the Chairman of the Traditional Wushu Federation of Armenia Tigran Chobanyan characterized the assassination attempt against Paruyr Hayrikyan is an assault against the state and independence.

The Chairman of the Traditional Wushu Federation of Armenia Tigran Chobanyan, Co-Chairman for Commercial Activity of the Traditional Wushu Federation of Armenia Rustam Alaverdyan, Responsible Secretary of the Kick-Boxing Federation of Armenia Arman Buduryan, Chairman of “Arsenal” Martial Arts Association Vardan Abgaryan, Chairman of Aikido-Aikikai Federation of Armenia Armen Avetisyan, and Chairman of Traditional Karate-do federation of Armenia called upon the citizens to participate in the upcoming presidential elections and make their choice with clear conscience.

The abovementioned five sport public organizations support the candidacy of the current President of the Republic of Armenia Serzh Sargsyan.

http://armenpress.am/eng/news/707250/martial-artists-support-serzh-sargsyan.html