Dashnaktsutyun - Armenian Revolutionary Federation

[Muhaha]

Re: Dashnaktsutyun - Armenian Revolutionary Federation

I can't understand anything in that article...are they saying they'll protest and cause upheaval if the current party proposes giving up some territories of Artsakh? If so, that actually sounds like the right thing to do.....

[levon]

Re: Dashnaktsutyun - Armenian Revolutionary Federation

Here is another idiotic plan. This one pretty much proves that the dashnaks are agents of the west in Armenia.

"ARF PREPARES THE POWER'S PATH
NAIRA HAYRUMYAN

Lragir.am
08/06/10

TO WITHDRAW

ARF Dashnaktsutyun declared its priority the change of power in
Armenia. In addition, though it was stated that the party will be
getting ready for regular elections, it was specially underlined that
a social revolt may happen in the country. It is also noteworthy
that Dashnaktsutyun stated that Armenia is forced unfavorable for
us peace in the NKR issue, and if the power agrees with such peace,
it will have to answer.

Combining these two statements, we can conclude that yesterday ARF
presented one of the possible scenarios of the development of events
in Armenia and in the region. The scenario is the following: if the
pressure by Russia or by anyone else increases reaching dangerous
limits, in the country, a social revolt by the ARF will happen, a
shift of power will take place and the Dashnaks, which are perceived
in the world as a party of radical nationalistic character, will take
the wheel of the country in their hands. This will enable to open
a bloodless path for the withdrawal of the current power, stopping
unfavorable for us settlement process and creating a new status quo in
the region. The new status quo will not be based on the expectations
of concessions by Armenia, but on the need to recognize the borders
established after the war.

When this scenario is accomplished can be only guessed, since,
"silence diplomacy" in the Karabakh issue is "spinning now with might
and main". In August, a visit of the Russian president to Armenia
is outlined, who, according to Zhamanak daily, will bring the plan
of the settlement including the surrender of three regions-Aghdam,
Fizuli and Kelbadjar. Since a "voluntary" agreement with this scenario
by Armenia is impossible, it is supposed that Baku may initiate a
small war. In this connection, the U.S. president Barack Obama wrote a
special letter to Ilham Aliyev and urged him to refrain from war. The
only peaceful scenario is left-to persuade Serge Sargsyan. And here
appears on the stage ARF Dashnaktsutyun with its social revolt."

This article states that the dashnaks are ready to cause social upheaval and take power. This sounds like a dillusional drunk yapping away. In the previous article they said they were gona take power through elections which anyone with half a brain knows wont happen and now they claim they will take power through social upheaval which again they cannot do. So like how many plans do these guys have and which leader is in charge? They are saying two different things from the same party, yeh you know that party that gets every call wrong. These idiots are again going against russia and siding with the usa. It is obvious they dont learn from their mistakes and again they are fully prepared for the people of Armenia to suffer the consequences of their time honored lunacy. The last time Armenia chose the usa instead of russia we almost lost our country with the likes of LTP taking us to the gates of hell. The Armenians of Armenia do not want to go there again and they wont. I dont think a party can be this stupid thus i am starting to believe the dashnaks do not work for the best interest of Armenia and would rather pursue party goals vs national ones. And befor the dashnaks here go gaga over what i wrote just read what these articles say again.

Damn, the idiot who wrote this article needs to go back to school and learn some basic writing skills. Her writing style is completely ill-composed, unprofessional and without proper continuum between sentences and ideas.

Oh, wait, that's just the last part of the post, which appears to be written by the person whom I just quoted.

The article is crap, it's just propaganda directed towards hurting the dashnaks. If there were any possibility of giving back parts of Karabakh, not just the Dashnaks, but all the others as well will organize an upheaval. This article simply aims to paint Dashnaks in a negative light, which, ironically, is what Turks aim to do with their propaganda to divide the diaspora from the homeland.

[Haykakan]

Re: Dashnaktsutyun - Armenian Revolutionary Federation

How is it propoganda when they are using quotes which were said by the leaders of the dashnak party? As for the lands surrounding Artsagh, those lands were gotten so we can use them as bargaining chips for future negotiations. Those lands were never part of Armenia to begin with and do not have any Armenian indegenous populations. Sure some Armenians did populate some of those lands after the war but those never were Armenian lands (Unless you go back to the days of tigran the great when even Syria was ours). The plan was all along to use these lands as bargaining chips in a final peace settlement where some of the territories are returned to the Azeris for the freedom of kharabagh and its physical connection to Armenia. The dashnaks are not the only ones who dont want to return lands but the alternative is another war which neither hayastan nor kharabagh nor the azeris nor the international community want. I have no issues with taking lands from the turcks because they have taken plenty from us which was never rightfuly theirs but if it brings peace and security to the people living in Kharabagh then giving up a couple of unpopulated regions is just fine. I am sure that a deal has been struck between Armenia, Kharabagh, Russia and the Azeris by now, the details of which we do not yet know and that the power behind it is Russia. For the Armenian side the important things are to preserve and provide safety for the population of kharabagh which will rule itself or from Hayastan, to provide enoughf land for the people of kharabagh to live and grow, and to maintain a secure connection to Armenia proper. I am sure we will get this in return for the land consessions we make otherwise no consessions will be made.

[levon]

Re: Dashnaktsutyun - Armenian Revolutionary Federation

How is it propoganda when they are using quotes which were said by the leaders of the dashnak party?

Taking quotes out of context, discussing them in a different context and drawing conclusions based on that IS propaganda.

As for the lands surrounding Artsagh, those lands were gotten so we can use them as bargaining chips for future negotiations.

I'm sorry to say, but you're an idiot. Those lands were gotten because our warriors were able to get them. It takes blood to take lands, and it WILL take blood to give lands back.

Those lands were never part of Armenia to begin with and do not have any Armenian indegenous populations. Sure some Armenians did populate some of those lands after the war but those never were Armenian lands

This comment makes it clear that you are completely confused and have absolutely no respect for all those who gave their lives fighting in Karabagh. If you had a friend, or relative die during the war your entire outlook would be different. I suggest you go and try to understand why your ideas are based on nothing other than fear and weakness, and if Armenia were to adapt your way of thought it would be taken over by the Turks in no time.

The plan was all along to use these lands as bargaining chips in a final peace settlement where some of the territories are returned to the Azeris for the freedom of kharabagh and its physical connection to Armenia.

NO, the lands were taken because our soldiers saw the opportune moment when the Azeris were completely demoralized, and took advantage of it by going on a swift offensive. Blood was shed, nonetheless, and only an IDIOT would suggest its ok to give lands back without blood.

if it brings peace and security to the people living in Kharabagh then giving up a couple of unpopulated regions is just fine.

NO, a winner giving concessions as a response to verbal threats is a major sign of weakness, and after Azeris take back those regions, which will effectively weaken the Karabagh defense lines, they will immediately attack and reclaim more land. Only a sheep would willingly walk into the butchers hands knowing full well death is certain, but still hope for the best nonetheless. Armenia cannot afford be a sheep.

I am sure that a deal has been struck between Armenia, Kharabagh, Russia and the Azeris by now, the details of which we do not yet know and that the power behind it is Russia.

There is no chance of any deals that include concessions, be sure of that. Whatever the deals may be, in the end they will not be carried out. Every single party to the conflict and the negotiations knows full well that the only way Azeris will get land back is through blood.

For the Armenian side the important things are to preserve and provide safety for the population of kharabagh which will rule itself or from Hayastan, to provide enoughf land for the people of kharabagh to live and grow, and to maintain a secure connection to Armenia proper.

There can be no safety for the population of Kharabagh if Armenia gives in to the Azeris and gives back land based on merely speculation of war. That would be a major sign of weakness and will only enhance the spirit of the Azeris. It would be a major victory for them, and a major loss for us. That's not a very comfortable position for the Karabagh people to be in.

I am sure we will get this in return for the land consessions we make otherwise no consessions will be made.

If anything, land concessions will get us the opposite of security. Your mentality is that of a scared, wimpy teenage kid who's afraid of getting in a fight so he easily succumbs to verbal threats. The rest of us, who are true patriots are ready to die just to show the Azeri F&cks that nobody dares to F&ck with us without looking at certain death.

[Davo88]

Re: Dashnaktsutyun - Armenian Revolutionary Federation

The Shahumian region of Karabakh still remains under Azeri control, and is an ancient Armenian land. Only if Azerbaijan gives back that region, that it would be acceptable to give it some land in return.

[Haykakan]

Re: Dashnaktsutyun - Armenian Revolutionary Federation

Taking quotes out of context, discussing them in a different context and drawing conclusions based on that IS propaganda.



I'm sorry to say, but you're an idiot. Those lands were gotten because our warriors were able to get them. It takes blood to take lands, and it WILL take blood to give lands back.



This comment makes it clear that you are completely confused and have absolutely no respect for all those who gave their lives fighting in Karabagh. If you had a friend, or relative die during the war your entire outlook would be different. I suggest you go and try to understand why your ideas are based on nothing other than fear and weakness, and if Armenia were to adapt your way of thought it would be taken over by the Turks in no time.



NO, the lands were taken because our soldiers saw the opportune moment when the Azeris were completely demoralized, and took advantage of it by going on a swift offensive. Blood was shed, nonetheless, and only an IDIOT would suggest its ok to give lands back without blood.




NO, a winner giving concessions as a response to verbal threats is a major sign of weakness, and after Azeris take back those regions, which will effectively weaken the Karabagh defense lines, they will immediately attack and reclaim more land. Only a sheep would willingly walk into the butchers hands knowing full well death is certain, but still hope for the best nonetheless. Armenia cannot afford be a sheep.



There is no chance of any deals that include concessions, be sure of that. Whatever the deals may be, in the end they will not be carried out. Every single party to the conflict and the negotiations knows full well that the only way Azeris will get land back is through blood.



There can be no safety for the population of Kharabagh if Armenia gives in to the Azeris and gives back land based on merely speculation of war. That would be a major sign of weakness and will only enhance the spirit of the Azeris. It would be a major victory for them, and a major loss for us. That's not a very comfortable position for the Karabagh people to be in.



If anything, land concessions will get us the opposite of security. Your mentality is that of a scared, wimpy teenage kid who's afraid of getting in a fight so he easily succumbs to verbal threats. The rest of us, who are true patriots are ready to die just to show the Azeri F&cks that nobody dares to F&ck with us without looking at certain death.

Levon i really wish you would either think befor you post stuff or just plain stfu. Your errors miiror those of many others here and have been and will be proven wrong all over again just like the protocals and the sarkisian situation. What you dont see and dont understand is that this is not just up to Armenia and azeris. There are greater powers involved here and non bigger then Russia. Russia will pretty much dictate this situation just as it has for a long time done so. There would have been a war already if it was not for Russian invasion of Georgia. The Russians warned the Azeris of restarting hostilities at the time and scared them off from starting another war. It is good and well to fight for and defend your country but those regions are not our country and are not even populated by our people nor anyone else for that matter. People fight for what is right, to save their own lives or the ones of their loved ones-countrymen... this is the reason we won in kharabagh. Those regions surrounding kharabagh are bargaining chips intended to be used as such and i have no problem with the Armenian government doing just that.

[Haykakan]

Re: Dashnaktsutyun - Armenian Revolutionary Federation

The Shahumian region of Karabakh still remains under Azeri control, and is an ancient Armenian land. Only if Azerbaijan gives back that region, that it would be acceptable to give it some land in return.

Such a land exchange would probably be a great idea if the two sides bargain rationaly.

[londontsi]

Re: Dashnaktsutyun - Armenian Revolutionary Federation

http://www.armtown.com/news/en/rfe/20100608/2065305/

PUTIN RULES OUT RUSSIAN PRESSURE ON ARMENIA, AZERBAIJAN

Russia will not put pressure on Armenia or Azerbaijan to hasten the resolution of the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict and expects other mediating powers to be just as cautious, Prime Minister Vladimir Putin said in Turkey on Tuesday.

“Only the two states, the two peoples can find mutually acceptable solutions and compromises in a practical dialogue with one another. Solving this kind of problems always requires a compromise acceptable to both sides,” Putin told a news conference after talks with his Turkish counterpart, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, held on the sidelines of a regional security summit in Istanbul.

“What is acceptable to Azerbaijan or Armenia?” he said. “Only they themselves can tell. All other participants of this [negotiating] process can only act as guarantors of the respect of elaborated agreements.”

“We don’t want anyone to think later on that we pressured one of the parties and achieved a solution to the problem that is unfair to somebody,” he added.

Visiting Turkey last month, Russian President Dmitry Medvedev likewise stressed that the onus is on Baku and Yerevan to work out a peaceful settlement based on mutual compromise.

Turkish officials had expressed hope ahead of Medvedev’s trip that Moscow will become more actively involved in Armenian-Azerbaijani peace talks. This raised fears in Armenia that the Russians may seek more Armenian concessions to Azerbaijan for the sake of their increasingly close relationship with Turkey.

The Turkish government regards a Karabakh settlement as a key precondition for implementing the Turkish-Armenian normalization agreements signed in October. Putin publicly rejected this linkage when he met Erdogan in Moscow earlier this year. President Serzh Sarkisian and other Armenian leaders hailed this stance.

The strained Turkish-Armenian relations featured large during Medvedev’s latest talks with Sarkisian that were held in the southern Russian city of Rostov-on-Don last week. Sarkisian afterwards again blamed Ankara for the effective collapse of the normalization process and ruled out any Turkish mediation in the Karabakh peace process.

It was not clear if the Russian and Turkish premiers discussed the Armenian-Azerbaijani dispute on Tuesday. Erdogan made no mention of the issue at the ensuing news conference. He spoke only of “strengthening relations between Turkey and Russia in the whole region and the Caucasus in particular.”

[londontsi]

Re: Dashnaktsutyun - Armenian Revolutionary Federation

http://www.regnum.ru/english/679147.html

Surrender of territories to Azerbaijan: strategic consequences for Armenia and Nagorno-Karabakh



In the light of the continuing discourse on how to preserve the “favorable window of opportunities” in the Karabakh peace process, people in Armenia keep actively talking about the settlement principles that have reportedly been presented to the Armenian and Azeri presidents for discussion and possible signing. These principles stipulate that Armenian troops be withdrawn from the liberated territories and the territories, except for the Lachin corridor, be given back to Azerbaijan.

The article is about the importance the liberated territory has for ensuring the key element of Armenia’s national security – its military component. When speaking about Armenia, you should keep in mind two states, the Republic of Armenia and the Nagorno-Karabakh Republic (NKR), who are fully integrated in military and economic terms. As you may know, military security is a condition of a state that allows it to exclude any damage to its vital interests that can be caused by threat or practical armed violence.

The given analysis is based on an axiom that is generally accepted among experts: for ensuring national security one should be ready for the worst scenario. And now, let’s more thoroughly consider the significance the liberated territory has for ensuring the military security of Armenia (RA and NKR).

The military conflict of 1991-1994 has improved the quality of the following elements of the military-strategic position of the Armenian states:

1. Frontline configuration

The present configuration of the frontline is optimal for the Armenian side. The southern flank of the Artsakh front is shielded by the Iranian border, the northern flank – by the hard-to-access Mrav mountain range. In the east – from the mountains of Mrav to the river Arax – the Armenian side has a well-fortified multi-echelon defense line.

Should the Armenian side give back the territories of six districts and keep only Lachin, the total frontline of the two Armenian states with Azerbaijan, including Nakhichevan, will get 450 km longer to 1,100 km. The frontline between Artsakh and Azerbaijan will lengthen by 150 km to 360 km. For you to have the full picture of how long a border Armenia will have with its conflicting neighbors, we should remind you that Armenia also has a poorly protected 268 km border with Turkey.

In order to effectively fortify the extended frontline the Armenian side will have to mobilize substantial human and financial resources.

First, the Armenian side will have to increase its army personnel (the Armed Forces of Armenia and the Defense Army of Artsakh (Karabakh)) and, therefore, to prolong the compulsory service term for privates and to enroll contract officers.

Second, after withdrawing troops, the Armenian side will have to undertake big expenses to create new defense lines. To carry out the above measures, the Armenian side will have to augment its military budget, but to do this, it will have to further curtail its scarce social financing and to face the ensuing negative consequences.

2. Depth of defense

The liberated territories have allowed the Armenian side to ensure the minimum defense depth and to solve several important strategic problems:

First, the present depth of defense has allowed the Armenian side to form a multi-echelon defense line. Should the first line be broken, the Armenian side will be able to resist on the following ones and to keep the enemy outside Artsakh until additional troops come from Armenia.

Second, the central densely-populated areas of Artsakh, including its capital, Stepanakert, as well as the settlements of the Goris, Kapan and Meghri districts of Armenia have become inaccessible for shelling by Azeri artillery and multiple rocket launching systems (BM-21 “Grad”).

Third, by liberating the Zangelan, Jebrail and Fizuli districts and moving the frontline over 100 km eastward, the Armenian side has liquidated the threat to the vulnerable, just 40 km wide Meghri district of the Republic of Armenia.

If the six districts are given back to the enemy and the frontline is moved back to the former administrative border of Nagorno-Karabakh Autonomous Region, the Armenian side will lose the necessary depth for effective defense and will face bigger difficulties in defending Artsakh should a new war begin.

The new frontline will run just 5 km away from the district centers of Mardakert, Askeran and Hadrut and 18 km away from Stepanakert. If the Armenian side gives back the Karvachar (formerly Kelbajar) district too, the Martakert district will get vulnerable to possible military attacks from three sides.

Even fortified to the maximum, the new defense line will not be a reliable guarantor of Artsakh’s military security. As we know from military history, any well-fortified defense line (Mannerheim line, Siegfried line, Bar-Lev line) can be broken by the attacker, and only sufficient depth of defense can allow the defender to organize new resistance lines and by wearing the enemy out to stop his attack. For example, during the Yom Kippur War (1973), when the Egyptian troops overran the 157.5 km long and 15 km deep Bar-Lev line in Sinai in just six hours, it was exactly the depth of the line that allowed Israel to stop the Egyptian troops, to prevent them from going deep into its territory, to mobilize new forces and to turn around the situation.

Besides, if the border is moved, most of the settlements of Artsakh and the Sunik region of Armenia, first of all, Stepanakert, Kapan and Goris, will find themselves unprotected in the face of possible massive shelling by the enemy. If a new war starts, a sudden massive bombing of towns, district centers and villages by artillery and “Grads” will cause big casualties among civilians and heavy in destruction in Artsakh and Sunik. This may result in a mass exodus of people from the area.

3. Military communications

Efficient military communications, well-trained and equipped mobile troops, timely supply of arms, hardware, ammunition, fuel and other stuff and quick evacuation are really crucial in modern war. For the Armenian side, regular military communications would be really indispensable, should the enemy get big superiority during the first days of the war.

Let’s see in detail what military communications each side has:

Azerbaijan

The densely-populated areas of Azerbaijan are connected with the Artsakh front by two railroads: Baku-Yevlakh and Baku-Horadiz station and several motor roads: Baku-Shemakha-Yevlakh, Baku-Kurdamir-Yevlakh and Baku-Birmai-Bailakan (Zhdanovsk) as well as belt road Yevlakh-Barda-Agjabedy-Bailakan – quite a convenient road running along the frontline. All running via steppe, these roads will allow the enemy to quickly send mobilized troops to the Artsakh front and to get multiple superiority in personnel and hardware before the approach of the Armenian troops.

Artsakh

With the present frontline configuration, there are four motor roads connecting Armenia with Artsakh and the frontline: Vardenis-Mardakert, Goris-Stepanakert-Askeran-Agdam, Kapan-Zangelan-Jebrail and Meghri-Mijavan-Horadiz. If the war resumes, these roads will allow the Armenian sides to bring up quite big troops from Armenia to the Artsakh front in just a few days.

So-called belt roads – communications running along the frontline – are crucial for the frontline resistive capacity. They allow to quickly redeploy troops to wherever there is a danger of breach. At present the Artsakh Defense Army has two belt roads: Mardakert-Agdam-Fizuli-Jebrail and the North-South highway project to connect Mardakert-Stepanakert-Red Bazar-Hadrut.

If the six liberated districts are surrendered, the Armenian armed forces will control only one belt road – Mardakert-Hadrut and only one road connecting mainland Armenia with Sunik and Artsakh – Yerevan-Goris-Stepanakert. This road runs through a highly mountainous area with many passes.

If a new war starts, the Armenians will find it extremely difficult to keep the narrow Lachin corridor from the enemy’s two-side strikes, but even if they retain Lachin, the enemy will use its artillery and aviation to make it as hard as possible for Armenia to quickly transfer big military forces and material and medical assistance to Artsakh.

Meanwhile, the fate of Artsakh will depend exactly on how quickly Armenia will supply it with troops as the Defense Army of Artsakh may prove not strong enough to resist the onslaught of the greatly prevalent enemy.

Thus, you clearly see that the liberated territory is extremely important for keeping the military balance between the conflicting sides, while its surrender by the Armenian side will break it to Azerbaijan’s advantage and will strongly aggravate the military-strategic situation of the Armenian states – something neither peace agreements nor international peacekeepers will compensate for. This is especially dangerous as Azerbaijan is heavily swelling its military potential, particularly, by redoubling its military budget in 2006 — from $300 mln to $600 mln – while Armenia will hardly be able to keep pace in the coming years for the following reasons:

1. The state budget of Armenia is 3.5 times smaller than the state budget of Azerbaijan ($1 bln against $3.5bln) and this gap will continue to grow as Azerbaijan will increase its oil exports. Meanwhile, Armenia’s economic potential will not allow this country to allot as much money to the military as to keep the military parity with Azerbaijan.

2. Armenia can no longer hope for the big free military hardware supplies that it got from Russia in the mid 1990s and that helped it to keep military balance with Azerbaijan for the last decade. The key military partner of Armenia, Russia has begun to show more pragmatic policy in the last years, with no political or economic preferences.

Hence, only by retaining the liberated territory, carrying out military reforms and improving the state administration system as a whole will the Armenian side be able to offset the growing military potential of the enemy and, thereby, to keep the Azeri side from temptation to resume military actions.

Given the continuing variance of the sides concerning the status of Artsakh, any change in the present configuration of the contact line will not stop the conflict but will simply create another, much more conflict-prone situation in the sphere of security.

Should Azerbaijan, whose leadership keeps saying that it will never put up with the loss of Karabakh, agree to sign peace agreements, but will later prove not content with the return of just six districts and will make up its mind to get back the whole Artsakh by war, Armenia will get in a serious danger.

Turning to advantage the change in the military balance and the consequent vulnerability of Artsakh’s whole defense system, Azerbaijan may use some convenient political moment to launch a blitzkrieg attack and to occupy Artsakh. In order to break the frontline, the Azeris will quickly concentrate strongly prevalent forces for one main blow – not a hard thing to do for them given the big quantitative and technical prevalence of the Azeri Army over the Defense Army of Artsakh and the facts that 70% of Azeri troops are deployed near the frontline and that Azerbaijan has better capacities for quickly deploying mobilized troops to the Artsakh front. The outcome of the war will greatly depend on its very first days, particularly, on the ability of the Defense Army of Artsakh to keep the frontline intact, which may prove quite a hard job.

Armenia will have very limited capacities to help Artsakh: it will not be able to use the vulnerable Lachin corridor for transferring big military contingents. If the frontline is broken and the Armenian troops fail to stop the enemy at Stepanakert, the Armenian side may lose not only Artsakh but also Sunik. If Azerbaijan occupies Artsakh, Turkey will certainly encourage it to try to make true the Pan-Turkic dream: to seize the Meghri district, thereby, linking Azerbaijan with Turkey and cutting Armenia from Iran. To this end, the enemy may strike from two sides – from Zangelan and Nakhichevan. After losing Artsakh, it will be extremely hard for the Armenian side to keep Meghri: the district is very narrow and lacks the necessary defense depth, while the motor roads connecting it with the rest of Armenia are quite vulnerable.

The liquidation of Serbian Krajina in Croatia in 1995 is one example of how real this scenario can be: Croatia broke earlier cease-fire agreements, mobilized its armed forces and suddenly attacked Serbian Krajina. In some few days they broke the frontline and occupied the region. As a result, Serbian Krajina stopped to exist and half million of Serbs were forced to leave their homeland and become refugees. This tragedy happened in the center of Europe in the presence of thousands-strong UN peacekeeping contingent and led to no sanctions against the aggressor side.

Conclusions:

1. One of the key factors keeping the military balance between Armenia and Artsakh, from the one side, and Azerbaijan, from the other, and compensating for Azerbaijan’s personnel and hardware superiority and capacity to increase its military potential is the present optimal configuration of the Artsakh frontline.

2. The existing military balance rather than the cease-fire agreement of 1994 is keeping Azerbaijan back from resuming large-scale military actions.

3. By giving back any part of the liberated territory, the Armenian side will give Azerbaijan a military advantage and will reduce its own military security. This may inspire the enemy – should there be convenient moment — to solve the Karabakh problem by war. That’s why it is absolutely inadmissible to surrender the liberated territory to the enemy.

4. Given the aggressive and genocide-prone Azeri-Turkish alliance, with its overwhelming military prevalence and open desire to destroy the Armenian statehood, the key security guarantee for Armenia and Artsakh must be the Armenian Army and the present territory of the Armenian states (42,000 sq. km.)

[levon]

Re: Dashnaktsutyun - Armenian Revolutionary Federation

Levon i really wish you would either think befor you post stuff or just plain stfu.

I think before I post, and just because what you say is plain idiotic and I disagree with it does not mean I've committed a wrong.

Your errors miiror those of many others here and have been and will be proven wrong all over again just like the protocals and the sarkisian situation.

First of all, its mirror not miiror, protocols not protocals, and Sarkisyan not sarkisian. So before you try to point out my errors, fix yours first. Then, afterward I will ask you to prove that the statement you just made isn't like the many unsupported statements you are known to make when engaged in an argument.

What you dont see and dont understand is that this is not just up to Armenia and azeris.

If Armenia decides to give back lands, it would be up to Armenians and if Azeris decide to give up their claims it would be entirely up to them.

There are greater powers involved here and non bigger then Russia. Russia will pretty much dictate this situation just as it has for a long time done so.

OOOOH, so you mean how before Azerbaijan formally broke away from Soviet Union and Russians were actively sending infantry to support the Azeri offensives, and how the Russians pretty much destroyed several villages, it wasn't up to us? Well, we fought back, and had we not, there wouldn't be us anymore. But I guess you were safely tucked away in the US learning how to be a wuss.

There would have been a war already if it was not for Russian invasion of Georgia.

REALLY??? Or maybe that's just Azeri propaganda aimed at spreading fear amongst the Armenian public to make their threats of war more real? Think about it.

The Russians warned the Azeris of restarting hostilities at the time and scared them off from starting another war.

Interesting interpretation. In my opinion, Azeris just spread lies about how they were ready to attack and only stopped because of "mighty Russia". Don't forget, just over two years ago Azeris launched an offensive during the post-election turmoil in Armenia, and there was no Russia to stop them. Our soldiers just f&cked them up and put them back to their place.
Take that into account before you claim that Azeris won't launch an offensive without Russia's approval.

It is good and well to fight for and defend your country but those regions are not our country and are not even populated by our people nor anyone else for that matter.

Those regions are our country, and just because they're not populated now, they will be populated by Armenians sooner or later.
The quickest way to lose something is to believe it was never yours to begin with

People fight for what is right, to save their own lives or the ones of their loved ones-countrymen... this is the reason we won in kharabagh.

The reason we won Karabagh was because if we lost, there wouldn't be Armenia. There is no right or wrong in war, just winners and losers.

Those regions surrounding kharabagh are bargaining chips intended to be used as such and i have no problem with the Armenian government doing just that.

As I said, comments like yours completely disrespect all the soldiers who shed blood in order to obtain those lands. You have no problem with that??, well then, you go and tell that to the vets who came back having lost many friends, and the the families of lost soldiers. Tell that to the kids that when asked "what do you want to be when you grow up", answered "I want to be a fallen Fedayee". You know what they will answer in return, GO F&CK YOURSELF, that's what they would say to your complete disregard for a Fedayees sacrifice.