Dashnaktsutyun - Armenian Revolutionary Federation

[UrMistake]

Re: Dashnaktsutyun - Armenian Revolutionary Federation

I dont believe that still Haykakan will eat up so easy azeri propaganda..he have no belief in his people...
And if this regions are not inhabited by armenians that means that our lands in turkey or iran or georgia must not come to its rightfully owners?

[Haykakan]

Re: Dashnaktsutyun - Armenian Revolutionary Federation

Well Levon you simply prove your misconseption of reality everytime you make a post. There is no dought that people who believe they are fighting for the right reasons will fight much harder then those that dont think they are fighting for the right reasons, well there is no dought on this fact except i guess in your mind. Mr UrMistake i think it is indeed your mistake that you compare the regions in question to our legitimate historic homeland. Western Armenia is where most of our people made their history and culture, it truely is our homeland-where we came from and lived for thousends of years yet the mighty dashnaks abandoned much of it and even stopped those trying to win it back like Andranik. The comparison you make is like comparing apples and oranges. Iondontsi your post is strategicaly accurate but but it ignores a very important factor and that factor again is Russia. Russia has always controlled its immediate neighbors (i am including Armenia and Azerbadjian in this catagory) by depriving each of the strategic advantage. Due to the agreement the dashnaks made, Armenias western flank is completely not defendable, should Russia abandon our western front Yerevan will fall in less then a week because it is completely not defendable. This reliance on Russia is created by Russia in all of her neighbors. It has been a effective strategy for a long time and applies to us as well. Russia does not want Armenia to be self reliant neither economicaly nor militeraly and the same for the Azeris. Russia does not protect us from the turck for 90 years because of our looks and black eyes, it does it because it is in its interest to bufffer the turcks. Russia will only allow us to get stronger if it believes it would serve her interests and that is why alighning our interests with it is very important. I want more then anything else for Armenia to be selfrelient, strong, able to defend herself, economicaly successful but the reality is that Armenia is unable to accomplish any of this today. Wining a war against the Azeris is indeed a accomplishment but dont let it get to your heads, there are far bigger dangers for Armenia then the Azeris and the only thing holding those dangers from eating us is Russia. Yes indeed we are a dependent nation and to deny this is simply dillusional. We should all work for a stronger and better homeland but it is important to keep a firm grip on reality. It is the lack of this firm grip on reality that worries me about the dashnaks who fail time and again to identify what is in the nations interest.

[levon]

Re: Dashnaktsutyun - Armenian Revolutionary Federation

Well Levon you simply prove your misconseption of reality everytime you make a post. There is no dought that people who believe they are fighting for the right reasons will fight much harder then those that dont think they are fighting for the right reasons, well there is no dought on this fact except i guess in your mind.

There is no right nor wrong. You either fight to survive or fight to flee. This makes winners and losers. Winners simply wanted to survive and win more than the losers.

Oh, and btw, it misconception not misconseption, doubt not dought (I have no idea from where you could possibly come up with the spelling dought, but then again, your ideas are very similar. Completely biased, fact-less, and prone to many errors.)

Here is a repeat of what I said earlier. Those who actually fought during the war will look at you and spit at your ideas, and some will tell you to go f&ck yourself. You display absolutely no understanding of what the reality of the war was, and what it means to simply label those lands as "bargaining chips".

Furthermore, if you would like to pray and praise Armenia's dependence on Russia, then keep doing so, but please, don't fool yourself into thinking that any Kharabagh Armenian will give an inch of land without bloodshed. People like you may crawl into the lion's nest hoping for protection, and completely surrender themselves to the lions commands. At the same time others will simply state death before dishonor and aim to continue our race, while the likes of you will keep screaming the irrational ideas of "peace through cooperation (with the most hostile of enemies), praise multi-ethnicity, and attempt to advance sissy-liberal values which will eventually lead to full assimilation of you and those like you.

Seriously, 4000 years of constant warfare suddenly disappeared from your mind as you rather rapidly draw friendship with the idea that hostile neighbors can live peacefully, that land gained through blood can be given for peace? We, Armenians have already given more than enough for peace, yet it has eluded us nonetheless.

We should learn our lessons and realize that no compromises, no sacrifices, no signs of weakness, and no giving in to the enemy are the only way to make sure of our survival. We need to be equipped with such a painful bite, that countries will think twice before trying anything. Our minds have to be fully focused on the overall goal, which is complete and utter protection of our homeland (which includes Karabagh and the surrounding areas under our control. We fought for it, therefore it's ours) no matter the consequences to us. We must be prepared to tell Russia or any other country to F&CK off if they attempt to force us into a compromising position.

Our ancestors did not perish just to see a country of liberal a$$, wishy-washy wimps who tremble in front of Azeri threats and Russian muscle. Have respect for them, and pull your head out of Russia's gigantic a$$hole.

[Haykakan]

Re: Dashnaktsutyun - Armenian Revolutionary Federation

There is no right nor wrong. You either fight to survive or fight to flee. This makes winners and losers. Winners simply wanted to survive and win more than the losers.

Oh, and btw, it misconception not misconseption, doubt not dought (I have no idea from where you could possibly come up with the spelling dought, but then again, your ideas are very similar. Completely biased, fact-less, and prone to many errors.)

Here is a repeat of what I said earlier. Those who actually fought during the war will look at you and spit at your ideas, and some will tell you to go f&ck yourself. You display absolutely no understanding of what the reality of the war was, and what it means to simply label those lands as "bargaining chips".

Furthermore, if you would like to pray and praise Armenia's dependence on Russia, then keep doing so, but please, don't fool yourself into thinking that any Kharabagh Armenian will give an inch of land without bloodshed. People like you may crawl into the lion's nest hoping for protection, and completely surrender themselves to the lions commands. At the same time others will simply state death before dishonor and aim to continue our race, while the likes of you will keep screaming the irrational ideas of "peace through cooperation (with the most hostile of enemies), praise multi-ethnicity, and attempt to advance sissy-liberal values which will eventually lead to full assimilation of you and those like you.

Seriously, 4000 years of constant warfare suddenly disappeared from your mind as you rather rapidly draw friendship with the idea that hostile neighbors can live peacefully, that land gained through blood can be given for peace? We, Armenians have already given more than enough for peace, yet it has eluded us nonetheless.

We should learn our lessons and realize that no compromises, no sacrifices, no signs of weakness, and no giving in to the enemy are the only way to make sure of our survival. We need to be equipped with such a painful bite, that countries will think twice before trying anything. Our minds have to be fully focused on the overall goal, which is complete and utter protection of our homeland (which includes Karabagh and the surrounding areas under our control. We fought for it, therefore it's ours) no matter the consequences to us. We must be prepared to tell Russia or any other country to F&CK off if they attempt to force us into a compromising position.

Our ancestors did not perish just to see a country of liberal a$$, wishy-washy wimps who tremble in front of Azeri threats and Russian muscle. Have respect for them, and pull your head out of Russia's gigantic a$$hole.

Well that was a long winded tiraid with nothing but emotional garbadge coming from a guy who laughs at women for the same kind of stuff. Exactly who is gona equip you with this "painful bite" you speak of? And again you continue with your simplistic ideas of warfair which make it obvious you know nothing at all about it. Armenia got all of its weapons from russia much of it either free or bellow cost but now that we have these weaps you simply want to forget about who gave them to you and "pull your head out of Russia's gigantic a$$hole". With logic like this you might last as a leader for a week or two but unfortunatly your not the only one this naive. Perhaps it would do you some good to follow your own advice and "pull your head out of your own gigantic a$$hole".

[levon]

Re: Dashnaktsutyun - Armenian Revolutionary Federation

Well that was a long winded tiraid with nothing but emotional garbadge coming from a guy who laughs at women for the same kind of stuff.

Respect for the fallen warriors and crying because she couldn't get the shoes she wanted are entirely different things.

Exactly who is gona equip you with this "painful bite" you speak of?

Makes no difference. It just means, if they attack we go all out, just as in Karabagh

And again you continue with your simplistic ideas of warfair which make it obvious you know nothing at all about it.

When you learn to properly spell, then may you can start trying to call things simplistic. The only thing simplistic at the moment is your elementary grade spelling (which must be tough for someone claiming to be in a master's program)

I grew up during the war, you on the other hand, were getting shot down by chicks left and right during that time (as you have confessed in another thread), so that's where my ideas come from, but yours I guess come from all the crying you did when you got shot down.

Armenia got all of its weapons from russia much of it either free or bellow cost but now that we have these weaps you simply want to forget about who gave them to you and "pull your head out of Russia's gigantic a$$hole".

Russia gave us weapons, that's great. But that gives Russia no right to expect it's a$$ licked. Don't forget, by giving Armenia weapons they effectively exert pressure on Azerbaijan. Don't for a moment think that it was just good will. They simply found it easier to arm Armenia and bring it to a position that could easily challenge Azerbaijan, at which point Azerbaijan lost a lot of negotiation power (as threats of war became meaningless) and Russia simply gained higher negotiating power by shifting the ball from Azeris to Armenia to Russia.

Russia don't give a sh!t about us. If things were different, if Azeris were strictly pro-Russia, and Russia controlled all Azeri oil, they would be supporting the Azeris instead. It's just a f$cking game, but I guess you don't get that.

With logic like this you might last as a leader for a week or two but unfortunatly your not the only one this naive.

Again, glaring spelling errors. Seriously, how hard is it to spell unfortunately correctly, but there you are, trying to form an argument with these errors in place, which already forces the reader to take you that much less seriously.

On to your actual comment. If you're calling me naive, then I would rather die a naive man knowing full well that I wasn't a coward, rather than rationalize away all my freedoms in the name of "Mother Russia"

Perhaps it would do you some good to follow your own advice and "pull your head out of your own gigantic a$$hole".

Wow, you have quite the imagination

[Haykakan]

Re: Dashnaktsutyun - Armenian Revolutionary Federation

Its kind of funny that the only thing you effectively criticize is my spelling which any word processor can fix but what is going to fix your lack of rational? Of course the Russians armed us to buffer the Azeris, thats what i have been saying all along yet you somehow conclude that you can now do whatever you want with the russian weapons. Where did i say they gave us the weapons out of good will? You know those weapoms break, they wear out, get stolen, get obsolete... We are gona need new weapons sooner or later and who is gona give them to us next time if we spit in Russias face? Clinging to Russia is our only hope and to think otherwise is suicide. No one wants to be in this situation and the only reason we are in it is because we have no other choice.

[levon]

Re: Dashnaktsutyun - Armenian Revolutionary Federation

Its kind of funny that the only thing you effectively criticize is my spelling which any word processor can fix but what is going to fix your lack of rational?

No, it's just that the only thing you can effectively counteract is your spelling. And seriously, if it isn't hard, then go ahead and fix your spelling as it is very distracting for the reader.

Of course the Russians armed us to buffer the Azeris, thats what i have been saying all along yet you somehow conclude that you can now do whatever you want with the russian weapons.

I've been saying that just because Russians armed us doesn't mean they give a damn about us, and so we must plan everything as if Russians weren't there. Funny, you agree with what I've been arguing, yet claim it has been your argument all along.

Where did i say they gave us the weapons out of good will?

Your praise of Armenia's relationship with Russia did its best to suggest that in your opinion Russia is simply willing to take care of Armenia just out of good wills.

Clinging to Russia is our only hope and to think otherwise is suicide.

No, clinging to Russia will only make our dependence stronger. What you're suggesting is the same as telling an addict that he should hangout with drug dealers, because otherwise he won't be able to get a fix and that would be suicide. F&ck Russia, while they're there, it's good, but in the mean time we must continue developing our own defense industry to lessen dependence on foreign weapon imports.

[Haykakan]

Re: Dashnaktsutyun - Armenian Revolutionary Federation

My whole point has been that Russia is doing with Armenia what is in her(Russias) best interest, show me a single example where as you claim i make any statement like Russia will take care of Armenia out of good will. I have never stated such a thing and the fact that you are making inferences like that means you have no argument and are resorting to making up bs to smear rather then to rationaly make any useful point. Russias and Armenias do coinside in very important areas thus clinging to Russia is indeed the right thing to do. Armenia should grow its own defence industry but in everything it does it has to keep the Russia factor in mind. This is our reality and it is irrelavent of what ignorent people think so long as they are not in power. The worst possible thing would be to put somone like Levon in power and then watch Armenia deteriorate because he didnt understand the extent of our dependence on Russia and made foolish decisions earning Russian retaliation. In the layout of whats to come we will be seeing a richer and more powerfull Russian federation while the west continues its decline. You indeed need to cling to Russia for it is the only gueranteer of any future for a Armenian state and its people. For all that Russia did bad during soviet times the clear fact that remains is that the standard of living even after all this time has yet to approach that which the armenian citizens enjoyed during the soviet era.

[gegev]

Re: Dashnaktsutyun - Armenian Revolutionary Federation

My whole point has been that Russia is doing with Armenia what is in her(Russias) best interest, show me a single example where as you claim i make any statement like Russia will take care of Armenia out of good will. I have never stated such a thing and the fact that you are making inferences like that means you have no argument and are resorting to making up bs to smear rather then to rationaly make any useful point ...

Your whole point is; to justify Russian unjust behavior towards Armenia, in any case, for some reason. Therefore no argument/s will change your mind; regardless how reasonable they are.

[levon]

Re: Dashnaktsutyun - Armenian Revolutionary Federation

show me a single example where as you claim i make any statement like Russia will take care of Armenia out of good will. I have never stated such a thing

Are you a total idiot? Do you know how to read? Can you tell the difference between explicit statements and implications that arise when one approaches an issue in a certain way? Are you sure you have a good enough command of the English language to actually understand what my comment meant.

How about you try one more time.

Your praise of Armenia's relationship with Russia did its best to suggest that in your opinion Russia is simply willing to take care of Armenia just out of good wills.

and the fact that you are making inferences like that means you have no argument and are resorting to making up bs to smear rather then to rationaly make any useful point.

Oh wait, you do know how to read, so then your whole argument is that I can't make deductions from your statements? wow, isn't that new.

Russias and Armenias do coinside in very important areas thus clinging to Russia is indeed the right thing to do.

You can cling to Russia as much as you want.

Armenia should grow its own defence industry but in everything it does it has to keep the Russia factor in mind.

F&ck the Russia factor. The only relevance is the Armenia factor.

This is our reality and it is irrelavent of what ignorent people think so long as they are not in power.

It's ok, people like you never get to power, but at least you acknowledge your own ignorance.

The worst possible thing would be to put somone like Levon in power and then watch Armenia deteriorate because he didnt understand the extent of our dependence on Russia and made foolish decisions earning Russian retaliation.

Huh? Is that supposed to be an insult to me?

You indeed need to cling to Russia for it is the only gueranteer of any future for a Armenian state and its people.

Only Armenians can guarantee the future of Armenia and its people, but you'll never understand that.

the standard of living even after all this time has yet to approach that which the armenian citizens enjoyed during the soviet era.

That's true for everyone in post-soviet republics, not just Armenia. The fact is simple, the soviet-union simply could not sustain military competition and economic growth at the same time, and so it failed. It has nothing to do with clinging to Russia.