Dashnaktsutyun - Armenian Revolutionary Federation

[xtanbul]

Re: Dashnaktsutyun - Armenian Revolutionary Federation

Then how could you possibly explain the pogroms agaist the Greek population in Anatolia at the time of the Greek Independence War? Or you don't learn that at school, I guess.

Care to provide information on the pogrom against the Greek population of Anatolia at the time of the Greek war of independence?

Cause it looks like your getting your dates mixed.

[xtanbul]

Re: Dashnaktsutyun - Armenian Revolutionary Federation

There is a difference between converting and remaing the ethnicity you were before the conversion, and converting plus assuming a new racial and ethnic background. Most so called turks today are nothing but bastardized Assyrians, Arabs, Armenians, Greeks, Bulgarians, Serbs, Hungarians, etc.

You speak as if you have no knowledge on the Ottoman empire or any Anatolian empire for that matter. There was no sense of ethnic identity till very recently(meaning the 19th, 20th century). If you converted to Islam you became a Muslim which was identified with the ruling Ottoman class which spoke Turkish. Just as converting to Greek Orthodoxy meant Greek Orthodoxy was the only identity that defined you. Shaman Turkic nomads that travelled to Anatolia converted to Greek Orthodoxy in mass numbers and were considered Greek, they were even sent to Greece in the population exchange. The head of the Turkish Orthodox Church himself asked Atatürk to spare him and his 300 000 Turkish Orthodox community and not send them to Greece for they were Turkish. But since identity was ruled out on religion, they were all sent. Ever heard of Karamanlides/Karamanlı people? They were ethnic Turks who embraced Greek Orthodox. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karamanlides) The same story all over the Balkans, millions of Greek Orthodox Albanians, Romanians, Bulgarians, Slavs, Gypsys, Turks etc that embraced the Greek Orthodox religion make up modern day Greece.

Just as millions of Muslim Bonsians, Albanian, Bulgarian, Slavs, Greeks, Georgians, endless Caucasus people etc make up modern day Turkey.

On the Turkish-Greek population exchange:

"A Western observer, accustomed to a different system of social and national classifications, might conclude that this was no repatriation at all but two deportations into exile - - of Christian Turks to Greece, and of Muslim Greeks to Turkey,"

http://www.cyprus-conflict.net/turkey-greece%20history.htm

As for explaination of Anatolian Greeks taking part in the conflict, I stated that they supported it, many through volunteering to fight alongside with the Greeks of mainland Greece and the majority through spiratual support for their ethnic brothers. If you want to get into semantics we can say you didn't clearly identify what you meant by "support".

There were Greek uprisings all over Mora & the islands, why weren't there any uprisings for a Greek state in Anatolia?

Financial aid was very little to none from Anatolia, which led to some modern days Greeks to describe Anatolian Greeks as "traitors" and even treat Anatolian immigrants in an unwelcome manner when they reached Greece.

In the Greek film "Politiki Kouzina" the Anatolian Greek immigrant that goes to Greece explains that "the Turks kicked us out as if we were Greeks and the Greeks unwelcomed us as if we were Turks".

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0378897/

Good movie btw.

The point remains that as the ottoman empire started to decline, late 16th century, more and more the various ethnic groups from within the empire wanted their freedom, therefore nationalism was not something unique to Armenians or any of the other groups under the turkish yoke but a natural reaction to the hardships put upon the non turk population of the empire.

Anatolia is uncomparable to the Balkans geography & demographic wise. That was a mistake Russians and Armenians made almost a century ago.

[meline]

Re: Dashnaktsutyun - Armenian Revolutionary Federation

You've failed to explain how Anatolian Greeks took part in the Greek war of independence. I'll just have to assume you don't know much on the matter which it quite allright.

Then how could you possibly explain the pogroms agaist the Greek population in Anatolia at the time of the Greek Independence War? Or you don't learn that at school, I guess.

[Armanen]

Re: Dashnaktsutyun - Armenian Revolutionary Federation

Thats generally how religions spread.



You've failed to explain how Anatolian Greeks took part in the Greek war of independence. I'll just have to assume you don't know much on the matter which it quite allright.

There is a difference between converting and remaing the ethnicity you were before the conversion, and converting plus assuming a new racial and ethnic background. Most so called turks today are nothing but bastardized Assyrians, Arabs, Armenians, Greeks, Bulgarians, Serbs, Hungarians, etc.

This is what I was pointing out to you.

As for explaination of Anatolian Greeks taking part in the conflict, I stated that they supported it, many through volunteering to fight alongside with the Greeks of mainland Greece and the majority through spiratual support for their ethnic brothers. If you want to get into semantics we can say you didn't clearly identify what you meant by "support".

The point remains that as the ottoman empire started to decline, late 16th century, more and more the various ethnic groups from within the empire wanted their freedom, therefore nationalism was not something unique to Armenians or any of the other groups under the turkish yoke but a natural reaction to the hardships put upon the non turk population of the empire.

[xtanbul]

Re: Dashnaktsutyun - Armenian Revolutionary Federation

And all of these people were forced either by pain of death or because of financial hardship to convert. Not to mention the annual rape & pillage expeditions that the seljuks and early ottomans would put on. Basically there is not true turkish ethnicity because it's a mixture of the local peoples found in the Asia Minor and the Balkans with the mongoloid seljuks and ottomans.

Thats generally how religions spread.

Because I don't get my information from turkish textbooks or "history" books.

You've failed to explain how Anatolian Greeks took part in the Greek war of independence. I'll just have to assume you don't know much on the matter which it quite allright.

[xtanbul]

Re: Dashnaktsutyun - Armenian Revolutionary Federation

Living like Kurds? No thanks, Turkoglu.

Coincidentally today kurds are living on former Armenians lands and Armenian houses. They don't seem to be complaining.

[Armanen]

Re: Dashnaktsutyun - Armenian Revolutionary Federation

The majority of Turks have Anatolian, Middle Eastern, Balkan, Caucasus roots. How can they occupy their own lands?

And all of these people were forced either by pain of death or because of financial hardship to convert. Not to mention the annual rape & pillage expeditions that the seljuks and early ottomans would put on. Basically there is not true turkish ethnicity because it's a mixture of the local peoples found in the Asia Minor and the Balkans with the mongoloid seljuks and ottomans.

Since Anatolian Greeks didn't take part in the Greek war of independence, how do you know they supported it?

Because I don't get my information from turkish textbooks or "history" books.

[Armenian]

Re: Dashnaktsutyun - Armenian Revolutionary Federation

If there was no Tashnak and Hinchak, I believe Armenians would be living in their ancestral lands today.

Living like Kurds? No thanks, Turkoglu.

[xtanbul]

Re: Dashnaktsutyun - Armenian Revolutionary Federation

I know that's what they would like you to believe in turkey, but the truth is Greeks in all parts of the ottoman empire supported the independence of mainland Greece from the turkish yoke. Whether they actually fight against the turks is a different story.

Since Anatolian Greeks didn't take part in the Greek war of independence, how do you know they supported it?

Maybe, maybe not. Point is that turks are interlocaters to the area, and will have to give up the occupied lands one day soon, whether through peaceful means or war, will be up to your masters in london and tel aviv.

The majority of Turks have Anatolian, Middle Eastern, Balkan, Caucasus roots. How can they occupy their own lands?

I've lived in Turkey my whole life and the only Central Asians I've seen are the refugees Turkey accepted (mostly refugees who escaped Russian oppression from Afghanistan, Uzbekistan, the Turkic republics in the RF etc) in goodwill.

Peoples have converted all along history, it doesn't take away their say over their lands. So my ancestors converted to Islam, thats no reason for me to be less Anatolian.

[Armanen]

Re: Dashnaktsutyun - Armenian Revolutionary Federation

The Greek war of independence took place in the Peloponnese/Mora not Anatolia. Anatolian Greeks didn't even take place in it(that is a very clear indication of how Anatolia was free of ethnic tensions). Anatolian Greeks didn't even experience Greek nationalism till after WW1 (the Greek asia minor campaigne).

I know that's what they would like you to believe in turkey, but the truth is Greeks in all parts of the ottoman empire supported the independence of mainland Greece from the turkish yoke. Whether they actually fight against the turks is a different story.

I have no nomadic ancestry. Just like the majority of modern Turks don't. Our ancestors accepting Islam and embracing the Turkish lifestyle at some point down history doesn't make us any less legitimate owners of these lands.

Maybe, maybe not. Point is that turks are interlocaters to the area, and will have to give up the occupied lands one day soon, whether through peaceful means or war, will be up to your masters in london and tel aviv.