The Case for Siamanto and Other Forward-Thinking Armenians

[Armanen]

Re: The Case for Siamanto and Other Forward-Thinking Armenians

Are you referring to what the Mexicans call "Aztlan"? That's a mestizo pipe dream if I ever heard one! lol

Well, if you take a look at the make up of southern california, and now the rest of the southwest, plus as you seemed to agree (the empire is crumbling), then would it really be that suprising to see non integrated mexicans claim land that did belong to them, as you pointed out with the Ossetians and Chechians? Plus, since 2005, more hispanic babies have been born in california than white, non hispanic.

The difference between those breakaway nations and Armenia is that the breakaway nation had historic ties to the land (The Armenians in Azer., The Chechyns, and currently the Ossetians in Georgia). A foreign population that immigrated to Armenia from places such as Africa and China would have no motive to secede.

I see you point, and it would be more valid if an independent chechnya could actually survive on its own. The fact is various anti Russian elements from the west and turkey, pakistan, Iran to lessor extent, fanned the flames, most chechians didn't want independence, just autonomy. It wouldn't be a stretch to see the same occur in Armenia if we had large minorty groups.

And how do you explain what happened to Serbia? Kosovo never was albanian and until 50 years ago when Yugoslavia decided to let albanian migrants come into that area, never even had a population of albanians above 15%. I see Serbia losing Kosovo almost akin to Armenia losing Artsakh.

[yerazhishda]

Re: The Case for Siamanto and Other Forward-Thinking Armenians

It matters because the larger a minority is the more chances that seccesion can occur, such as what happened in Serbia, what happened to Mexico in regards to Texas, and will most likely happen when Mexicans finally take over southwestern u.s.

Are you referring to what the Mexicans call "Aztlan"? That's a mestizo pipe dream if I ever heard one! lol

Whether this occurs naturally because of ethnic strife, such as majority ethnic group harrassing the minority ethic group, or the flames of succestion are flamed from outside, as in the case of Chechnya, it is dangerious for a nation to deal. When one considers the aweful geopolitcal circumstance that Armenia already is in, the last thing we need are non Armenians who took advantage of our nation letting them live within our borders (assuming we ever have a large minority) and then one day decide to break away from Armenia.

The difference between those breakaway nations and Armenia is that the breakaway nation had historic ties to the land (The Armenians in Azer., The Chechyns, and currently the Ossetians in Georgia). A foreign population that immigrated to Armenia from places such as Africa and China would have no motive to secede.

This is more or less what occured in kosovo, and please do not repeat the bs about genocide committed against the albanians, there is enough evidence online for you to do your own research and see that the media (willingly or not) misinformed the public both about the bosnak-serb conflict and the one in kosovo.

Wow that's the first time I heard that it wasn't a genocide. I'll have to look that up. What about Milosevic? I thought he was an oppressive dictator.

[Armanen]

Re: The Case for Siamanto and Other Forward-Thinking Armenians

Although I hear what you're saying, I'm still not sure why it matters whether Armenia is 98% ethnic Armenian or whether it's 80%. Armenia is in a very small minority of ethnically homogenous countries; I think there are only 10 in the world with 95% or more ethnic homogenity (sp?).

Even if Armenia was 10% or even 20% black, how would this affect the survival of the nation if those blacks were dedicated to the homeland?

It matters because the larger a minority is the more chances that seccesion can occur, such as what happened in Serbia, what happened to Mexico in regards to Texas, and will most likely happen when Mexicans finally take over southwestern u.s. Whether this occurs naturally because of ethnic strife, such as majority ethnic group harrassing the minority ethic group, or the flames of succestion are flamed from outside, as in the case of Chechnya, it is dangerious for a nation to deal. When one considers the aweful geopolitcal circumstance that Armenia already is in, the last thing we need are non Armenians who took advantage of our nation letting them live within our borders (assuming we ever have a large minority) and then one day decide to break away from Armenia. This is more or less what occured in kosovo, and please do not repeat the bs about genocide committed against the albanians, there is enough evidence online for you to do your own research and see that the media (willingly or not) misinformed the public both about the bosnak-serb conflict and the one in kosovo.

[yerazhishda]

Re: The Case for Siamanto and Other Forward-Thinking Armenians

Yerazhishda you have never been in Hayastan have nver talken to the people there go and visit the country talk to the people on the streets talk to to the people living in village and than come back and tell us those ideas again.

I'm working on it. I'm applying to a couple of universities where going to Armenia for a year is an option.

Maybe I'll find a nice Hye girl and decide to stay.

[yerazhishda]

Re: The Case for Siamanto and Other Forward-Thinking Armenians

I have stated this opinion here before but I will do so again. I am perhaps the most strict with this opinion of mine on this forum, and others can chime in or disagree. I firmly believe that to be Armenian requires blood, as well as culture.

Most certainly in the diaspora but 100% of the time in the hayrenik? Is a black who is fighting and dying for Armenia not Armenian?

btw, I remember my father saying that if a diasporan goes to Armenia, they will not view them as an "Armenian", but whatever their nationality is. Is that true?

Race and ethnicity is such a taboo topic, yet perhaps the most interesting and vibrant, holding the key to many of the questions we all seek answers to, and of course, a very potent trend in history in the rises and falls of peoples and cultures.

You can also attribute the rise and falls of peoples to class struggles, radical ideologies, etc. Race is just one way to describe the events of history.

So while these said Armenians I alluded to are Armenian genetically (which is a blessing), they are less Armenian culturally, and just as dangerous as having someone who is black try to be "Armenian." I think the difference here is that while in your case and many other half or part Armenians I have encountered have been part Irish, English, European, etc., it is not that much of a rift as it is still part of the same Caucasian gene pool, more or less.

You're right, I am better off (in terms of being accepted by the Armenian community) as full caucasian; even though I'm "white" I can still say "I am Armenian" and no one will give it a second thought.

However, when some of these hippie types attempt to get an Asian or Black to convert to being "Armenian" is just something I firmly disagree with.

I don't think the problem is as much as keeping Blacks and Asians out of Armenia than it is keeping Armenians in Armenia.

And I always point to the far East (China, Koreas, Japan) and how they champion their purity (purity, in the sense that to the extent they can keep other non-native racial types out of their gene pool). I do not want Armenians, nor Armenia, to be poisoned by these Western ideas of 'egalite'.

Right, but it's not necessary for a black Armenian (nationality), serving in the Armenian military to be subjected to harrasment day in and day out. They are not better than he is and vice-versa. He is serving Armenia and should be lauded for that - regardless of his "race" or "ethnicity"

Nation-states are a detriment to the existence of all types of people and cultures.

They helpful, however, in that they can give organized protection to peoples that would otherwise be subject to foreign rule.

Those who promote and trumpet diversity miss the essential paradox that the more you support this notion, the more diversity will stamp out and destroy diversity. To then maintain diversity, just like liberty, requires eternal vigilance. In 50 years, England, France, America will be majority non-white. Somewhere in this racial deluge of mixing, somewhere in this wasteland of diversity, somewhere in this melange, Armenians and Armenia will be. That's all that matters to me.

Although I hear what you're saying, I'm still not sure why it matters whether Armenia is 98% ethnic Armenian or whether it's 80%. Armenia is in a very small minority of ethnically homogenous countries; I think there are only 10 in the world with 95% or more ethnic homogenity (sp?).

Even if Armenia was 10% or even 20% black, how would this affect the survival of the nation if those blacks were dedicated to the homeland?

[KarotheGreat]

Re: The Case for Siamanto and Other Forward-Thinking Armenians

Spoken like true Hay and nationalis anon. My comments were directed towards the idea that nationalism or ultra-nationalism is a bad thing and your ideas are good. Your ideas will work maybe in the west but it will never work in Armenia.
Yerazhishda you have never been in Hayastan have nver talken to the people there go and visit the country talk to the people on the streets talk to to the people living in village and than come back and tell us those ideas again.

Zeytunci have you ever been to hayastan, or do you live there now. I've been born there I saw the state beeing created so please don't Bs me what Hayastan is or isn't.

[Anonymouse]

Re: The Case for Siamanto and Other Forward-Thinking Armenians

But at least they're 100% Hye.

I know the type because we have those types on the east coast too, except in lesser numbers. They'll be the first to extol themselves because of how "Armenian" they are while not making any effort to learn the language, history or culture. Going to church be seen and to assure each other that you're still "Armenian" does not make you Armenian.

I have stated this opinion here before but I will do so again. I am perhaps the most strict with this opinion of mine on this forum, and others can chime in or disagree. I firmly believe that to be Armenian requires blood, as well as culture. While no people are "pure" that does not mean anything. It is a red herring that egalitarians often use to somehow stifle discussions of preserving your kind. And from then most discussions roll off into name-calling and accusations of racism, etc., which is just petty and childish and takes away from the thrust of uncomfortable topics and people who do not wish to expose their soft and comfortable minds to the inevitabilities that hide in life. To be Armenian then to me signifies some sort of genetic component, no less than being "white" or "black." After all, we always here of the phrase "hyi achker" which signifies that Armenian eyes are indeed different, and there is a reason for this and that it lies the soul of the people carried on by the genes. I can spot an Armenian in any group just by the eyes and gaze. That is not happenstance and that is not a social construct.

Race and ethnicity is such a taboo topic, yet perhaps the most interesting and vibrant, holding the key to many of the questions we all seek answers to, and of course, a very potent trend in history in the rises and falls of peoples and cultures.

So while these said Armenians I alluded to are Armenian genetically (which is a blessing), they are less Armenian culturally, and just as dangerous as having someone who is black try to be "Armenian." I think the difference here is that while in your case and many other half or part Armenians I have encountered have been part Irish, English, European, etc., it is not that much of a rift as it is still part of the same Caucasian gene pool, more or less.

However, when some of these hippie types attempt to get an Asian or Black to convert to being "Armenian" is just something I firmly disagree with. And I always point to the far East (China, Koreas, Japan) and how they champion their purity (purity, in the sense that to the extent they can keep other non-native racial types out of their gene pool). I do not want Armenians, nor Armenia, to be poisoned by these Western ideas of 'egalite'. Someone who is black or Asian can acquire French citizenship and be called French, but they are not part of the Teutonic Latin peoples that is responsible for the creation of what we call France, named after the people who created it, The Franks. Similarly, I would not call someone who is Asian or Black acquiring Armenian citizenship as "Armenian" because that misses the whole point of this. Nation-states are a detriment to the existence of all types of people and cultures.

Armenians being a little people cannot afford to mix on grand scales. No one would worry if a million Chinese married blacks. There are alot of both of them. Furthermore, mixing with Asians and Blacks, is racial suicide because of their dominant genes. People will accuse me of racism, rather than face these uncomfortable discussions of race. Or the alternative, people attempt to throw stupid and simplistic quotes such as "Love is blind" which is the mother of all copouts. Love, like all things in life, is a choice. Most people confuse attraction with love. Sure, I have seen many attractive Asian women that I was attracted to, even some Mexican, or black, but does that mean I will fall in love? That requires a choice, a choice that I make to allow myself to fall for this person, open up my feelings to this person, etc. We are by no means unthinking animals or automatons not capable of choice.

Those who promote and trumpet diversity miss the essential paradox that the more you support this notion, the more diversity will stamp out and destroy diversity. To then maintain diversity, just like liberty, requires eternal vigilance. In 50 years, England, France, America will be majority non-white. Somewhere in this racial deluge of mixing, somewhere in this wasteland of diversity, somewhere in this melange, Armenians and Armenia will be. That's all that matters to me.

[yerazhishda]

Re: The Case for Siamanto and Other Forward-Thinking Armenians

No... I suspect depth and good character. But I don't want to speak too soon. You have not made a good first impression on me.

Well in that case...thank you I guess.

I'm not sure of the exact make up of my odar half (you know how the Western Europeans like to mix with anyone and everyone ) but I think I'm 25% English and 50% Irish.

To be honest though, I've never been interested in anything other than my Armenian heritage. That's not to make me look like a "better Armenian", it's just a fact: my odar half does not interest me. I'm not sure why.

[Armenian]

Re: The Case for Siamanto and Other Forward-Thinking Armenians

Are you being fecetious?

No... I suspect depth and good character. But I don't want to speak too soon. You have not made a good first impression on me.

[yerazhishda]

Re: The Case for Siamanto and Other Forward-Thinking Armenians

Hang on there. Many "Armenians" in Glendale don't speak Armenian. They are as "white-washed" and "otaramol" as they come. They are disgusting pieces of work, really. Knowing Armenian, and being able to spit out a few disjunctive sentences, does not mean you speak the damn language.

Most of them don't know anything about being Armenian other than parroting the same thing about April 24, "1915 Never Again." They really don't know the language, nor the history. They just mimic each other and stroke each other off on April 24, feel good about themselves, fulfill their yearly duty of pretending to be Armenian, and voila, back to being thugs, bros, hos and myspace sluts, what have you. That's most of Glendale.

But at least they're 100% Hye.

I know the type because we have those types on the east coast too, except in lesser numbers. They'll be the first to extol themselves because of how "Armenian" they are while not making any effort to learn the language, history or culture. Going to church be seen and to assure each other that you're still "Armenian" does not make you Armenian.