The Case for Siamanto and Other Forward-Thinking Armenians

[Anonymouse]

Re: The Case for Siamanto and Other Forward-Thinking Armenians

Why is Armenia doomed? And if it is doomed, what does it matter if Armenia keeps it's "Armenianness" or if anyone keeps their "Armenianness" for that matter?

I agree.

What's the difference? Death is death is death.

The difference is in the manner, and it revolves around principle, one is nobler the other is not, one is stronger, the other weaker, one is disciplined, the other capricious. I think it revolves on how you view this. If dying in battle is not seen as nobler than dying when engaged in self-gratification and prurient interests then by all means, it makes no difference.

[jgk3]

Re: The Case for Siamanto and Other Forward-Thinking Armenians

What's the difference? Death is death is death.

It's not the nature of the death that counts... Are you advocating that Life is life is life?

It is in what actions we take, what we fight for, believe in, work for and try to build, that mean the difference between being cattle, being a simple pawn, or being a pawn that is striving to make moves with whatever freedom he has to expand his influence so that he can make the world work for him, and change his destiny and that of others.

The end result of all these types of figures dying is always death, but which life was worth more, both to the one who lost it and to those who live to tell their tale?

[yerazhishda]

Re: The Case for Siamanto and Other Forward-Thinking Armenians

The difference is in the manner, and it revolves around principle, one is nobler the other is not, one is stronger, the other weaker, one is disciplined, the other capricious. I think it revolves on how you view this. If dying in battle is not seen as nobler than dying when engaged in self-gratification and prurient interests then by all means, it makes no difference.

Spoken like a true Nietzschean.

Dying in battle is nobler, even if no one remembers the battle in a couple hundred years?

[yerazhishda]

Re: The Case for Siamanto and Other Forward-Thinking Armenians

It's not the nature of the death that counts... Are you advocating that Life is life is life?

Most certainly not!

It is in what actions we take, what we fight for, believe in, work for and try to build, that mean the difference between being cattle, being a simple pawn, or being a pawn that is striving to make moves with whatever freedom he has to expand his influence so that he can make the world work for him, and change his destiny and that of others.

Then the question ends up being: what standard of value should we have when choosing "what actions to take" etc.? Should we serve the nation, God, ourselves. They all seem to be irreconciable; you cannot all three at the same time.

Should we serve our nation, which by its very nature is temporal.

Should we serve God, who may or may not exist.

Should we serve ourselves, which can lead to spiritual and social isolation.

Or something else?

[jgk3]

Re: The Case for Siamanto and Other Forward-Thinking Armenians

Most certainly not!



Then the question ends up being: what standard of value should we have when choosing "what actions to take" etc.? Should we serve the nation, God, ourselves. They all seem to be irreconciable; you cannot all three at the same time.

Should we serve our nation, which by its very nature is temporal.

Should we serve God, who may or may not exist.

Should we serve ourselves, which can lead to spiritual and social isolation.

Or something else?

I think overtime we can find ways to serve them all at once. Though personally I don't agree with your arguments per se on each category you listed above.

If you believe that our nation is defined by traditions (not necessarily defined by the present ritualistic manifestations of them, but instead by their underlying ethos, if you can identify it) followed by and instantiated by the acts of men from our race, then it is no longer as temporal-like as you make it sound, it is instead a matter of how ignorant, distracted or deliberately disinterested one is regarding their roots.

This explanation of nation is the only one I can come up with that can explain why Armenians have been able to carry on so long during the long epochs where we did not have our independence.

With regards to God existing or not, well if one engages in the simple act of having faith, it transcends the natural human cynicism we all are prone to experience when considering these ontological problems, and this faith alone can empower one to feel whatever benefits they have found through their spiritual stance.

And serving ourselves... well in the end, if we serve others and follow a path that is noble to us, it is hard to not receive the benefits in the process, and thus, hard to not serve the self in a lasting and motivating manner.

[Anonymouse]

Re: The Case for Siamanto and Other Forward-Thinking Armenians

It's not the nature of the death that counts... Are you advocating that Life is life is life?

It is in what actions we take, what we fight for, believe in, work for and try to build, that mean the difference between being cattle, being a simple pawn, or being a pawn that is striving to make moves with whatever freedom he has to expand his influence so that he can make the world work for him, and change his destiny and that of others.

The end result of all these types of figures dying is always death, but which life was worth more, both to the one who lost it and to those who live to tell their tale?

Like the quote from the movie Braveheart goes: "Every man dies. But not every man really lives."

[jgk3]

Re: The Case for Siamanto and Other Forward-Thinking Armenians

Like the quote from the movie Braveheart goes: "Every man dies. But not every man really lives."

yeah pretty much

[Armanen]

Re: The Case for Siamanto and Other Forward-Thinking Armenians

Like Mouse said, all this talk is just that, talk. None of us have the power to change anything (yet), most of us never will. So since I couldn't disagree with the eassy any more, and what I find wrong in it has been summed up well by others, I will just say that we will only find out who is "right" on this subject through action. Whether that is through another war with the turds/azeri or helping out Armenia in some other fashion, we will see who benefits Armenia and Armenians and who leads our great nation to oblivion (in all the manifestations).

Lezoun vosgor chonee!

[zeytuntsi]

Re: The Case for Siamanto and Other Forward-Thinking Armenians

To bad it was nationalists fighting in Artsakh, it was them who were dying there. Not forward thinkers, it were nationalists wo made the country independent. Yes nationalisme is so bad.

I hope all of you so called free minds will be there when Armenia needs you. But I'm not counting on it. It will be nationalists giving their lifes so the country they love more than their own lifes, more than the life of their families can exist. Think about that

Patriots who would gladly fight for their nation are not ultra-nationalists.
Most of those who fought were neither ultra-nationalists nor "forward thinkers," they were simple people fighting for what belongs to them, fighting to survive. As for those who went to fight from the Diaspora, ultra-nationalists were a minority and many were forward thinking Armenians.

Now, Armenia has a regular army and there's no need for ultra-nationalist paramilitary groups that are known to be destabilizing. And their uselessness for the well being of a nation is well known all around the world.
Isn't it time that you realized that Armenia is already a nation? Think abou that.

[KarotheGreat]

Re: The Case for Siamanto and Other Forward-Thinking Armenians

Patriots who would gladly fight for their nation are not ultra-nationalists.
Most of those who fought were neither ultra-nationalists nor "forward thinkers," they were simple people fighting for what belongs to them, fighting to survive. As for those who went to fight from the Diaspora, ultra-nationalists were a minority and many were forward thinking Armenians.

Now, Armenia has a regular army and there's no need for ultra-nationalist paramilitary groups that are known to be destabilizing. And their uselessness for the well being of a nation is well known all around the world.
Isn't it time that you realized that Armenia is already a nation? Think abou that.

LoL so you're calling the men from Armenia who went to Artsakh to fight not nationalists. They could have stayed home and only carred about Hayastan.

We have an army now but when a war starts the army will need every men to go and fight not losers who will talking xxxx when action is needed. Are you kidding me about the nationalists being the minority who fought there. All of them were nationalists.

And I think I know better that Armenia is a nation but what has it to do with anything. Does it still not need it's sons to return and fight for it. Will we sitt and watch how our brothers die instead of going there and risking our lifes for Armenia.