Discussion on Armenia's nation/culture/civilization/race

[Hye_Psycho]

Re: Discussion on Armenia's nation/culture/civilization/race

Quoted for truth. And I might add that the important issue for us Armenians is to bring more recognition to ancient Armenian history (1000 BC and earlier), because there are too many non Armenians writing our history for us and many of them have an agenda not all to favourable to us, as the article I posted showed.

Agreed. Im glad more Armenians take interest and raise concern over such issues which will come back to haunt us if nothing is done about it. my problem is not necessarily people trying to prove Armenians are not aryan, but rather those who want establish the Armenians as alien to their homeland.

also in respect to national pride and rasing nationalism amongst Armenians it is important to educate our people that not only are Armenians part of the historically most important and dominant sub race but that our modern and historical lands were more than likely the original homeland has well. As Njdeh said, "history is an extension of a nations character." This is what it boils down to..

Well is there an indo-European race? Has this been proven scientifically? By this logic I should have a strong anthropological connection to the slavs, Germanics ext…? And yet science tells me today that the genetic link between the Armenians on one side of a mountain would probably differ to the ones on the other side…I think some physical uniformity exists, just not the extent that one can label the Aryans as a united ethnic/racial sub group. Was there a united ‘race’ of Aryans at one stage in history? Possible, offcourse, but still very highly contentious. And if these people existed, their physical anthropology was bastardised long ago.

So this leaves us with a linguistic connection – true linguistics academics and scientists have proven a degree of uniformity among a select group of languages, which span several continents. But science and academia also teach us the frailty of linking linguistics with national culture, character and race – languages can easily be passed on, merged, re-created, become extinct – linking a hypothetical language family, with a hypothetical racial connection, and a whole host of other yet to be investigated theories to whole national groups is ok, as long as they are payed due worth and not simply dismissed as reality, but merely a possibility..

The more important question is what makes this ‘indo Europeans’ special. Aside from the very natural human trait of making ourselves feel superior to others, threes no real historical flesh to the ‘superiority’ argument many people propose. If early Aryan tribes existed as a united racial/national entity were they dominant? Perhaps. But were they any more dominant then Mongols? Or the invading Turks? Arabs? And then why use dominance as criteria? Armenians have rarely been dominant over their much larger neighbors, and yet we still survived through the millenia – that’s an admirable quality – not, for example the dominance shown by Anglo-Saxon jute tribes who ruthlessly massacred indigenous brits, then continued to imperialise smaller helpless nations. Importance? Importance is subjective. I for example take solace in the fact that Armenians were always few in numbers, as apposed to your hypothetical indo-European race, which would include a sizable chunk of the human population.


If we really want to back into history and knowledge the breadth of Armenians linguistic and anthropological past, we would see that Armenian Nation was comprised of several different tribes and ethine, and by no means exclusive to the hypothetical indo-European ‘race’ or language or culture for that matter. Armenians developed their unique civilisation in the Armenian highlands, and whatever subsequent Aryan tribe hypothetically migrated from these lands, established their own unique civilisations in their own part of the world.

"History is an extension of a nations character."
Indulging ourselves in Aryan mythology/politics does xxxx all to our Armenian cause, aside from complicating our pre-history. Put it this way the ancient civilizations that existed in the Armenian highlands from as early as man started grazing lands were not merely part of grander superior Aryan super race, but rather proto-Armenians who lived in these lands and slowly developed their own national consciousness, the same national character Njdeh refers to. This the theory I will hold onto, I will not deem it as fact, but rather an alternative to the unproven.

[Armanen]

Re: Discussion on Armenia's nation/culture/civilization/race

Realizing that Armenian is an Aryan or Indo-European (whatever you want to call it) language and that it had such a past at one point is an endeavor in and of itself. We do not do this to appease some pan-European wet dream, no more and no less than when we recognize Armenians form a distinct organic (genetic) people, with a distinct identity, or when we research into Armenian history to create a narrative. Such things are reasons to know and be in and of themselves.

Moreover, "European" is nothing more and nothing less than a geographic term. It is used as a line of demarcation supposedly. But we must not forget that borders and boundaries are artificial constructs and change overtime and history. I have seen maps that have included Armenia in "Europe" and maps that have included it in "Asia". It doesn't matter ultimately. Those are just external things that may as well not be. Armenia can be labeled in "Africa" or "South America" for all I care depending on how you draw the map of the world, it won't change the distinctness of Armenian culture.

Quoted for truth. And I might add that the important issue for us Armenians is to bring more recognition to ancient Armenian history (1000 BC and earlier), because there are too many non Armenians writing our history for us and many of them have an agenda not all to favorable to us, as the article I posted showed. Also in respect to national pride and rasing nationalism amongst Armenians it is important to educate our people that not only are Armenians part of the historically most important and dominant sub race but that our modern and historical lands were more than likely the original homeland has well. As Njdeh said, "history is an extension of a nations character." This is what it boils down to.

[Anonymouse]

Re: Discussion on Armenia's nation/culture/civilization/race

Realizing that Armenian is an Aryan or Indo-European (whatever you want to call it) language and that it had such a past at one point is an endeavor in and of itself. We do not do this to appease some pan-European wet dream, no more and no less than when we recognize Armenians form a distinct organic (genetic) people, with a distinct identity, or when we research into Armenian history to create a narrative. Such things are reasons to know and be in and of themselves.

Moreover, "European" is nothing more and nothing less than a geographic term. It is used as a line of demarcation supposedly. But we must not forget that borders and boundaries are artificial constructs and change overtime and history. I have seen maps that have included Armenia in "Europe" and maps that have included it in "Asia". It doesn't matter ultimately. Those are just external things that may as well not be. Armenia can be labeled in "Africa" or "South America" for all I care depending on how you draw the map of the world, it won't change the distinctness of Armenian culture.

[jgk3]

Re: Discussion on Armenia's nation/culture/civilization/race

Yep... Again, the approach imo is:

This respect for our Aryan civilization should not be abused however as just some means of identifying ourselves differently from Semitic neighbours (as they too, in their ancient cultures, have drawn upon motifs of similar significance, if not in common, with our own), this is very shallow. Instead, we should quite simply investigate it and strive to understand the significance behind it. Why do you think for thousands of years, man has lived with those beliefs? Modern schools teach us to think they were stupid and to never consider or even approach mythology without looking down on "the silly myths and strange rituals they lived with", because they never accomplished such monumental tasks as dissecting the human body to the degree we did.

There is no reason not to connect to the Aryan spirit from our traditional past and identify ourselves with it for the sole purpose of elevating our own self realization...

You're right hye_psycho, to caution against this sense of trying to appease dumb white nationalist movements with the relic of our Aryan past.

[Hye_Psycho]

Re: Discussion on Armenia's nation/culture/civilization/race

I don't quite understand the eager fascination to link 'Aryan' culture and civilization with that of Armenia. I have done my fair share of research in the area, and I often find the obsessive nature some Armenians take in regards to proving our 'Aryan' heritage has sometimes clouded their nationalist agenda, and forced them down a pan-European route. The crux of the problem does not stem with linking Armenia and Armenians to a broader indo-European pre-history, but rather the importance of that connection – which people for some reason put extreme emphasis on.

In my humble opinion, the Ancient/proto Armenians spoke both indo-European and non indo-European languages, these people often indulged in ‘Aryan’ culture, they fought against non-Aryan combatants, and I also believe if there was an indo-European homeland – Armenia would certainly be a primary contender given its historical/archaeological/linguistic and anthropological past.

But would I proclaim my Armenian civilisation as some kinf of Aryan offshoot? – Would I group proto-Armenians such as the Hittites, Hurrians, hyksos ext.. As simply part of a greater ‘Aryan’ culture to appease some kind of pan-European fantasy? No offcourse not. Armenians and proto-Armenians are not Semitic or even indo-European. We are Hye.

It’s also embarrassing to see Armenians trying desperately to fit our nation into European culture. Armenia forged its identity hundreds if not thousands of years before any pan-European civilization emerged.

[yerazhishda]

Re: Discussion on Armenia's nation/culture/civilization/race

The new generation of the Armenians in the Republic of Armenia, all they have to do is educate themselves with our vast and rich Armenian history and look back only 65 years when Hitler questioned Armenians whether we were of Semitic nationality/race and then at the time our most prominent Armenian schientists proved to the Nazis that we were indeed of Arian origin and NOT Semitic origin. Today the young and the educated generation of the Armenians have to look back through our history books and educate themselves that we are neither of J'ewish nor of Semitic origin. We are indeed Arians, we are indeed Armenians who initially were tribal millenia ago and we got mixed with the Urartians around the Vasbourakan, Lake Sevan region. We are definitely NOT J'ews and we are definitely Arians.

Abris, Anoush jan! Ays e jshmardoutiun@.

[jgk3]

Re: Discussion on Armenia's nation/culture/civilization/race

We are Aryan by definition. Everything about our civilization echos this. One just needs to understand Aryan mythology and symbolism (which I'm reading about now) to see that it is extremely abundant in our ancient culture. The eternal sun, eagles, fire, polar stars, solar divinity, female goddess of fertility, mountaintops signifying where the earth touches the heavens, deification of our kings... All of this is of Aryan tradition, and guess what, Armenian civilization didn't have it by coincidence. Even though we are Christians now, we do not need to forget our past. Our church has allowed for the absorption of the old rituals into our religion, and so it was never necessarily forgotten, just interpreted differently through a Christian context.

This respect for our Aryan civilization should not be abused however as just some means of identifying ourselves differently from Semitic neighbours (as they too, in their ancient cultures, have drawn upon motifs of similar significance, if not in common, with our own), this is very shallow. Instead, we should quite simply investigate it and strive to understand the significance behind it. Why do you think for thousands of years, man has lived with those beliefs? Modern schools teach us to think they were stupid and to never consider or even approach mythology without looking down on "the silly myths and strange rituals they lived with", because they never accomplished such monumental tasks as dissecting the human body to the degree we did.

And I'm sure standing on the land itself can be a truly awakening experience, this is something I look forward to.

[Anoush]

Re: Discussion on Armenia's nation/culture/civilization/race

Does anyone have more info on this? If true, the following is a major long term threat to the Armenian nation.



israel suppresses Armenian Genocide recognition campaign in U.S.

/PanARMENIAN.Net/ Besides all possible support to anti-Armenian activities in the United States, a number of Israeli scientific organizations with the help of some Armenian individuals are penetrating in various research centers in the U.S. and Europe, an Armenian expert said.

“The main goal of such “scientists” is to disseminate a pseudo-theory that the Armenian ethnos is Semitic and is similar to the xxxish nation,” Eduard Abrahamyan, an expert of Mitq analytical center said in his “Israel’s policy in Caucasus: tasks and regional allies” article obtained by PanARMENIAN.Net.

“Spreading this propaganda throughout the United States, Israel tries to suppress the Armenian Genocide recognition campaign. Developing an opinion that Asia Minor is not the historical homeland of the Armenian people, Tel Aviv is eager to take control over the influential capital of the Armenian community through mass interfusion of the Armenian and xxxish Diasporas,” the article says.

“The Judaization project was worked out by Turkish and xxxish historians and psychologists in 1930ies with a purpose to suppress the Armenianhood with its memory of the 1915 events.

Pro-Turkish organizations and officials in Europe were pushing a theory of xxxish origin of Armenians.

The problem is that Armenian scientists do not realize the threat of this pseudo-theory, which is being persistently spread throughout the republic.

In other words, xxxish activists are fulfilling Turkey and Azerbaijan’s tasks in the republic,” the article says.

http://panarmenian.net/news/eng/?nid=28196

The new generation of the Armenians in the Republic of Armenia, all they have to do is educate themselves with our vast and rich Armenian history and look back only 65 years when Hitler questioned Armenians whether we were of Semitic nationality/race and then at the time our most prominent Armenian schientists proved to the Nazis that we were indeed of Arian origin and NOT Semitic origin. Today the young and the educated generation of the Armenians have to look back through our history books and educate themselves that we are neither of J'ewish nor of Semitic origin. We are indeed Arians, we are indeed Armenians who initially were tribal millenia ago and we got mixed with the Urartians around the Vasbourakan, Lake Sevan region. We are definitely NOT J'ews and we are definitely Arians.

[jgk3]

Re: Discussion on Armenia's nation/culture/civilization/race

Alright Israel, that's an act of war in my book.

[Armanen]

Re: Discussion on Armenia's nation/culture/civilization/race

Does anyone have more info on this? If true, the following is a major long term threat to the Armenian nation.



israel suppresses Armenian Genocide recognition campaign in U.S.

/PanARMENIAN.Net/ Besides all possible support to anti-Armenian activities in the United States, a number of Israeli scientific organizations with the help of some Armenian individuals are penetrating in various research centers in the U.S. and Europe, an Armenian expert said.

“The main goal of such “scientists” is to disseminate a pseudo-theory that the Armenian ethnos is Semitic and is similar to the xxxish nation,” Eduard Abrahamyan, an expert of Mitq analytical center said in his “Israel’s policy in Caucasus: tasks and regional allies” article obtained by PanARMENIAN.Net.

“Spreading this propaganda throughout the United States, Israel tries to suppress the Armenian Genocide recognition campaign. Developing an opinion that Asia Minor is not the historical homeland of the Armenian people, Tel Aviv is eager to take control over the influential capital of the Armenian community through mass interfusion of the Armenian and xxxish Diasporas,” the article says.

“The Judaization project was worked out by Turkish and xxxish historians and psychologists in 1930ies with a purpose to suppress the Armenianhood with its memory of the 1915 events.

Pro-Turkish organizations and officials in Europe were pushing a theory of xxxish origin of Armenians.

The problem is that Armenian scientists do not realize the threat of this pseudo-theory, which is being persistently spread throughout the republic.

In other words, xxxish activists are fulfilling Turkey and Azerbaijan’s tasks in the republic,” the article says.

http://panarmenian.net/news/eng/?nid=28196