Discussion on Armenia's nation/culture/civilization/race

[Lucin]

Re: Discussion on Armenia's nation/culture/civilization/race

Bolshevism (its early stages) proved to be the greatest evil of the 20th century. Artificially placed in Russia by western interests with the sole purpose of destroying the much coveted Russian Empire, Bolshevism is responsible for the murder of over ten million Christian Slavs, as well as tens of thousands of Armenians. Bolshevism is a dark page in human history. Bolshevism was actually one of the major geopolitical/socioeconomic factors that gave rise to Nazi Germany and made the deaths of tens of millions during the Second World War inevitable. Having said that, I ask you to look at the list below. One can write volumes upon volumes of political discourse and analysis based on the following list of Bolshevik operatives soon after the fall of the Russian Czar. Actually, one can rewrite history merely based upon this list. However, without religious and/or nationalistic fervor, reading the following list would 'not' have any impact upon the reader. Thus, the agenda to eliminate nationalistic and religious sentiments in people is an agenda to cover up certain crimes of the past and prepare the field for further crimes in the future...

Do a simple test with yourself. Train yourself to look at the following list as a liberal, Godless globalist within no political, religious or racial/nationalist views - in other words, your typical westerner today.

And then switch on your Armenian (or Russian) nationalist/Orthodox Christian mode and reread the list...

How do you feel with each approach? Do you see why they would like you to forget race, nationalism and religion?

Jews and Bolshevism

The most detailed description of xxxish influence in the Bolshevik 'revolution comes from Robert Wilton, the Russian correspondent of The Times. In 1920 he published a book in French, Les Derniers Jours des Romanofs, which gave the racial background of all the members of the Soviet government. (This does not appear in the later English translation, for some odd reason.) After the publication of this monumental work, Wilton was ostracised by the press, and he died in poverty in 1925. He reported that the Central Committee of the Bolshevik Party was made up as follows:

NAME NATIONALITY
Bronstein (Trotsky) xxx
Apfelbaum (Zinovief) xxx
Lourie (Larine) xxx
Ouritski xxx
Volodarski xxx
Rosenfeldt (Kamanef) xxx
Smidovitch xxx
Sverdlof (Yankel) xxx
Nakhamkes (Steklof) xxx
Ulyanov (Lenin) Russian
Krylenko Russian
Lounatcharski Russian

"The Council of the People's Commissars comprises the following:

MINISTRY NAME NATIONALITY
President Ulyanov (Lenin) Russian
Foreign Affairs Tchitcherine Russian
Nationalities Djugashvili (Stalin) Georgian
Agriculture Protian Armenian
Economic Council Lourie (Larine) xxx
Food Schlichter xxx
Army & Navy Bronstein (Trotsky) xxx
State Control Lander xxx
State Lands Kauffman xxx
Works V. Schmidt xxx
Social Relief E. Lelina (Knigissen) xxxess
Public Instruction Lounatcharsky Russian
Religions Spitzberg xxx
Interior Apfelbaum (Zinovief) xxx
Hygiene Anvelt xxx
Finance Isidore Goukovski xxx
Press Volodarski xxx
Elections Ouritski xxx
Justice I. Steinberg xxx
Refugees Fenigstein xxx
Refugees (assist.) Savitch xxx
Refugees (assist.) Zaslovski xxx

"The following is the list of members of the Central Executive Committee:

NAME NATIONALITY
Sverdlov (president) xxx
Avanessof (sec.) Armenian
Bruno Lett
Babtchinski xxx
Bukharin Russian
Weinberg xxx
Gailiss xxx
Ganzburg xxx
Danichevski xxx
Starck German
Sachs xxx
Scheinmann xxx
Erdling xxx
Landauer xxx
Linder xxx
Wolach Czech
Dimanstein xxx
Encukidze Georgian
Ermann xxx
Joffe xxx
Karkline xxx
Knigissen xxx
Rosenfeldt (Kamenef) xxx
Apfelbaum (Zinovief) xxx
Krylenko Russian
KrassikofSachs xxx
Kaprik xxx
Kaoul Lett
Ulyanov (lenin) Russian
Latsis xxx
Lander xxx
Lounatcharski Russian
Peterson Lett
Peters Lett
Roudzoutas xxx
Rosine xxx
Smidovitch xxx
Stoutchka Lett
Nakhamkes (Steklof) xxx
Sosnovski xxx
Skrytnik xxx
Bronstein (Trotsky) xxx
Teodorovitch xxx
Terian Armenian
Ouritski xxx
Telechkine Russian
Feldmann xxx
Froumkine xxx
Souriupa Ukranian
Tchavtchevadze Georgian
Scheikmann xxx
Rosental xxx
Achkinazi Imeretian
Karakhane Karaim (xxx)
Rose xxx
Sobelson (Radek) xxx
Sclichter xxx
Schikolini xxx
Chklianski xxx
Levine (Pravdine) xxx

"The following is the list of members of the Extraordinary Commission of Moscow:

NAME NATIONALITY
Dzerjinski (president) Pole
Peters (vice-president) Lett
Chklovski xxx
Kheifiss xxx
Zeistine xxx
Razmirovitch xxx
Kronberg xxx
Khaikina xxxess
Karlson Lett
Schaumann xxx
Leontovitch xxx
Jacob Goldine xxx
Glaperstein xxx
Kniggisen xxx
Latzis Lett
Schillenkuss xxx
Janson Lett
Rivkine xxx
Antonof Russian
Delafabre xxx
Tsitkine xxx
Roskirovitch xxx
G. Sverdlof xxx
Biesenski xxx
Blioumkine xxx
Alexandrevitch Russian
I. Model xxx
Routenberg xxx
Pines xxx
Sachs xxx
Daybol Lett
Saissoune Armenian
Deylkenen Lett
Liebert xxx
Vogel German
Zakiss Lett

Source: http://www.heretical.com/miscellx/bolshies.html

So do you see similarities between the Jewish infestation in the Bolshevik movement and that of the Young Turks? With that said, can't the Turks shift the blame easily on the Jews for their atrocities??

[Armenian]

Re: Discussion on Armenia's nation/culture/civilization/race

... p.s. that 1% difference in DNA could mean the difference between looking like a chimpanzee or not, but alas, there is no race

Excellent reply, young comrade. Due to forum mismanagement there has been an influx of idiots in this place lately. Since the defeat of nationalism on the battlefields of Europe and Asia during the Second World War, the globalist elite in the West has been working diligently to destroy religion (particularly Christianity), nationalism, the family and the very notion of race. The reason this is being done is obvious - control. With a weak family structure, no spirituality and no racialism/nationalism, the masses can be directly and efficiently exploited and manipulated with the minimum of effort, without the threat of revolutions and/or organized uprisings. There definitely is such a thing as race. Idiots who discount racial differences are the same ones that would talk about the vast differences between different breeds of dogs. Like human beings are genetically related to each other, likewise all dogs are related to each other. Like there are vast differences between the main human races, there are vast differences between dog breeds. Needless to say, even with less than 1% genetic differences between human races there is a great amount of difference between a Scandinavian and an Aboriginal Australian, between an African and an Asian. Likewise, there are great differences between a German Sheppard and a Chiwawa, although genetically speaking there are virtually no differences between the two breeds of dogs.

Regarding why they want you to forget racialism/nationalism/religion:

Bolshevism (its early stages) proved to be the greatest evil of the 20th century. Artificially placed in Russia by western interests with the sole purpose of destroying the much coveted Russian Empire, Bolshevism is responsible for the murder of over ten million Christian Slavs, as well as tens of thousands of Armenians. Bolshevism is a dark page in human history. Bolshevism was actually one of the major geopolitical/socioeconomic factors that gave rise to Nazi Germany and made the deaths of tens of millions during the Second World War inevitable. Having said that, I ask you to look at the list below. One can write volumes upon volumes of political discourse and analysis based on the following list of Bolshevik operatives soon after the fall of the Russian Czar. Actually, one can rewrite history merely based upon this list. However, without religious and/or nationalistic fervor, reading the following list would 'not' have any impact upon the reader. Thus, the agenda to eliminate nationalistic and religious sentiments in people is an agenda to cover up certain crimes of the past and prepare the field for further crimes in the future...

Do a simple test with yourself. Train yourself to look at the following list as a liberal, Godless globalist within no political, religious or racial/nationalist views - in other words, your typical westerner today.

And then switch on your Armenian (or Russian) nationalist/Orthodox Christian mode and reread the list...

How do you feel with each approach? Do you see why they would like you to forget race, nationalism and religion?

Jews and Bolshevism

The most detailed description of xxxish influence in the Bolshevik 'revolution comes from Robert Wilton, the Russian correspondent of The Times. In 1920 he published a book in French, Les Derniers Jours des Romanofs, which gave the racial background of all the members of the Soviet government. (This does not appear in the later English translation, for some odd reason.) After the publication of this monumental work, Wilton was ostracised by the press, and he died in poverty in 1925. He reported that the Central Committee of the Bolshevik Party was made up as follows:

NAME NATIONALITY
Bronstein (Trotsky) xxx
Apfelbaum (Zinovief) xxx
Lourie (Larine) xxx
Ouritski xxx
Volodarski xxx
Rosenfeldt (Kamanef) xxx
Smidovitch xxx
Sverdlof (Yankel) xxx
Nakhamkes (Steklof) xxx
Ulyanov (Lenin) Russian
Krylenko Russian
Lounatcharski Russian

"The Council of the People's Commissars comprises the following:

MINISTRY NAME NATIONALITY
President Ulyanov (Lenin) Russian
Foreign Affairs Tchitcherine Russian
Nationalities Djugashvili (Stalin) Georgian
Agriculture Protian Armenian
Economic Council Lourie (Larine) xxx
Food Schlichter xxx
Army & Navy Bronstein (Trotsky) xxx
State Control Lander xxx
State Lands Kauffman xxx
Works V. Schmidt xxx
Social Relief E. Lelina (Knigissen) xxxess
Public Instruction Lounatcharsky Russian
Religions Spitzberg xxx
Interior Apfelbaum (Zinovief) xxx
Hygiene Anvelt xxx
Finance Isidore Goukovski xxx
Press Volodarski xxx
Elections Ouritski xxx
Justice I. Steinberg xxx
Refugees Fenigstein xxx
Refugees (assist.) Savitch xxx
Refugees (assist.) Zaslovski xxx

"The following is the list of members of the Central Executive Committee:

NAME NATIONALITY
Sverdlov (president) xxx
Avanessof (sec.) Armenian
Bruno Lett
Babtchinski xxx
Bukharin Russian
Weinberg xxx
Gailiss xxx
Ganzburg xxx
Danichevski xxx
Starck German
Sachs xxx
Scheinmann xxx
Erdling xxx
Landauer xxx
Linder xxx
Wolach Czech
Dimanstein xxx
Encukidze Georgian
Ermann xxx
Joffe xxx
Karkline xxx
Knigissen xxx
Rosenfeldt (Kamenef) xxx
Apfelbaum (Zinovief) xxx
Krylenko Russian
KrassikofSachs xxx
Kaprik xxx
Kaoul Lett
Ulyanov (lenin) Russian
Latsis xxx
Lander xxx
Lounatcharski Russian
Peterson Lett
Peters Lett
Roudzoutas xxx
Rosine xxx
Smidovitch xxx
Stoutchka Lett
Nakhamkes (Steklof) xxx
Sosnovski xxx
Skrytnik xxx
Bronstein (Trotsky) xxx
Teodorovitch xxx
Terian Armenian
Ouritski xxx
Telechkine Russian
Feldmann xxx
Froumkine xxx
Souriupa Ukranian
Tchavtchevadze Georgian
Scheikmann xxx
Rosental xxx
Achkinazi Imeretian
Karakhane Karaim (xxx)
Rose xxx
Sobelson (Radek) xxx
Sclichter xxx
Schikolini xxx
Chklianski xxx
Levine (Pravdine) xxx

"The following is the list of members of the Extraordinary Commission of Moscow:

NAME NATIONALITY
Dzerjinski (president) Pole
Peters (vice-president) Lett
Chklovski xxx
Kheifiss xxx
Zeistine xxx
Razmirovitch xxx
Kronberg xxx
Khaikina xxxess
Karlson Lett
Schaumann xxx
Leontovitch xxx
Jacob Goldine xxx
Glaperstein xxx
Kniggisen xxx
Latzis Lett
Schillenkuss xxx
Janson Lett
Rivkine xxx
Antonof Russian
Delafabre xxx
Tsitkine xxx
Roskirovitch xxx
G. Sverdlof xxx
Biesenski xxx
Blioumkine xxx
Alexandrevitch Russian
I. Model xxx
Routenberg xxx
Pines xxx
Sachs xxx
Daybol Lett
Saissoune Armenian
Deylkenen Lett
Liebert xxx
Vogel German
Zakiss Lett

Source: http://www.heretical.com/miscellx/bolshies.html

[jgk3]

Re: Discussion on Armenia's nation/culture/civilization/race

A dandy answer, well I'm satisfied... there is no race. Lets all go home boys.

p.s. that 1% difference in DNA could mean the difference between looking like a chimpanzee or not, but alas, there is no race

[hipeter924]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Not Turkish blood thats for sure.

There is no race. They did studies. The difference between races is less than 1% which is almost negligible. There are just different cultures. That's what an anthropologist told me.

[Palavra]

Re: Discussion on Armenia's nation/culture/civilization/race

In order for there to be culture, there must be people. How can culture exist if there are no people to create it? Culture reflects people, not the other way around. There are high cultures and low cultures just like there are creators and bearers. On the whole, Turks fall more on the spectrum of bearers.

Peh peh, repeating youself do not prove anything. No matter how many time you do..

No one talked about Armenian culture being superior or inferior or Turkish culture being superior or inferior. Often times, I think you Turks come in here with a chip on your shoulders and start to have these fantastic imaginations.

Noone? where am I?

You say "Absorbed?" as if doubting my assertion that you have absorbed other peoples and cultures and then in the end of this paragraph you admit that you have. Thank you for validating my point in the most roundabout of ways.

You did not absorbed your surnames? So what was your point?

No one claims Turks did not produce culture. They were mostly relying on the customs, cultures and ideas of the conquered peoples than anything of their own ingenuity beyond their language

are you sure what are you talking? mostly relying others? how do you know it? Infact, none of us know who take from whom.

The Mongolian tribes were excellent military minded peoples and Turks being no exception were formidable militarily.

so what? germans were also military minded. romans are too. Infact, every nation who built an empire is military minded. This is totally unrelated with topic.

But culturally, they absorbed and took on their conquered peoples cultures.

So all people did. Still these does not show, They had no cultures or they did not built anything after their conquests..

And out of that melange emerged what is now modernly called Turkey. Everything from your architecture, to your script, to your religion belonged to the conquered peoples.

Blah blah. So you think, Ottomans only know to take from others but not built any thing at last 600 year. My friend, because you give us lahmacun(If It was armenian food.), That does not mean We stop to produce anything and only eat lahmacun.

never claimed you are Mongols. Your ancestors were of Mongoloid origin. People in Central Asia for the most part are of Mongolian stock.

are you talking about face and body or cultures? In Both way, Turks are not mongoloid now. We have no common thing with them except a past.

If I were you I wouldn't open my mouth unless it made sense.

If I were you, I would to same too.

What I was claiming is that historically, Turks are a reflection more so of the peoples they conquered than their actual Mongoloid origins.

our origins are as mongoloid as your origin is persian.. We are neighbor with mongols 1500 year before. I am sure, 1500 years reason some changes too. It is funny to hope, mongols and Turks would have still cultural similary after 1500 years.

All peoples have culture creating and culture bearing tendencies and in any given people one weighs more than the other.

So empires take more from other nations because They have more connections with others but that does not mean, They produce less than other people.

For exp, at last 1000 year, Turks produced much more than armenians..

This is reflected in your dress, your language script which is of Latin origin and previously relied heavily on Arabic and Persian loanwords, and even your religion.

do you think, we should stay like 1500 year before? English had more loan word than us. Wanna call them as german-latin bla bla bla.

I am claiming that Turkish identity is not about blood because it cannot be for it is too diluted and a result of an amalgamation of many absorbed cultures and peoples

Not only Amalgamation. USA is an amalgamation too but she produce cultures too..

And on a grand scale, Turkish culture has relied more heavily on bearing culture of its conquered peoples than producing its own. You don't have to like it, but that is the way it is.

Blah blah. Having a lot contact with other cultures does not mean, we did not produce our cultures.

We were bridge to a lot culture. We carried a lot thing from one part of empire to another part(So ofcourse we are effected more and this is a good thing.) but we produce our things too.

Blue mosque is not greek because Greeks partly effected our architect.

[Anonymouse]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

My friend, If there are people, So there is cultures. Culture is not a car which should be produced by intelligent nations like armenians.

In order for there to be culture, there must be people. How can culture exist if there are no people to create it? Culture reflects people, not the other way around. There are high cultures and low cultures just like there are creators and bearers. On the whole, Turks fall more on the spectrum of bearers.

I hope you wont waste my time to show your culture is superior or Turks have no cultures.Do you realy think, before We see armenians, we are liking as dogs?

No one talked about Armenian culture being superior or inferior or Turkish culture being superior or inferior. Often times, I think you Turks come in here with a chip on your shoulders and start to have these fantastic imaginations.

Absorbed? If there is dolma or baklava at all older ottomans land, It looks like It is not only Turks who absorbed other cultures.. Oh, We absorbed more than other nations thanks to our empire. It happened to all empires.

You say "Absorbed?" as if doubting my assertion that you have absorbed other peoples and cultures and then in the end of this paragraph you admit that you have. Thank you for validating my point in the most roundabout of ways.

who took from whom is a little unknown. Ofcourse, for an armenian, It should be Turks who took from other nations.. May dolma comes from balkain, arabic lands or armenia. It is unknown..

This is irrelevant since your forefathers were not native to the lands, they could only absorb what was there. Thus, Assyrians, Greeks, Armenians, Arabs, Slavs, etc., were all absorbed into your empire and along with those peoples foods and customs, regardless of where those peoples foods and customs originated. Remember, this isn't about dolma, but about your people as culture bearers.

Also, It is absurd to claim, Turks did not produce any culture at last 2000 year. So what are the turks? Animals?

No one claims Turks did not produce culture. They were mostly relying on the customs, cultures and ideas of the conquered peoples than anything of their own ingenuity beyond their language. The Mongolian tribes were excellent military minded peoples and Turks being no exception were formidable militarily. But culturally, they absorbed and took on their conquered peoples cultures. And out of that melange emerged what is now modernly called Turkey. Everything from your architecture, to your script, to your religion belonged to the conquered peoples.

First of all, we were never mongols. You are talking about Turkish culture but You dont even know who are Turks. Funny..

Secondly, Central asians are not mongols too..

Thirdly, half of your people have turkish surnames and you are talking about absorb?

I never claimed you are Mongols. Your ancestors were of Mongoloid origin. People in Central Asia for the most part are of Mongolian stock. When we claim Chinese, Korean and Japanese are morphologically 'Mongoloid' we do not mean they are Mongols as in the people, but with regard to classification of phenotype.

You think that Turks did not create a culture and You apologize? Apologize to my ass.

If I were you I wouldn't open my mouth unless it made sense. I was apologizing to the claims many Armenians throw at Turks about superiority or inferiority. This isn't about that. What I was claiming is that historically, Turks are a reflection more so of the peoples they conquered than their actual Mongoloid origins. All peoples have culture creating and culture bearing tendencies and in any given people one weighs more than the other.

This is reflected in your dress, your language script which is of Latin origin and previously relied heavily on Arabic and Persian loanwords, and even your religion. I am not claiming you are inferior. I am claiming that Turkish identity is not about blood because it cannot be for it is too diluted and a result of an amalgamation of many absorbed cultures and peoples. And on a grand scale, Turkish culture has relied more heavily on bearing culture of its conquered peoples than producing its own. You don't have to like it, but that is the way it is.

[Palavra]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Remember, there are culture creators and then there are culture bearers. Turks, for the most part are more on the spectrum of culture bearing, not culture creating.

My friend, If there are people, So there is cultures. Culture is not a car which should be produced by intelligent nations like armenians.

I hope you wont waste my time to show your culture is superior or Turks have no cultures.Do you realy think, before We see armenians, we are liking as dogs?

Thus, beyond their language, they've absorbed the people they have conquered and occupied.

Absorbed? If there is dolma or baklava at all older ottomans land, It looks like It is not only Turks who absorbed other cultures.. Oh, We absorbed more than other nations thanks to our empire. It happened to all empires.

who took from whom is a little unknown. Ofcourse, for an armenian, It should be Turks who took from other nations.. May dolma comes from balkain, arabic lands or armenia. It is unknown..

Also, It is absurd to claim, Turks did not produce any culture at last 2000 year. So what are the turks? Animals?

Hence, why you look more like a Middle Eastern than a Central Asian Mongol today and your food and music is a reflection of that more so than Mongol.

First of all, we were never mongols. You are talking about Turkish culture but You dont even know who are Turks. Funny..

Secondly, Central asians are not mongols too..

Thirdly, half of your people have turkish surnames and you are talking about absorb?

Lastly, I said becoming Turkish has no relation with blood. So You dont need to show me a lot pictures.

If you have encountered Armenians that have spoken about Armenian superiority and/or Turkish inferiority, I apologize on all of our behalf. That is certainly not the image nor vibe those of my stripe would like to exude.

You think that Turks did not create a culture and You apologize? Apologize to my ass.

[Anonymouse]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Unlike greek or armenian identity, "Turkish" identity is not about blood.

Remember, there are culture creators and then there are culture bearers. Turks, for the most part are more on the spectrum of culture bearing, not culture creating. Thus, beyond their language, they've absorbed the people they have conquered and occupied. Hence, why you look more like a Middle Eastern than a Central Asian Mongol today and your food and music is a reflection of that more so than Mongol.

[Palavra]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Unlike greek or armenian identity, "Turkish" identity is not about blood.

[Pazooki]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

Haha so our noble(Turkish) blood comes from there..I do not think, we can find noble blood at central asia. Anyway, which blood is more noble? Greek blood or armenian blood?




Tell me, who is murderer. I will inform Turkish police about him. It would be better to say who is murdered too..

Not Turkish blood thats for sure.