Azerbaijani irredentist dreams

[AlphaPapa]

Re: Azerbaijani irredentist dreams

Just remember Mr KGB/CIA or actual Azeri...this isn't 1988 and it isn't 1993...if you attack Stepanagerd this time, you can expect retaliation in Baku.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLuHkY5G-eU

We learned from our history, our choice isn't death or life, but rather how we die and we're too proud to die on our knees. You outnumber us in population, we outnumber you in heart.

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Azerbaijani irredentist dreams

Listen, I have done extensive research on this matter, going through archives of all current and ancient governments, and I have traced the roots of the current nation of Azerbaijan to its original borders. In the name of fairness, honesty, and good will, ALL ARMENIANS should acknowledge that they have a right to their lands and wish them the full extension of the borders that they deserve.

Below is a photograph of the map Alexander The Great used. He used the wise men of all the advanced civilizations of his day to come with this map. This, in the name of ethnic integrity, should be our goal for the future of the region.

I think this is something we can all agree on, right?

You know, because of the type of nonsense so often posted on this forum, for a moment I didn't realise you were making a joke!

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Azerbaijani irredentist dreams

This is a map of the First Republic of Armenia recognized by the international community: http://www.armenian-history.com/Nyut...of_Armenia.gif

The only "disputed area" was Karabakh, which at the time had an Armenian majority of over 95%. Even in 1988, after 70 years of Soviet rule, Karabakh still had more than a 75% Armenian majority. In regards to "Zangezur", besides being internationally-recognized as part of Armenia, there are also detailed records of Armenian military units being stationed in that region in that period.

Now, your second map of "Azerbaijan Democratic Republic"... Its produced by Azeris. The international community had not recognized those areas as part of Azerbaijan. Please realize this.

The borders of the first Armenian republic were recognised by nobody, neither were the borders of Azerbiajan, or of Georgia.

Honestly, sometimes you are like a bunch of kids squabbling.

Where is the map Azerbaijan presented to the Paris Peace Conference? The map that shows its claims stretching all the way to the Black Sea. In almost 20 years of war, has not a single Armenian had the wits to go to that source to reveal Azerbaijan's true irredentist claims? (Though at least one person, Monte Melkonian, had enough of an understanding of the longterm Azeri goals to realise that if Nagorno Karabakh was lost, Zanzegur would be next on Azerbaijan's irredentist hit list).

[AlphaPapa]

No amount of 'borders' matter. What matters is that a community defend itself from aggressors, whether it is under an Armenian, Azeri, or even Turkish flag.

I don't know about azeri dreams, but I do know about one particular azeri nightmare from 1993...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVuTFS6uuIg

[ArmSurvival]

Re: Azerbaijani irredentist dreams

The borders of the first Armenian republic were recognised by nobody, neither were the borders of Azerbiajan, or of Georgia.

You're right, they were not officially recognized, however they were de-facto recognized, by military means which were acknowledged by the United States and others. In the map I provided, Armenia had effective military control of those regions in the short period of their independence.

http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?_r=1&res=9503E0D9133FE432A25756C2A9629C946195D6CF

While stating that the recognition of independence is not equivalent with recognizing its borders, the United States (and by extension the international community) still acknowledged the de-facto borders of Armenia:

"The present Armenian Republic is composed of the former Province of Erivan, part of the Province of Kars, the southern part of the Province of Tiflis and part of the Province of Elizabethpol- all formerly Russian."

This is basically the description of the frontiers I posted.

On the question of official recognition of borders:

"This action is taken, however, with the understanding that this recognition in no way predetermines the territorial frontiers, which, it is understood, are matters for later determination."

The "later determination" was the Wilson arbitration and Treaty of Sevres, which defined Armenia as the First Republic+ Wilsonian Armenia.

Where is the map Azerbaijan presented to the Paris Peace Conference? The map that shows its claims stretching all the way to the Black Sea. In almost 20 years of war, has not a single Armenian had the wits to go to that source to reveal Azerbaijan's true irredentist claims? (Though at least one person, Monte Melkonian, had enough of an understanding of the longterm Azeri goals to realise that if Nagorno Karabakh was lost, Zanzegur would be next on Azerbaijan's irredentist hit list).

Yes, most of us know that Siunik was going to be invaded as soon as Karabakh fell into their hands. And apparently they have claims on Georgia, since karapapak is saying Georgia is next after Armenia. I think Azeris are taking their bogus map of the Islamic Caliphate a little too seriously