Medz Yeghern: Great Crime vs. Great Calamity

[Diranakir]

Re: Medz Yeghern: Great Crime vs. Great Calamity

Making a distinction between "ethnic cleansing" and "genocide" is a highly dubious exercise. Whenever you start killing people because of their identity, that is genocidal no matter what the body count. The Turkish commanders who supervised and directed the slaughter of Armenians in the Armenian Genocide referred to it as "cleansing". Let's be clear about that.

[Jos]

Re: Medz Yeghern: Great Crime vs. Great Calamity

Genocide does NOT describe a type of crime. The label "crime" is a statement of opinion by a select group. Something that is a "crime" this year may not have been a "crime" the year before, and (if those that make laws have second thoughts) may not be a "crime" next year. Yet that "something" that was firstly not criminal, then criminal, and then decriminalised, will remain exactly the same act. Only the label has changed.

So that's what a cat chasing its own tail looks like?

The facts are:
1) "Genocide" is a legal word.
2) It is a crime according to United Nations' Convention, treaties and has been ratified by most of the legislatures of Western member states.
3) The historical definition and the legal defintion have become infused with one another.
4) The modern interpretation is wholly based according to its legal definition.
5) It imposes obligations and penalties.

Which makes you out of touch with reality because most Armenians (if not all) would strongly disagree with your attempt to delineate the term from its legal connection.

[retro]

Re: Medz Yeghern: Great Crime vs. Great Calamity

Whilst the term "genocide" is used by the media to describe ethnic cleansing in modern confict zones, such as Rwanda and Darfur.

The longer the Turks drag this out, the worse it gets for them. As the very fact that the Turks are forced to constantly lobby against international Armenian Genocide recognition, publicises the nature of very issue that they are trying to suppress.

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Medz Yeghern: Great Crime vs. Great Calamity

So that's what a cat chasing its own tail looks like?

The facts are:
1) "Genocide" is a legal word.
2) It is a crime according to United Nations' Convention, treaties and has been ratified by most of the legislatures of Western member states.
3) The historical definition and the legal defintion have become infused with one another.
4) The modern interpretation is wholly based according to its legal definition.
5) It imposes obligations and penalties.

Which makes you out of touch with reality because most Armenians (if not all) would strongly disagree with your attempt to delineate the term from its legal connection.

Your payment in Turkish lira is in the mail. The Turkish state thanks you for the services you have rendered to it here, and hopes you can continue with this work.

[Eddo211]

Re: Medz Yeghern: Great Crime vs. Great Calamity

The bottom line is that the weasle Turks have many angles that they can play with the meaning of genocide and when it comes to THIS they come down with everything they got, and I mean everything. They have put the best political scientists and so called historians internally and externally that money can buy on twisting xxxx around, not to mention millions in lobby and constant threats in closing their airspace, airbase, and many lucrative defense contracts and disturbing peace talks in Middle East.
It also doesn’t help when the word genocide is thrown around recklessly these days and used on about every conflict out there just to make it look more horrifying when it doesn’t even come close to the definition.

The bottom line is that no country will recognize the AG unless it is in its national interests, so regardless of how you interpolated it or name it doesn’t really matter, the AG is a reality they all know very well...........they threatened Turkey back then and told them that they will pay dearly if they don’t stop this "race extermination" of Armenians. They want to play with words now? xxxx them all. They will be hunted forever.

[Diranakir]

Re: Medz Yeghern: Great Crime vs. Great Calamity

Getting It Right

"The Meds Yeghern, or the Great Crime, which is the Armenian term for the genocide, began on April 24, 1915."

http://www.dailybruin.com/articles/2010/4/30/armenian-community-time-doesnt-heal-all-wounds/

[Jos]

Re: Medz Yeghern: Great Crime vs. Great Calamity

Your payment in Turkish lira is in the mail. laugh:

Your concession of the point is payment enough.

But stop deluding yourself Kedi bey. Genocide recognition (at the behest of Armenians) comprises of three intertwined pillars: moral, political and legal. It is now virtually impossible to isolate individual components to achieve recognition in the form of genocide-light. Its all or nothing. So understand that when bungling around why recognition of word that has become so politically and legally loaded isn't as easily forthcoming.

[Diranakir]

Re: Medz Yeghern: Great Crime vs. Great Calamity

"Նայիրի" հայ լեզուի սրբագրիչ բառարան:

եղեռն (գոյական) Ոճիր, քրէական յանցանք * ջարդ:

yeghern (koyagan) vojir, kreyagan hantsank, chart

yeghern (noun) crime, criminal offense, massacre

http://www.nayiri.com/search?l=hy_LB&query=եղեռն

Note: to see the definition at "Nayiri" you have to type the word in (in Armenian) and hit return.

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Medz Yeghern: Great Crime vs. Great Calamity

Your concession of the point is payment enough.

But stop deluding yourself Kedi bey. Genocide recognition (at the behest of Armenians) comprises of three intertwined pillars: moral, political and legal. It is now virtually impossible to isolate individual components to achieve recognition in the form of genocide-light. Its all or nothing. So understand that when bungling around why recognition of word that has become so politically and legally loaded isn't as easily forthcoming.

Has Jos been advising the genocide deniers at the Tate Modern on how to weasel out of using the word genocide? "the wartime events of 1915 do not constitute a 'genocide' in the legal definition"

http://www.tate.org.uk/modern/exhibitions/arshilegorky/introduction.shtm

[Diranakir]

Re: Medz Yeghern: Great Crime vs. Great Calamity

BTC is very good at getting off topic and throwing pebbles at what other people say. But what does BTC say? It's very unclear.

The topic of this thread is the proper translation into English of the Armenian term "Medz Yeghern". I have heard much jingling of the cat's bell, but little sense. What does BTC propose to call the Armenian Genocide in English--if anything??? Let BTC please answer that question for all to see.