How does everyone feel about Israel?

[Federate]

Re: How does everyone feel about Israel?

Bad things were done by both the Christian and the Muslim factions, it was a deadly civil war. Israels didn't go targeting innocent civilians, they supported the Christians with weapons and troops, as Christians were fighting the same terrorist groups that often targeted Israel.

And in the context of this same civil war, Israelis knowing the Phalangists are massacring Palestinians, they armed the Christians and then let them into a refugee camp to they can carry out their massacre. It's like if the prison guards let in hitmen to go out and kill prisoners that they dislike. Not cool. Labeling one side terrorist and not the other is your own bias. Fact is and will remain that the Christians were by far the bloodiest of the warring factions and they were allied with none other than Israel.

No, it's terrorists hiding in heavily populated places, near civilians, so that when Israel attacks and kills civilians they can use it as propaganda against Israel and demonize them as "baby-killers". How else do they get their funding for weapons, missiles, and recruitments?

Yes, when two opposing forces are not equal in strength, it leads to a guerrilla war where fighting takes place sporadically in urban areas. The entire Gaza Strip and West Bank IS the battlefield. And the local population IS the belligerent. Airstrikes and such are the things that cause the most damage to civilian populations. When you throw a megaton bomb on a leader of Hamas who is leaving a crowded mosque after prayers, what do you think will happen? Israel does not calculate this? And Israel shoots itself in the foot by feeding into the Palestinian propaganda by its continuous and widely documented use of human shields. That is the most damaging I find. The funding for weapons and such is irelevant. It comes from rich ex-pats, charity and Arab nations and Iran. Israel's funding comes from Western nations. Who cares?

No, posting a video of Duke is legitimizing him as a person. And I don't understand how one can legitimize that racist, Nazi, ass_hole. It's the equivalent of quoting Mein Kampf and saying oh don't pay attention to who wrote it, just pay attention to the points he makes regarding xxxs...

You don't like him and many other people do not like him either. That does not mean that everything that comes out of his mouth is related to Nazism or the such. In the video, he is putting forth claims of Israeli and/or Zionist crimes. You can't just go around and throw labels at people calling them neo-Nazis and the such just because they posted a video from a person that has links to those organisations. Who knows? Maybe the poster does not support neo-Nazism but support his stance on the Israeli government.

Yes, and how many times have those Islamic powers oppressed us for our religion? How many times have they violated our freedom and independence? If we became Muslims than all our problems would have been solved, but I'm happy we didn't convert to that backwards religion and stayed true to our great Armenian Church and Christian identity. it's because of our church we are who we are, and I will never turn my back on it.

You missed the point. Every empire with a specific religion has tried to subjugate us and not just the Muslims and that's regardless of what we have believed in. Even the French tried to catholicise us in Cilicia and partly succeeded. The Muslims were just the LAST empire trying to force their will upon us. BTW, the Ottoman Millet system was revolutionary in the sense that for the first time in any empire, we were protected legally as a religious minority and had certain religious laws to which we could govern ourselves.

We along with other Christian minorities were massacred because we were Christian and a suitable scapegoat for the Ottoman leaders who were dealing with a crumbling empire. Just look at the Hamidian massacres. You know how some Armenians survived? They converted to Islam. If the Ottomans were unsure they would pull down your pants and if you weren't circumcised they would shoot you on the spot. The Armenian Genocide was just a highlight in the our history of oppression and massacre by Muslim powers.

This is from wikipedia but very valid points,

right Islam had nothing to do with the Genocide....

The quotes from Wikipedia all point to the Hamidian massacres and not the Armenian Genocide. They are two different events. The Sultan's and Young Turks' motivations to slaughter us were very different from one another. In fact, the Sultan, who it can be argued had a religious motivation behind his massacres, was much more lenient (ironically) to the Young Turks as history showed. By the way, Arabs were massacred during the period of the AG as well and they were Muslims. Again, religion was just a tool used to the Young Turks' advantage.

[Mos]

Re: How does everyone feel about Israel?

Israel, along with the Lebanese Christians, is directly responsible for the massacre because the camp was guarded by Israel and Ariel Sharon let the Phalangists into the camp. While Palestinians did commit a massacre against the Christians at Damour, the overwhelming massacring was being done by the Christian side (Sabra and Shatila, Black Saturday, Karantina, Tel al-Za'atar).

Bad things were done by both the Christian and the Muslim factions, it was a deadly civil war. Israels didn't go targeting innocent civilians, they supported the Christians with weapons and troops, as Christians were fighting the same terrorist groups that often targeted Israel.

I'd like to see when Palestinians have used human shields. If by human shields, you mean fighting in the streets of Palestine and bystanders being shot, that's really not using a human shield. If you mean people voluntarily standing infront of fighters, that's a choice and not forcing. It's doubtful that Palestinians forcefully use human shields simply because all the warring factions are nationalists and they all rely on popular support for their continuing existence. Israel, however, has been widely documented in their use of human shields http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_shield#Israel There's a part on the Gaza and West Bank too in that link that documents how people crowd infront of mosques and homes in order for it to not be demolished. Rabbis have done the same for Palestinians.

No, it's terrorists hiding in heavily populated places, near civilians, so that when Israel attacks and kills civilians they can use it as propaganda against Israel and demonize them as "baby-killers". How else do they get their funding for weapons, missiles, and recruitments?

You're really taking it too far and villifying users when they have said no such thing other than posting a video of David Duke talking about alleged Israeli and Zionist crimes. It's not like the video was supporting the KKK or neo-Nazis or any crap like that.

No, posting a video of Duke is legitimizing him as a person. And I don't understand how one can legitimize that racist, Nazi, ass_hole. It's the equivalent of quoting Mein Kampf and saying oh don't pay attention to who wrote it, just pay attention to the points he makes regarding xxxs...

Since the beginning of our history, Zoroastrians (Persians), Christians (Byzantines, Romans) and Pagans (Romans and everyone before them) have massacred and conquered us too. They all wanted us to convert to their own religion. Islamic empires are just the last thing because they took out all the other religions in the region.

Yes, and how many times have those Islamic powers oppressed us for our religion? How many times have they violated our freedom and independence? If we became Muslims than all our problems would have been solved, but I'm happy we didn't convert to that backwards religion and stayed true to our great Armenian Church and Christian identity. it's because of our church we are who we are, and I will never turn my back on it.

Whoa, wait. What? We weren't killed because we were Christian, we were killed because we were Armenian and we stood in the way of a Turkic empire. Religion was simply a tool used to fire up the troops during our massacres.

We along with other Christian minorities were massacred because we were Christian and a suitable scapegoat for the Ottoman leaders who were dealing with a crumbling empire. Just look at the Hamidian massacres. You know how some Armenians survived? They converted to Islam. If the Ottomans were unsure they would pull down your pants and if you weren't circumcised they would shoot you on the spot. The Armenian Genocide was just a highlight in the our history of oppression and massacre by Muslim powers.

This is from wikipedia but very valid points,

Abdul Hamid believed that the woes of the Ottoman Empire stemmed from "the endless persecutions and hostilities of the Christian world."[4] He perceived the Ottoman Armenians to be an extension of foreign hostility, a means by which Europe could "get at our most vital places and tear out our very guts."[3]

The Sultan ignored the massacres as long as they were not directed against the Muslim population.

The historian Lord Kinross claims that massacres of this kind were often achieved by gathering Muslims in a local mosque and claiming that the Armenians had the aim of "striking at Islam.

right Islam had nothing to do with the Genocide....

[Yedtarts]

Re: How does everyone feel about Israel?

You know I've lost all respect for you.

I will consider this as a badge of honor and wear it proudly.

[Federate]

Re: How does everyone feel about Israel?

The carnage in Sabra and Shatila was committed directly by the Christian groups, and happened knowingly under the Israeli noses. Of course you ignore how Christians were massacred by the Lebanese Muslim factions and how these massacres were a see-saw between the Muslim and Christian factions....The King David bombing was done by an extremist Israeli group so analogous to the Palestinian extremist groups, and I can also present you a much more longer list of all the times Palestinians have targeted and killed innocent civilians or used their own people as human shields...

Israel, along with the Lebanese Christians, is directly responsible for the massacre because the camp was guarded by Israel and Ariel Sharon let the Phalangists into the camp. While Palestinians did commit a massacre against the Christians at Damour, the overwhelming massacring was being done by the Christian side (Sabra and Shatila, Black Saturday, Karantina, Tel al-Za'atar).

I'd like to see when Palestinians have used human shields. If by human shields, you mean fighting in the streets of Palestine and bystanders being shot, that's really not using a human shield. If you mean people voluntarily standing infront of fighters, that's a choice and not forcing. It's doubtful that Palestinians forcefully use human shields simply because all the warring factions are nationalists and they all rely on popular support for their continuing existence. Israel, however, has been widely documented in their use of human shields http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_shield#Israel There's a part on the Gaza and West Bank too in that link that documents how people crowd infront of mosques and homes in order for it to not be demolished. Rabbis have done the same for Palestinians.

You know I've lost all respect for you. Supporting a bigoted neo-Nazi is just beyond my comprehension. What's next quoting Mein Kampf to show that xxxs are inferior or something? I really wouldn't be surprised. All this guy does is spread around hate and an idiotic viewpoint of the world around him. Do you also support KKK? Nazis? Holocaust? Russian skin heads? If you support this guy, the answers to those question should be obvious.

You're really taking it too far and villifying users when they have said no such thing other than posting a video of David Duke talking about alleged Israeli and Zionist crimes. It's not like the video was supporting the KKK or neo-Nazis or any crap like that.

If you wish to go identify yourself with that branch of Islam go right ahead, but remember you are abandoning Armenia in the process who has suffered a great deal because of Islamic extremism.

Since the beginning of our history, Zoroastrians (Persians), Christians (Byzantines, Romans) and Pagans (Romans and everyone before them) have massacred and conquered us too. They all wanted us to convert to their own religion. Islamic empires are just the last thing because they took out all the other religions in the region.

From the adoption of Christianity, Islamic powers have tried to subjugate us, conquer us, from the Arabs to the Persians, and eventually during the Genocide where because of our religion the Ottoman Muslims massacred 1.5 million of our own people, and all the way up to Karabakh war where Afghan and Chechen Islamic groups supported Azeris.

Whoa, wait. What? We weren't killed because we were Christian, we were killed because we were Armenian and we stood in the way of a Turkic empire. Religion was simply a tool used to fire up the troops during our massacres.

[Mos]

Re: How does everyone feel about Israel?

The worst thing about the Armenians who want to "discuss Israel" as some sort of "Armenian topic" is that they are almost all just your average holocaust denier idiots who have absolutely no interest in real Armenian topics.

There is a reason the word jew is auto-corrected to xxx here. All discussions with that word or revolving Israel almost immediately follow Godwin's law and once a discussion has a mention of Hitler, you might as well just delete the thread already.

Or when people start bring up neo-Nazis and white supremacists as legitimate sources....

[Joseph]

Re: How does everyone feel about Israel?

The worst thing about the Armenians who want to "discuss Israel" as some sort of "Armenian topic" is that they are almost all just your average holocaust denier idiots who have absolutely no interest in real Armenian topics.

There is a reason the word jew is auto-corrected to xxx here. All discussions with that word or revolving Israel almost immediately follow Godwin's law and once a discussion has a mention of Hitler, you might as well just delete the thread already.

I agree

[Sip]

Re: How does everyone feel about Israel?

The worst thing about the Armenians who want to "discuss Israel" as some sort of "Armenian topic" is that they are almost all just your average holocaust denier idiots who have absolutely no interest in real Armenian topics.

There is a reason the word jew is auto-corrected to xxx here. All discussions with that word or revolving Israel almost immediately follow Godwin's law and once a discussion has a mention of Hitler, you might as well just delete the thread already.

[Joseph]

Re: How does everyone feel about Israel?

Mos, I agree with you.

I don't support Israel but most of these comments are downright spiteful.

[Mos]

Re: How does everyone feel about Israel?

Azar seems to sympathise with Duke's neo-Nazi beliefs. Ahmadinejad frequently calls the Holocaust into question similar to those disgusting Turks who conceive propaganda about the Armenian Genocide. And he treats any one from Israel as an "evil Zionist".

[KanadaHye]

Re: How does everyone feel about Israel?

So Azar you support Hitler as well? You support Ku Klux Klan? Ahmadinejad would be proud of your neo-Nazi and anti-Semitic support...

Where do you get this stuff? How is Ahmadinejad anti-Semitic or a neo-Nazi? He's not oppressing the J3wish population in Iran from practicing their culture or religion.