Current Condition of Armenia

[levon]

Re: Current Condition of Armenia

Mos, you're not providing proof, just claiming things. Either prove your points, or quit posting crap.

You really should read more carefully, and please don't delve into insulting my intelligence here, very childish. My views are from experiences I've heard about many people, my first hand experiences in Armenia with people, the news that I read about some of those conditions. What are you saying? That Armenia is in great shape, that everything is going well, and that nothing can be improved?

If you back your points with proof we wouldn't be in this situation. Secondly, I claim that whining leads to nowhere, whereas hard work always leads somewhere.

You really should watch it who you are talking about here.

You are in no position to threaten me, so don't.

My uncle owns his own businesses in yerevan, he started out from nothing (celling cigarettes on the street), and over the years he has become rather successful with his stores, but know the government comes and indiscriminately closes his shops, wants over the top taxes and bribes from him, and have greatly hampered his progress. What should he do stay silent about this? No he tells about this, but despite this he goes on with his business and tries his best to work around it.

You're linking the problems of a businessman with those of the general population, and still want me not to insult your intelligence?

People will complain when they are in a dire situation, they have a right to. What should they just keep the mouths shut, and pretend everything is okay? Your point is truly laughable. And oh, do people not in the west, not complain when they are in dire situation? Just stop bring West vs. East into this, it has nothing to do with what I am talking about, and really watch what you are saying as it's apparent you know very little about armenia.

True, people complain when their situation is not ideal; however, complaining gets them nowhere. Those who are smart find ways around their difficulties, while the ones who complain hold their palms up and expect help.

[Tali]

Re: Current Condition of Armenia

Yes, there are two sides, people who whine and do nothing, and people who strive to do things. It's not a way of looking at things, but the actual situation.

Levon, you are not right. He is not right. You are not wrong. He is not wrong. How? Because humanity is not a black-and-white argument. You both are affiliated to different people. They both are experiencing different problems. They are happening at the SAME time. Therefore, the "actual situation" is BOTH. Not yours vs not his.

Did you even read my post, because I don't think you understood what I wrote?

Yes, I read every word. I could almost hear you punching the keys on your keyboard out of the frustration you're feeling.

Read again, I said giving money doesn't help the situation, it's better to give jobs than money.

Levon, when you get a job, how do you expect to be compensated for your work? Money. Are you familiar with how to run a business? I co-own one here in California. Money is a major factor. Without it, we can't hire people b/c we wouldn't be able to pay them. Money is versatile, can be used to buy various things. They're related to each other. You also can't have money without a means of assessing value. Otherwise, it's just paper or metal.

I'm not sure what it is you want to discuss. Here is my suggestion. Work your a$$ off for the next 20 years, become a CEO or a senior executive an a big company, then persuade them to open offices in Armenia. Without power discussion is mental masturbation, as it leads no further than the discussion.

If that's your suggestion, fine. You have made it. You feel nothing else could be done. so really, you have no further reason to keep picking fights with everyone in this thread - much less continue conversing in this thread. if you want to "flame" other uers, feel free to: there is a separate forum for that. thank you.

[Tali]

Re: Current Condition of Armenia

If you have the chance, you should learn the Eastern dialect instead. It will be more useful for you trip, and if you ever decide to move to Armenia. Regardless, if you have decent or good command of western, you'll get by in Armenia much better than if you didn't know any dialect of Armenian. The thing that trips up Western dialect speakers the most is the use of Russian words. But if you are in Armenia long enough you will surely pick up on that jargon.

Armanen, i'm learning western armenian currently because my boyfriend's armenian. his family speaks western. after learning that i may branch into eastern as well. i myself am not armenian. i appreciate your advice it's been very helpful

[levon]

Re: Current Condition of Armenia

Because humanity is not a black-and-white argument.

Awesome, we have another liberal claiming everyone's right because no one's wrong.

Yes, I read every word. I could almost hear you punching the keys on your keyboard out of the frustration you're feeling.

You must be hearing someone else, as I'm not frustrated.

Levon, when you get a job, how do you expect to be compensated for your work? Money. Are you familiar with how to run a business?

Wow, way to misquote my statement. If you are able to comprehend English, how is it that you cannot comprehend the difference between giving money for nothing and a job?

I co-own one here in California. Money is a major factor. Without it, we can't hire people b/c we wouldn't be able to pay them. Money is versatile, can be used to buy various things. They're related to each other. You also can't have money without a means of assessing value. Otherwise, it's just paper or metal.

Damn, you learned that in economics 101? I never thought that money was used like that. I just thought money was to make me look cool at the strip club when I'm making it rain.

If that's your suggestion, fine. You have made it. You feel nothing else could be done. so really, you have no further reason to keep picking fights with everyone in this thread - much less continue conversing in this thread.

Ok

if you want to "flame" other uers, feel free to: there is a separate forum for that. thank you.

damn.

[Armanen]

Re: Current Condition of Armenia

Armanen, i'm learning western armenian currently because my boyfriend's armenian. his family speaks western. after learning that i may branch into eastern as well. i myself am not armenian. i appreciate your advice it's been very helpful

Ah that makes sense. Well that's great that you are willing to really immearse yourself in your bf's ethnic culture. If I may ask, what is your ethnic background?

[Mos]

Re: Current Condition of Armenia

Mos, you're not providing proof, just claiming things. Either prove your points, or quit posting crap.

How is the testimonies of people facing those very problems not proof? Are they just all making up things? You think they want to leave their homeland just like that?

What's you definition of proof anyways? Interview with Serzh?

If you back your points with proof we wouldn't be in this situation. Secondly, I claim that whining leads to nowhere, whereas hard work always leads somewhere.

I can show you statistics of migration and economy indicators of Armenia, they all will support what I'm saying. But numbers don't tell the whole picture, and the personal experiences of everyday people is very important.

You have to really differentiate between whining and legitimate complaints about your condition. Many of these people do work hard, and try their best to get by, and despite that are still faltering, not because they are lazy, but because they are affected by both corruption and also regressive economic policies.

You are in no position to threaten me, so don't.

I'm not threatening you.

You're linking the problems of a businessman with those of the general population, and still want me not to insult your intelligence?

I bringing a very legitimate example. Never did I say that because my uncle is in such a situation, that the whole population is in the same. It's called again bringing up an example, people often do that.

True, people complain when their situation is not ideal; however, complaining gets them nowhere. Those who are smart find ways around their difficulties, while the ones who complain hold their palms up and expect help.

You can complain legitimately about government policies and corruption that help bring you into such a sorry state. You can use that complaint to demand reform, lessen corruption, and make the government more responsive to its people's needs. This complaint by people should go into the air, but should be used to demand much needed economic reform. I'm not saying people should just sit on their hands and complain all day, but suggesting reform and demanding it can change things and bring about better conditions for the people.

Many important changes and reforms in our world history have come as a result of the people at the bottom noticing a problem, and demanding a change that improved the country and the conditions of its people.

[Armanen]

Re: Current Condition of Armenia

It sounds like to me that many of those hookers, if not all, have very lax morals, otherwise they would not sell themselves. The absolute worst part of the article, if in fact they are true, is that parents would send their teenage daughters to engage in prostitution.

[Mos]

Re: Current Condition of Armenia

It sounds like to me that many of those hookers, if not all, have very lax morals, otherwise they would not sell themselves. The absolute worst part of the article, if in fact they are true, is that parents would send their teenage daughters to engage in prostitution.

It's truly disgusting, and yes they have no morals. But still the fact that it has become so prevalent is troubling and an indication the lengths people are willing to go, just to get by. But remember some of these women are told that they will have good jobs in these countries, but are then brought and forced into prostitution.

[Armanen]

Re: Current Condition of Armenia

It's truly disgusting, and yes they have no morals. But still the fact that it has become so prevalent is troubling and an indication the lengths people are willing to go, just to get by. But remember some of these women are told that they will have good jobs in these countries, but are then brought and forced into prostitution.

I am referring to the ones who do it willingly or who allow their girls to engage in prostitution at home or abroad. When things are bad or at their worst one has the opportunity to see what he and others around him are made of, what their limits both physically and (more importantly) spiritually are as human beings. It's a very poor reflection as these women, and the families that raised them, but also of large segments of Armenian society that tolerates this, not to mention the government.

Regardless, I stand by the notion that Armenia is, overall, on the right path, and I believe things will get better. Serj has been cleaning house, slowly but surely, and Moscow is exerting its large influence on offical Yerevan to get its house in order. Keep your eyes peeled for large scale reforms coming both in operations of the government, and personal changes in the not so distant future.

[levon]

Re: Current Condition of Armenia

How is the testimonies of people facing those very problems not proof? Are they just all making up things? You think they want to leave their homeland just like that?
What's you definition of proof anyways? Interview with Serzh?

A proof would be a study that provides a non-subjective evaluation of the situation. People's testimonies are often biased, and bias can have no part in a proof.

I can show you statistics of migration and economy indicators of Armenia, they all will support what I'm saying. But numbers don't tell the whole picture, and the personal experiences of everyday people is very important.

Show me the numbers and explain how it's a <quote>big problem</quote>

You have to really differentiate between whining and legitimate complaints about your condition. Many of these people do work hard, and try their best to get by, and despite that are still faltering, not because they are lazy, but because they are affected by both corruption and also regressive economic policies.

Provide me proof of the bolded part.

I'm not threatening you.

In that case you should choose your wording differently. Here is what you wrote

You really should watch it who you are talking about here.

I bringing a very legitimate example. Never did I say that because my uncle is in such a situation, that the whole population is in the same. It's called again bringing up an example, people often do that.

Again, a legitimate example cannot be used as a precedent for the whole population. By bringing one example you attempt to establish the credibility of your previous claims. That's what I'm criticizing.

I'm not saying people should just sit on their hands and complain all day, but suggesting reform and demanding it can change things and bring about better conditions for the people.

Ok, but demanding usually never works.

Many important changes and reforms in our world history have come as a result of the people at the bottom noticing a problem, and demanding a change that improved the country and the conditions of its people.

No, many times in history wealthy people used the poor and the bottom feeders to do their political bidding.