Current Condition of Armenia

[Armanen]

Re: Current Condition of Armenia

I think there is a misunderstanding. When I say revolution, I don't mean people waving around pitchforks and burning stuff down. I simply mean a political change that is outside traditional method (outside of elections). This is necessary because , with the current system, any change will first have to go through the approval of a certain group of people (the ruling administration and the oligarchs), meaning that there is no political change at all. I call it a revolution because 1. it would be a big deal and 2. It would in all likelihood not be a very long process.

I am clear on the fact that this is not a game. But real change can only happen in this way.

@Armanen: Nobody calls it the "American War of Indepence." It is reffered to as the "Revolutionary War." Again, not argueing about this. I don't lnow why you put Armenian in quotes when referring to me. I'm pretty sure you don't doubt my heritage. You probably mean that the mentality I advocate for is not the one that you agree with. This does not change the fact that I am Armenian.

I can't help it that you are OK with a sub-standard quality of life in Armenia. You think you are doing your country a service by showering it with compliments. But your not. You are placing limitations on Armenia. That is what you are implying when siding with the current government and oligarchy. You're wrong. Armenia can be a great nation. It can have net immigration instead of net emmigration. It can be promising to investors. It can provide the same standard of life as the West. But it will only achieve those things with rule of law. The oligarchy and ruling family has special status in Armenia. The hundreds of businesses in Yerevan are owned by a handful of people. This is simply uncompetitive.

Compare the various revolutions in modern history with the American one. You will see a stark difference. One was about breaking away from the colonial masters, similar to what the Latin Americans did 40 years later. Others were about tearing down the entire order of society and replacing it with something new. That is a revolution.

Your negativity toward Armenia and shortsightedness are detrimental to Armenia. How do you know how long a revolution in Armenia would last? Who would come to power? What guarantee do we have that the new power elite would be patriotic and not the same sh*t? How do you know Armenia's enemies will not attack during the revolution? What about the innocent lives that will likely be lost? But it is easy to sit in America and make grand declarations about this and that.

If you really want to see a concentration of capital and business in few hands look no further than the media/entertainment/telecommunication industry in the US. Four companies run the show, and they collude on a regular basis. Or how about the big banks? Citi, BoA, Chase, and Goldman Sachs. Oligarchies exist in all societies, it is just that the US, thanks to its geography has been able to amass great amounts of wealth, so that the scraps falling off the edge of the proverbial table are more than enough to keep the sheeple content with their lives. After all, OWS started because Americans realized they couldn't find a job to pay for their two cars, big screen TV, and air conditioning.

[Eddo211]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

It would go over your head. As we found out, you are not capable of rational political analysis, much less the lesser known art of psychological operations.

As for hatred of anything not Russian, do you have any proof or have you been high in the sky with too little oxygen lately?

I am actually not flying today but I don't need to experience hypoxia or even an explosive decompression to see how pro Russian you are and how protective you get on slightest comment on Russia. As for me, I don't care anything else but Armenia and I don't trust Russia, USA, France, or any other country (I do have trust in Iran though).

On the other hand, your Russophobia is a reason why Russians do not trust Armenians more.

See this is what I am talking about, I am not anti-Russian as you seem to think, why would I be, because I live in USA?.....do I trust Russia to do the best for Armenia? no. I only trust Armenians.

I say again, we must learn from our history that we cannot trust any nation when it comes to Armenia and its future. Wouldn't you agree or you rather trust another nation blindly.

btw, I think it is pointless to explain anything to Davidogalu......he is has emense life experience and he is very intelligent so its ok for him as a new member to waltz in here and disrespect senior posters.
He is right about one thing though, we don't call them Oligarch here, they are known as aristocrats, lol

[davidoga]

Re: Current Condition of Armenia

Compare the various revolutions in modern history with the American one. You will see a stark difference. One was about breaking away from the colonial masters, similar to what the Latin Americans did 40 years later. Others were about tearing down the entire order of society and replacing it with something new. That is a revolution.

Your negativity toward Armenia and shortsightedness are detrimental to Armenia. How do you know how long a revolution in Armenia would last? Who would come to power? What guarantee do we have that the new power elite would be patriotic and not the same sh*t? How do you know Armenia's enemies will not attack during the revolution? What about the innocent lives that will likely be lost? But it is easy to sit in America and make grand declarations about this and that.

If you really want to see a concentration of capital and business in few hands look no further than the media/entertainment/telecommunication industry in the US. Four companies run the show, and they collude on a regular basis. Or how about the big banks? Citi, BoA, Chase, and Goldman Sachs. Oligarchies exist in all societies, it is just that the US, thanks to its geography has been able to amass great amounts of wealth, so that the scraps falling off the edge of the proverbial table are more than enough to keep the sheeple content with their lives. After all, OWS started because Americans realized they couldn't find a job to pay for their two cars, big screen TV, and air conditioning.

I have already ascertained that a revolution should not a be a violent one. Not surprised that you didn't catch that though. You probably only pay attention to about 10% of what I'm saying and then infer the rest.

I can't answer all those questions. I don't have any details planned out. I do know that a leader would be more nationalistic and interested in rebulding Greater Armenia than the current one. Now before you make a remark about how I do not understand politics and that making territorial claims is a big deal that could further isolate Armenia, understand that I do not intend to be said leader. The leader will know how to make such claims properly. And he will also establish rule of law.

On the contrary, you are being negative towards Armenia. You are disregarding the fact that an overwhelming majority of Armenia's residents are unhappy with their lives. You are like Kim Jong Il, pretending that his country is a paradise. You are confusing patriotism with disillusionism. Think of my criticism as the relationship between a coach and his team. The team my win the national championship, but does that mean that the coach will relax and stop doling out criticism? No. (Note: I don't mean to assert any authority or seniority over Armenia with this analogy.)

You clearly understand nothing of economics. Yes, when 40% of the market is controlled by 4 companies, you have an oligarchy. In that industry. This is different than Armenia, where the oligarchy controls all of Armenia's economy.

And don't try to criticize me because of my location. Judging by your English, you have also spent a great time in America (or UK).

[davidoga]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

btw, I think it is pointless to explain anything to Davidogalu......he is has emense life experience and he is very intelligent so its ok for him as a new member to waltz in here and disrespect senior posters.
He is right about one thing though, we don't call them Oligarch here, they are known as aristocrats, lol

I aplogize for disrespecting senior posters. But I reserve that right when somone questions my heritage and my loyalties. "Senior poster" - the only thing that means is that you stumpled upon this site before I did. Congratulations.

Armenia, at the very least, owes Russia its respect. Countless times, Russia has saved Armenia from the wrath of Turks. Say what you will about Russia, but if it weren't from them, our country would be mere historical concept. Learn a little bit about history.

Am I now davidoganov?

And you have the nerve to tell me about respect.

[Armanen]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

I am actually not flying today but I don't need to experience hypoxia or even an explosive decompression to see how pro Russian you are and how protective you get on slightest comment on Russia. As for me, I don't care anything else but Armenia and I don't trust Russia, USA, France, or any other country (I do have trust in Iran though).

See this is what I am talking about, I am not anti-Russian as you seem to think, why would I be, because I live in USA?.....do I trust Russia to do the best for Armenia? no. I only trust Armenians.

I say again, we must learn from our history that we cannot trust any nation when it comes to Armenia and its future. Wouldn't you agree or you rather trust another nation blindly.

If you are bringing up the concept of friendship in international affairs I can tell you that does not exist. There are no friends only interests. As long as Armenia's existence is in Russia's interests they will remain close to us. And for the foreseeable future, unless the Kremlin wishes to lose the Caucasus (north and south), then they need Armenia as a sledgehammer against pan-turkism, Islamism, and even against the Iranians if the need were to arise. So while we are important to them we ought to convince there leadership to do more for Armenia or at the very least not prevent Armenia from becoming stronger. This is a pan-national effort. So no, I do not blindly trust anyone, including Armenians, because I can see how politically immature many of them can be.

btw, I think it is pointless to explain anything to Davidogalu......he is has emense life experience and he is very intelligent so its ok for him as a new member to waltz in here and disrespect senior posters.
He is right about one thing though, we don't call them Oligarch here, they are known as aristocrats, lol

Agreed.

[Mos]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

A lot of people seemingly expect Armenia to change into the Switzerland of the Caucasus in one night. Given our circumstances (closed borders, large war in early 90s) we are doing rather well. Just look at how the IT sectors is slowly booming. Armenia was the silicon valley of Soviet Union, and our number 1 resource right now is our people. I think people have to high expectations of what can be done when you have been in a situation like Armenia has been in past 20 years. Some of it also comes from political propaganda aimed against ruling party via Levon's people or other parties in opposition (e.g. Dashnaks). Our main and most trusting friends are the Russians and Iranians. And over the years this fact has been confirmed to me more and more through different experiences. We don't need to hate the West per se, but we should keep our distance and be careful in our relations with them. I'm more willing to have closer relations with EU than NATO/US for example.

[Mos]

Re: Current Condition of Armenia

this revolution talk crap is feeding off poor people's frustrations. 2008 march 1's events shows us that the unthinkable could indeed happen. The euro wussies/the juice/turks hope to destroy Armenia from within.

Levon said in BBC interview about giving Karabakh back. His agenda is just so clear. Unfortunate so many people can be blind.

[davidoga]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

A lot of people seemingly expect Armenia to change into the Switzerland of the Caucasus in one night. Given our circumstances (closed borders, large war in early 90s) we are doing rather well. Just look at how the IT sectors is slowly booming. Armenia was the silicon valley of Soviet Union, and our number 1 resource right now is our people. I think people have to high expectations of what can be done when you have been in a situation like Armenia has been in past 20 years. Some of it also comes from political propaganda aimed against ruling party via Levon's people or other parties in opposition (e.g. Dashnaks). Our main and most trusting friends are the Russians and Iranians. And over the years this fact has been confirmed to me more and more through different experiences. We don't need to hate the West per se, but we should keep our distance and be careful in our relations with them. I'm more willing to have closer relations with EU than NATO/US for example.

You're absolutelr right Mos. I never meant to belittle Armenia's accomplishments. Like I said, I don't have anything figured out, and I said nothing about overnight. I am simply trying to say that sticking with the current administration is not the best course of action.

[Mos]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

You're absolutelr right Mos. I never meant to belittle Armenia's accomplishments. Like I said, I don't have anything figured out, and I said nothing about overnight. I am simply trying to say that sticking with the current administration is not the best course of action.

You have a better alternative? The only alternative I see is Levon and he'd destroy Armenia in one night. The current administration is doing rather well given the circumstances and they have done many things right. If you want to talk about corruption, try giving a police a bribe these days, very hard to do.

[Eddo211]

Re: Nagorno-Karabagh: Military Balance Between Armenia & Azerbaijan

If you are bringing up the concept of friendship in international affairs I can tell you that does not exist. There are no friends only interests. As long as Armenia's existence is in Russia's interests they will remain close to us. And for the foreseeable future, unless the Kremlin wishes to lose the Caucasus (north and south), then they need Armenia as a sledgehammer against pan-turkism, Islamism, and even against the Iranians if the need were to arise. So while we are important to them we ought to convince there leadership to do more for Armenia or at the very least not prevent Armenia from becoming stronger. This is a pan-national effort. So no, I do not blindly trust anyone, including Armenians, because I can see how politically immature many of them can be.

We are on the same page then.....the bold part is our major playing card and I hope Armenian leadership uses it to its full advantage because in all reality they need us almost as much as we need them. (for them it would be a disaster, for us our survival).

btw, I rather get backstabbed by Armenians then others....as strange as that may sound.