Armenian Stone Henge Story - CNN

[KanadaHye]

Re: Armenian Stone Henge Story - CNN

Do you think geographical regions move about on a human timescale?

So why are you calling it Syria? Were you around 12000 years ago (or perhaps you consider yourself some sort of feline god)? Anyways, like you said, it hasn't been carbon dated (which is hardly accurate anyways in terms of a humans lifetime) but it does give a general time as to when these ruins were built.

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Armenian Stone Henge Story - CNN

So 12000 years ago, you're sure that the region was called Syria.

Do you think geographical regions move about on a human timescale?

[KanadaHye]

Re: Armenian Stone Henge Story - CNN

Mukuch is taking an a-la-Turka approach to geography.

I'm not talking about the modern country of Syria that has been in existence for less than a century - why would we use modern borders to understand a 12000 year old site? I am talking about the geographical region that is called Syria. Urfa is in Northern Syria.

So 12000 years ago, you're sure that the region was called Syria. If you take a look at the holes that were drilled in stone at the Stone Henge site in (modern day Armenia) there are similar rocks with holes drilled into them at the Hattusa site near Ankara (the fake capital of Turkey since Istanbul is really the capital)

Take a look at the drilled holes from 2:30-3:00

Some more video of Hattusha: the Hittite Capital

By your ideology shouldn't you be saying "don't forget the ones in Historical Britain"? Canada was once part of the British Empire, Ireland was once part of Britain. If you are strictly following your own ideology, it isn't important that Newgrange was built by people long before anyone who could reasonably be called "British" (or Irish) existed.

It still is part of the British Empire, the people are just in denial. Assuming you weren't born via immaculate conception, your ancestors came from somewhere. They might have not been referred to as British or Irish but they were people who eventually formed to create Britain or Ireland.

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Armenian Stone Henge Story - CNN

Don't forget the one in Canada (and Ireland)!

By your ideology shouldn't you be saying "don't forget the ones in Historical Britain"? Canada was once part of the British Empire, Ireland was once part of Britain. If you are strictly following your own ideology, it isn't important that Newgrange was built by people long before anyone who could reasonably be called "British" (or Irish) existed.

[bell-the-cat]

Re: Armenian Stone Henge Story - CNN

Everything I've seen says 6 miles from Urfa and not in Urfa. I don't know 6 miles in what direction or where the borders are... that's why I said expressing an opinion on this wouldn't be an informed one. Besides, even if it's outside the border, it doesn't mean it wasn't built by the nearest country there because it was an ideal location for it. You can't move the mountain within your borders then build something there. It just seems like there's no reliable physical evidence yet from the site itself as to what the place was, what it was used for, and who built it.

Anyone have a more precise location for it?

I'm not talking about the modern country of Syria that has been in existence for less than a century - why would we use modern political borders to understand a 12000 year old site? I am talking about the geographical region that is called Syria - I said that in my first post: geographically, Urfa is in Northern Syria.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Armenian Stone Henge Story - CNN

Whilst Hittite, much like present day Armenia had Caucasian/Balkan cultural/ethnic aspects. Hittite was significantly different from other Indo-European languages and is Centum. So Hittite had closer ties to Greek and the other western languages. Than Armenian which is regarded as an outlier in the Satem group.

The Hurrians a some point aquired a IE elite and many researches suspect that the Urarto-Hurrians had very distant PIE links.

I have a question about. Your sentence structure. Why, do you write. Like this?

The Armenians according to Diakonoff, are then an amalgam of the Hurrians (and Urartians), Luvians and the Mushki. After arriving in its historical territory, Proto-Armenian would appear to have undergone massive influence on part the languages it eventually replaced. Armenian phonology, for instance, appears to have been greatly affected by Urartian, which may suggest a long period of bilingualism.”

Greppin (1991) identifies 16 possible Old Armenian words with a Hurro-Urartian etymology: agarak "field" from Hurrian awari "field"; astem "to reveal one's ancestry" ad Hurrian asti "woman, wife"; art "field" ad Hurrian arde "town"; xnjor "apple" from Hurrian hinz-ore "apple"; kut "grain" from Hurrian kade "barley" (rejected by Diakonoff); maxr "pine" from Hurrian mahir "fir, juniper"; salor "plum" ad Akkadian salluru "plum", suspected of being of Hurrian origin; tarma-jur "spring water" from Hurrian tarmani "source"; arciw "eagle" from Urartian Arsiba, a proper name with a presumed meaning of "eagle"; xarxaler "to destroy" from Urartian harhar-s- "to destroy"; sar "tree" from Urartian sare "garden"; cov "sea" from Urartian sue "sea"; ult "camel from Urartian ultu "camel"; pelem "dig, excavate" from Urartian pile "canal" (rejected by Diakonoff); san "kettle" from Urartian sane "kettle, pot"; sur "sword", from Urartian sure "sword" (considered doubtful by Diakonoff).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Armenian_language

There a better assessment of Diakonoff's work can be found here:
The Pre-history of the Armenian People
http://rbedrosian.com/Classic/diakph10.htm

[retro]

Re: Armenian Stone Henge Story - CNN

"The Hurri-Mitanni kingdom of Armenia kept close contact with its western neighbor, Hittite or Hatti land. Masses of population were often transplanted from one country to the other."

Whilst Hittite, much like present day Armenia had Caucasian/Balkan cultural/ethnic aspects. Hittite was significantly different from other Indo-European languages and is Centum. So Hittite had closer ties to Greek and the other western languages. Than Armenian which is regarded as an outlier in the Satem group.

The Hurrians a some point aquired a IE elite and many researches suspect that the Urarto-Hurrians had very distant PIE links.

A common ancestor of Indo-European and Hurrian

There is an interesting monograph by Fournet & Bomhard on the Indo-European Elements in Hurrian (pdf). I will leave the linguistic details to the experts, as I doubt that many people are competent in both Proto-Indo-European and Hurrian to assess the authors' thesis. However, this is the bit that captured my attention:

Hurrian cannot be considered an Indo-European language — this is so obvious that it barely needs to be stated. Traditional Indo-European languages, such as Sanskrit, Greek, Latin, Gothic, Old Irish, Old Church Slavic, Tocharian, etc., are clearly related to each other through many common features and shared innovations that are lacking in Hurrian.

However, that is not the end of the argument. In the preceding chapters, we presented evidence that Hurrian and Proto-Indo-European “[bear] a stronger affinity, both in the roots of verbs and in the forms of grammar, than could have been produced by accident; so strong that no philologer could examine [them] without believing them to have sprung from some common source.” In this chapter, we will discuss our views on what that common source may have been like. In so doing, we will have to delve deeply into prehistory, well beyond the horizon of what is traditionally reconstructed for Proto-Indo-European in the traditional handbooks.

...

Our discussion now comes to an end. In the course of this book, we have attempted to show, through a careful analysis of the relevant phonological, morphological, and lexical data, that Urarto-Hurrian and Indo-European are, in fact, genetically related at a very deep level, as we indicated at the beginning of this chapter by quoting from the famous Third Anniversary Discourse (1786) of Sir William Jones. We propose that both are descended from a common ancestor, which may be called “Proto-Asianic”, to revive an old, but not forgotten, term.

On the basis of genetic data I have recently proposed an origin of the Indo-Aryans in the Transcaucasus, based on their possession of a genetic component related to that of modern Northeast Caucasian speakers and the putative relationship of the latter with the Hurro-Urartian group. If the Hurrian-Indo-European "Proto-Asianic" hypothesis is true, then it would strengthen that hypothesis as it would place the Proto-Indo-Europeans in the vicinity of the Hurrians.

http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2011/02...opean-and.html

[Siggie]

Re: Armenian Stone Henge Story - CNN

Anyone can learn to read/write a language. Just because people on the internet can communicate in Armenian doesn't mean they have good intentions towards the people of Armenia. Again, this is not a reference to you. Why is it that you take everything I write personally when I have repeatedly stated that I'm not arguing with you!!!!

Because you quote me and then say them? How else could I take your last post.
You know that particular accusation bothers me... I'm like 95% sure you've been in the chat when I've talked about that.

[Armanen]

Re: Armenian Stone Henge Story - CNN

Thank you. I've contacted the Smithsonian Magazine about this (stmarytoronto.com) website.
I don't know what aspect of it their lawyers will find the most offensive and actionable: the use of copyrighted text and photographs, or the altering of the original text to display bigoted ideology.

Further proof bell is anti-Armenian. Maybe the Armenian FM should be contacted, and you can be placed on the black list i.e. persona non grata. This way you can pander to the turkish government all you want.

[Armanen]

Re: Armenian Stone Henge Story - CNN

Please stop posting ridiculous statements. If you want to pollute the internet with Bell in the Hat stories, go to a Turkish forum.

+10. I wish he would heed the advice.