Women and Society

[Pedro Xaramillo]

Re: Women and Society

On the subject...Armenia doesn't define marital rape entirely as rape, in fact, it doesn't have legal represenation :


Women's Support Center
Sponsored by USAID, the Tufenkian Foundation, and the Armenian International Woman’s Association (AIWA)

Introduction
During the past 10 years, ZangakatunSocial Services NGO has worked with over 900 Armenian families, helping them overcome extreme poverty and return to functional and productive lives. With partnership support from USAID, AIWA, and the Tufenkian Foundation, the program has now expanded to assist victims of domestic violence in Yerevan’s Shengavit district.(Encouraged by this program, the French-Armenian Development Fund has also lent its support to the effort.)

According to a recent survey, 27% of Armenia’s women have experienced some form of domestic abuse, usually at the hands of their husbands.(Amnesty International Publications 2008) These include physical as well as psychological trauma, e.g. imprisonment at home by their husbands, not being allowed to have social contact with friends or family members, etc. One such woman has stated, “Happiness for me means not being beaten and blood not gushing from my nose.” (Anonymous woman from ‘Armenia’s silent victims’ publication) Last year, among Zangakatun’s 209 beneficiary families, 122 disclosed some kind of physical, sexual, or psychological abuse. These cases reveal suffering and dysfunction among all members of the family, and in most cases, the violence is also reflected in the behavior of their offspring.

Program
The new pilot program works with the entire family: The abused wife, the abusive husband, and the children affected by this violence. In treating and preventing domestic violence, the program establishes support services for victimized women in three ways:
1) organizing women’s self-help groups that build self-esteem and empowerment;
2) establishing peer groups to stimulate women to overcome stigmas and stereotypes found in Armenian society;
3) targeting the abusive husbands by helping them change their violent attitudes towards women and educating them on women’s rights.

At the community level, a network of local NGOs has been formed to work against gender-based violence. The NGOs will utilize and involve municipal social workers, police departments, and medical groups, also coordinating activities with educational and employment centers.

The overall goal is to develop community activism so that citizens are informed of their rights and options. In particular, the program promotes telephone ‘hotlines’ where women can call anonymously to report abuse or seek counseling. Through training and roundtable discussions, we seek to change the prevailing mentalities towards domestic violence in Armenian society. Such mentalities often include the following:

Rape victims are often seen as the guilty party
Women must consent to sexual relations with her husband at his bidding
Public discussion of domestic violence is frowned upon and considered to be an effort to destroy the family
Rape and sexual violence remain taboos
Marital rape is not explicitly defined as a crime under Armenian law or legislation
45% of men disagree that a wife may justifiably refuse sexual relations with her husband – in case of tiredness, sexually transmitted disease by husband, etc.
64% of women are subjected to sexual harassment in the workplace.(Amnesty International Publications 2008)

True stories from our center
Irina* – 36 years old, 7 children
Irina’s husband – unemployed, alcoholic – wants her to bear more children so the government pays them additional benefits (the main form of income for the family). During the initial visit by our social workers, the children were seen hiding under the bed, terrorized by the violence they had witnessed. We were told that the children once saved their mother from being stabbed by their father. Irina, through our program, has been placed in an abused women’s shelter and is kept hidden from her husband. The children are in temporary foster care. Irina is proceeding with a divorce while we look to move her and the children to an undisclosed location.

Lusine* – 33 years old, 3 children
Lusine and her children are systematically abused by their violent husband/father who is suffering from unfounded jealousy. The children constantly live in fear and are extremely traumatized. We were told that at night, the children tie their legs to their mother to make sure that she will not leave them alone with their father. Lusine is seeing the center’s psychologist and social worker. We are also trying to work with Lusine’s husband; however, he has shown resistance to counseling.

[Mos]

Re: Women and Society

You entirely miss the point of feminism. The goal was never promiscuity, in fact many feminists are against promiscuity, stripping and prostitution, as they would argue that it further objectifies women as sexual objects subservient to men.
The point of feminism is to provide women equal rights, equal opportunity and equal employment, this is not at all "destructive to society" nor the reason why marriages fail.

In the past there has been such acts of cheating, prostitution and so on well before feminism or the sexual revolution, it has simply just not been as well publicized.

Bottom line a woman thinks and feels, just as men do, therefore it is not the right of the government, nor men, to tell an individual what their rights are or aren't, particularly when those rights (or lack thereof) are based on having a vagina.

I'm not saying that promiscuity is their goal. Their goal is the demolishing of the traditional gender roles in society, which along with can have rather negative consequences, especially for a family oriented culture like ours. Instead of women being encouraged to reject the family model and instead compete with men in every sector, they should be encouraged to remain within the family structure, to be modest, and a strong wife and mother. Another crucial thing that is broken by the feminists is virginity not being a requirement for women at marriage, which in our culture is highly looked down upon.

In my view, promiscuous dressing and behaviour objectifies women much more and with that respect towards them shrinks. If women are modest in their looks, dress, and behaviour attention can be shifted to person as a person not an object.

[Pedro Xaramillo]

Re: Women and Society

Hmm, but what of double standards? I mean why is it that a woman SHOULD be a virgin when marrying, but a man doesn't need to be, technically, according to the bible and the church, sex should only be in the confines of a marriage, while I'm not religious, I would assume this is the reason for the majority of Armenians, due to Armenia historically being a Chrstian state.

Gender roles have not always existed as they are now, the current method of the family unit is one that comes due to the economic system in play. It was not uncommon in Medieval Armenia for women to work fields, make textiles, etc. which also engenders working and labour. The present economic system dictated that women are to remain in the household cooking and cleaning. Historically, women did at times occupy positions of power in Armenia, there were women who were heads of state of Armenian ancestry.

The point is not as such competition, in any case, competition between men is rather wasteful, collaboration makes for more sense economically. The goal is rather that a woman can receive equal pay, can choose when and who she marries, when and with whom she reproduces and can gain an education and persue her interest as any human being should be entitled to. It is the goal that a woman can have a sustainable life independently, and that if worst comes to worst and she is left by her husband if married, she can have a career and care for her child in the case of marriage.

Bottom line is, none of this can shown to destroy Armenia or threaten it, if anything, women's rights would benefit Armenia's stance politcally, internationally and at home. A strong Armenia, with good legal representation and a strong economy, means more immigration from the diaspora and also love emigration, meaning more births, meaning more Armenians.

[Mos]

Re: Women and Society

Hmm, but what of double standards? I mean why is it that a woman SHOULD be a virgin when marrying, but a man doesn't need to be, technically, according to the bible and the church, sex should only be in the confines of a marriage, while I'm not religious, I would assume this is the reason for the majority of Armenians, due to Armenia historically being a Chrstian state.

It's hard to pin down because it's such an old human custom. A mother I view who is starting a family should be pure, while the man's "pureness" is not as important as he is not the one bearing and actively looking after the children. You see this custom in many cultures, across religious lines.

Gender roles have not always existed as they are now, the current method of the family unit is one that comes due to the economic system in play. It was not uncommon in Medieval Armenia for women to work fields, make textiles, etc. which also engenders working and labour. The present economic system dictated that women are to remain in the household cooking and cleaning. Historically, women did at times occupy positions of power in Armenia, there were women who were heads of state of Armenian ancestry.

Obviously, the economy of the family may lead for the woman to work. If there's not other choice, that it's a must for the family to survive. Of course, even as a working women, the woman is still required of her maternal duties. She just has more responsibilities now. Though I view it as woman should work when its an economic necessity for the family, that is why in Medieval Armenia women may have worked in such fields.

The point is not as such competition, in any case, competition between men is rather wasteful, collaboration makes for more sense economically. The goal is rather that a woman can receive equal pay, can choose when and who she marries, when and with whom she reproduces and can gain an education and persue her interest as any human being should be entitled to. It is the goal that a woman can have a sustainable life independently, and that if worst comes to worst and she is left by her husband if married, she can have a career and care for her child in the case of marriage.

I think a woman's life should be tied much more heavily to her family. Yes she can make certain decisions, but certain decisions should be made by her parents, so that they can guide her to a more successful future. The guidance of parents is crucial, especially in decisions like marriage.

Bottom line is, none of this can shown to destroy Armenia or threaten it, if anything, women's rights would benefit Armenia's stance politcally, internationally and at home. A strong Armenia, with good legal representation and a strong economy, means more immigration from the diaspora and also love emigration, meaning more births, meaning more Armenians.

Radical feminism is destroying the moral, social, and demographic structures of Europe. I don't see that Feminism as compatible in Armenia. And to my knowledge it has to an extent started infesting Armenia.

[Pedro Xaramillo]

Re: Women and Society

So far what "radical" feminism has done is :

# Prevent women being raped in marriages
# Prevent women battered by their husbands
# Allowed women to speak out about abuse and rape

That doesn't seem exactly like destroying Armenia by any rational human perspective.
Children born of rape usually are unloved if we look at a procreation aspect, in a empathetic way, it damages the psyche being raped and/or abused. Not good to have a lot of people sit with issues such as anywhere from trust issues to BPD, Schizophrenia, etc. all due to having their trust betrayed by loved ones.

It's antiquated to say a woman then must be pure if it's merely for reproductive reasons, as a woman can use birth control. If it applies that a woman "shouldn't" have sex before marriage, it should apply to men too.
That said, it's not the place of the state or government to define what someone is allowed to do with themselves as long as they do not directly harm someone else or place their lives in danger.

In general, the worst you'll see due to feminism, is women being paid equally, actually being able to support themselves, less strip clubs in Armenia (although the majority are anyway Russians that are in the clubs), less prostitution and more reports of abuse if it has occurred. Not exactly the boogieman it's claimed to be.

Being tied to your family should be a trait universal to men and women, you should be loyal to your wife and children, same goes for a wife toward her husband and child. However loyalty does not mean having to take abuse or having your right to fair treatment limited. Hence, don't be a douchebag and cheat nor abuse your spouse, fairly simple really.

[KanadaHye]

Re: Women and Society

Hmm, but what of double standards? I mean why is it that a woman SHOULD be a virgin when marrying, but a man doesn't need to be, technically, according to the bible and the church, sex should only be in the confines of a marriage, while I'm not religious, I would assume this is the reason for the majority of Armenians, due to Armenia historically being a Chrstian state.

It's all a numbers game. When men go to war and die, the number of women remaining is higher than the number of men. Therefore, when women outnumber men, men have no choice but to satisfy more than one woman. Now, the woman that loses her virginity becomes the "smurfette" of the village. That means, she gets to be the doll that gets used to turn boys into men before they go to war and fight the enemy. Those that come back alive get to marry a virgin and start life all over again.

Get it?

Seriously bro, virginity was just the norm among many indigenous people who had an ounce of brains that wasn't controlled by the media.

[Mos]

Re: Women and Society

So far what "radical" feminism has done is :

# Prevent women being raped in marriages
# Prevent women battered by their husbands
# Allowed women to speak out about abuse and rape

I really don't see any connection.

It's antiquated to say a woman then must be pure if it's merely for reproductive reasons, as a woman can use birth control. If it applies that a woman "shouldn't" have sex before marriage, it should apply to men too.
That said, it's not the place of the state or government to define what someone is allowed to do with themselves as long as they do not directly harm someone else or place their lives in danger.

It's not just for reproductive reasons. It's a metaphysical issue that a woman you marry with which you will start a family, who will bear you children and raise them, as a higher requirement to be pure than the male.

In general, the worst you'll see due to feminism, is women being paid equally, actually being able to support themselves, less strip clubs in Armenia (although the majority are anyway Russians that are in the clubs), less prostitution and more reports of abuse if it has occurred. Not exactly the boogieman it's claimed to be.

Just look at Holland or UK to see the worst of feminism. I think strip clubs and prostitution are hard to control, but should be restricted in Armenia, especially sex trafficking.

Being tied to your family should be a trait universal to men and women, you should be loyal to your wife and children, same goes for a wife toward her husband and child. However loyalty does not mean having to take abuse or having your right to fair treatment limited. Hence, don't be a douchebag and cheat nor abuse your spouse, fairly simple really.

Yes Husband should be loyal, but for the wife being loyal is even more important. Again it comes down to the nature of the wife's role. Woman in her early years making key decisions should be tied to the family.

I have never talked about abuse. Obviously in any civil family there shouldn't be any abuse.

[Hyegirl]

Re: Women and Society

There are different kinds of feminism. Being a feminist doesn't automatically mean wanting to be a man, but should include things like wanting women to be given respect as human beings. Women are wired to be nurturers and men hunters, but we do what we need to in life. Anyone who thinks that a woman belongs tied up in a kitchen all day, pregnant and barefoot, doesn't respect what a woman is capable of.

xxxxty feminism=bad.
Feminism that gives women choices in life, respects what they do as equal to men and the brains as just as intelligent, and their lives as just as valuable=good.

Denying a woman the choice to be wrong and xxxxty=bad
Encouraging a woman to do wrong=bad
Only blaming women for promiscuous sex in society and objectification without even considering that it takes two to tango=also bad but far to common in many places.

[hrai]

Re: Women and Society

So far what "radical" feminism has done is :

# Prevent women being raped in marriages
# Prevent women battered by their husbands
# Allowed women to speak out about abuse and rape

Wow, pretty powerful stuff this "radical" feminism, can it direct it's powers to prevent other crimes ?

Pedro, sometimes you come out with utter xxxxe, to claim the above.............unfortunately the wife-beating & wife-raping still occur, even in societies which have severe penalties for these crimes.