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Turkey's challenge to the Armenians

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  • #101
    You bet we want our home back!

    Originally posted by tonguedepressor
    Don't let the nickname offend you. Yes I am a Turk.
    I am not offended, but your nickname translates: I **** the moderator. I thought this could only come from invader instincts and I was right.

    Originally posted by tonguedepressor
    The article unveils the real Armenian intentions and it is important for Turks to know that.
    You bet your life! The article expresses the rightful demands of a people oppressed for a thousand years by your UNINVITED, UNWANTED, LOATHED INVADING grandpaws.

    Originally posted by tonguedepressor
    I presume an acceptance of your genocide claims and an apology would not suffice your requirements.
    You rightly presume, of course not. YOU KILLED MY PEOPLE AND ARE DESTROYING ALL OUR MONUMENTS AND ARE OCCUPYING MY HOMELAND.

    Khtskonk Monastery Before and After 1

    Khtskonk Monastery Before and After 2

    Bagrevand Monastery Before and After

    Narekavank Before and After

    I'm spending a lot of time replying the posts, I cannot find time to write my rebuttal of your revisionist bible spewed by Injust McFarty & Co.
    There you'll get all the answers to the stereotype copy-paste challenges every one of you puts to us all the time. They all regurgitate the same clichés that can be summarized as:

    I. It was war…
    II. Ottomans only wanted to relocate the rebels
    III. If the Turks wanted to kill the Armenians why didn’t they kill them where they lived and despite the fact that they were engaged in war they took the expensive decision to relocate the Armenians?
    IV. What reason on earth did the Turks had to exterminate the Armenians?
    V. Armenians revolted against their masters, they got what they deserved
    VI. Turks died as well.
    VII. It was the Armenian “terrorists” who killed up to a million Turks
    VIII. Yes, there were cases of violent attacks but it was not planned
    IX. Armenians lived peacefully in the Ottoman “empire” until one day Armenians betrayed their masters
    X. Let’s play the numbers game, Armenians highly exaggerate the number of dead.
    XI. There is no comparison between the Holocaust and the what happened to Armenians
    XII. Present day Armenia should forget the past and establish ties with its neighbors
    XIII. Leave the subject to historians
    XIV. Let us organize a meeting between historians of the two sides and see who’s right.
    XV. Turkey has opened its archives. Why doesn’t Armenia do the same?
    XVI. If it was genocide then how come the Armenians in Constantinople were not massacred?
    XVII. You have slandered the Turks and have tarnished our honor for a long time, now its our turn to attack and expose your “lies”
    XVIII. Armenians are not the indigenous people of “Eastern Anatolia”
    XIX. It was the Ottomans who committed these crimes. Why should the present Turkish state be held responsible?
    XX. The countries that have recognized the Armenian Genocide have an agenda

    Before you answer me with a copy-paste “article” that reflects the points above have a little bit of patience to se them all answered. This way a lot of time will be spared.
    So if you'll allow me. Meanwhile to "foster a civilized discussion" spend some time wallowing in the glorious feats of your ancestors and read my post quoting Aristakes Lastivertsi, regarding the Seljuk invasion.
    Four things denialist Turks do when they are confronted with facts:

    I. They change the subject [SIZE="1"](e.g. they copy/paste tons of garbage to divert attention).[/SIZE]
    II. They project [SIZE="1"](e.g. they replace "Turk" with "Armenian" and vice versa and they regurgitate Armenian history).[/SIZE]
    III. They offend [SIZE="1"](e.g. they cuss, threaten and/or mock).[/SIZE]
    IV. They shut up and say nothing.

    [URL="http://b.imagehost.org/download/0689/azerbaijan-real-fake-absurd.pdf"][COLOR="Red"]A country named Azerbaijan north of the Arax River [B]NEVER[/B] existed before 1918[/COLOR][/URL]

    Comment

    • #102
      Originally posted by Bugra
      Racist slurs
      Racist slurs? I'm racist for stating the facts of history?


      Originally posted by Bugra
      but before 1850s it was not true.

      It is true for the entire 1800s before the Armenian genocide. That's a fact. You can ask any historian you wish about the cultural differences between Armenians and Turks back in Ottoman times which is also another motive for young turks to want to get rid of the Armenians.

      Comment

      • #103
        Originally posted by Bugra
        Now I understand this is why the head of history department in Yerivan state university says, "Diaspora is harming Armenian cause by distorting facts".
        May be we should discuss this genocide issue only with Armenians of Armenia, instead of Diaspora leaders.
        Look! they said it again! Bad diaspora... bad diaspora!

        I'll tell you who you would want to discuss the genocide with. Someone who has absolutely no knowledge about the past. Now that my friend, would be your ideal candidate, won't it?

        Comment

        • #104
          You bet we want our home back!

          Originally posted by tonguedepressor
          Don't let the nickname offend you. Yes I am a Turk.
          I am not offended, but your nickname translates: I **** the moderator. I thought this could only come from invader instincts and I was right.

          Originally posted by tonguedepressor
          I posted the article because I believe it can foster a civilized discussion. The article unveils the real Armenian intentions and it is important for Turks to know that.
          You bet your life! The article expresses the rightful demands of a people oppressed for a thousand years by your UNINVITED, UNWANTED, LOATHED INVADING grandpaws.

          Originally posted by tonguedepressor
          I presume an acceptance of your genocide claims and an apology would not suffice your requirements.
          You rightly presume, of course not. YOU KILLED MY PEOPLE AND ARE DESTROYING ALL OUR MONUMENTS AND ARE OCCUPYING MY HOMELAND.

          Khtskonk Monastery Before and After 1

          Khtskonk Monastery Before and After 2

          Bagrevand Monastery Before and After

          Narekavank Before and After

          I'm spending a lot of time replying the posts, I cannot find time to write my rebuttal of your revisionist bible spewed by Injust McFarty & Co.
          There you'll get all the answers to the stereotype copy-paste challenges every one of you puts to us all the time. They all regurgitate the same clichés that can be summarized as:

          I. It was war…
          II. Ottomans only wanted to relocate the rebels.
          III. If the Turks wanted to kill the Armenians why didn’t they kill them where they lived and despite the fact that they were engaged in war they took the expensive decision to relocate the Armenians?
          IV. What reason on earth did the Turks have to exterminate the Armenians?
          V. Armenians revolted against their masters, they got what they deserved.
          VI. Turks died as well.
          VII. It was the Armenian “terrorists” who killed up to a million Turks.
          VIII. Yes, there were cases of violent attacks but it was not planned.
          IX. Armenians lived peacefully in the Ottoman “empire” until one day Armenians betrayed their masters.
          X. Let’s play the numbers game, Armenians highly exaggerate the number of dead.
          XI. There is no comparison between the Holocaust and the what happened to Armenians.
          XII. Present day Armenia should forget the past and establish ties with its neighbors.
          XIII. Leave the subject to historians.
          XIV. Let us organize a meeting between historians of the two sides and see who’s right.
          XV. Turkey has opened its archives. Why doesn’t Armenia do the same?
          XVI. If it was genocide then how come the Armenians in Constantinople were not massacred?
          XVII. You have slandered the Turks and have tarnished our honor for a long time, now its our turn to attack and expose your “lies”.
          XVIII. Armenians are not the indigenous people of “Eastern Anatolia”.
          XIX. It was the Ottomans who committed these crimes. Why should the present Turkish state be held responsible?
          XX. The countries that have recognized the Armenian Genocide have an agenda.

          Before you answer me with a copy-paste “article” that reflects the points above have a little bit of patience to see them all answered. This way a lot of time will be spared.
          So if you'll allow me. Meanwhile to "foster a civilized discussion" spend some time wallowing in the glorious feats of your ancestors and read my post quoting Aristakes Lastivertsi, regarding the Seljuk invasion.
          Four things denialist Turks do when they are confronted with facts:

          I. They change the subject [SIZE="1"](e.g. they copy/paste tons of garbage to divert attention).[/SIZE]
          II. They project [SIZE="1"](e.g. they replace "Turk" with "Armenian" and vice versa and they regurgitate Armenian history).[/SIZE]
          III. They offend [SIZE="1"](e.g. they cuss, threaten and/or mock).[/SIZE]
          IV. They shut up and say nothing.

          [URL="http://b.imagehost.org/download/0689/azerbaijan-real-fake-absurd.pdf"][COLOR="Red"]A country named Azerbaijan north of the Arax River [B]NEVER[/B] existed before 1918[/COLOR][/URL]

          Comment

          • #105
            Originally posted by Bugra
            I know my history, including the armenians and their contribution. This is a simple racist claim. We had a civilization that enlighted Europe in their darkest centuries. Just find an Istanbul Armenian and tell this racist claims to that person ok? I am not here for childish racist debate

            This is not a childish racist debate... but if you can't hear the truth, maybe you shouldn't be here in the first place.

            Comment

            • #106
              Originally posted by Bugra
              So 300,000 were killed in 1895 by Hamid han, 1.5 million killed in 1915, 400,000 forecefully converted.
              Interesting numbers so Armenians really outnumbered Turks and Muslims, according to you.
              According to me, Armenians outnumbered the Turks? Perhaps, a "reading comprehension" course is just what you need. I never said 400,000 Armenians were forcefully converted to Islam. Why do you put words in my mouth?

              Comment

              • #107
                Originally posted by Bugra
                Yes You have never said but the Armenian official version states that currently there are 2 million armenians coverted to Islam lives in Turkey. I do not read your claims only my friends. I dont want to turn this into a personal debate which diverts the main point.

                Yes according to official Armenian claims these numbers just show that Armenians outnumbered Turks.
                Do me a favor, find those "official Armenian claims" that state that Armenians outnumbered the Turks in Ottoman Empire and post it here.

                Comment

                • #108
                  Originally posted by Bugra
                  And up until 20 years or so Armenians claimed 2.5 million Armenians were killed.

                  STOP LYING

                  Comment

                  • #109
                    Hi Helektor,

                    I was doing my assignment about the Armenian and the Mongolian History. I read something that might be in your interest. Maybe it is time to change few of your comments that I have quoted down for your ease.

                    Originally posted by Hellektor
                    ….your savage, barbaric, nomadic ancestors raided their towns and villages and razed everything to the ground and raped and killed mercilessly and that for a thousand years. Chingiz, editedbyme, Holagu, Kubilay all the way to editedbyme…
                    Blood thirsty mass murderers every one of them (boldbyme). Your sole “contribution” to civilization…
                    Originally posted by Hellektor
                    If you only had the slightest idea who Mashtots, Narekatsi, Khorenatsi, Heratsi, David Anhaght, Nersess Shnorhali, Sayad Nova... (the list is endless) were and compared them to your ancestors such as Chingiz, editedbyme , Holagu, Kubilay... editedbyme , known the world around as the most barbaric, savage, blood thirsty, mass murdering creatures ever existed
                    Originally posted by Hellektor
                    Your grandfathers and your great grandfathers and your great great grandfathers and your great great great grandfathers were all savage, barbaric, nomadic two legged humanoid beasts. Just read history: Chingiz, editedbyme ,Qubilai, Mango editedbyme ,, Hulagu... editedbyme ,were all blood thirsty, man eating, rape crazy, child stealing, cities to cinders razing, mass murdering genocidal maniacs. In order to shake off this negativity and start being part of the civilized human race, you should face your history.
                    Originally posted by Hellektor
                    By the way with every post you reveal that you are one intolerant, rude, violent, aggressive, savage, barbaric, nomadic, cattle herder Mongolo-Tatar,…
                    Originally posted by Hellektor
                    By the way, what have YOU brought humanity? Chingiz, editedbyme , Holagu, Kubilai...
                    The following passages are from The Flower of Histories of the East from Robert Bedrosian website ;

                    403 Forbidden
                    http://rbedrosian.com/hetumint.htm


                    The Flower of Histories of the East first appeared in 1307 in the city of Poitiers. Dictated in French by the Cilician Armenian statesman and general, Het'um, and then translated into Latin the same year by his secretary, Nicholas Falcon, the work is contained in four books.

                    Het'um, born sometime in the mid 1240s, was a son of prince Oshin, lord of Korikos in Cilician Armenia.

                    Het'um's uncles, Smbat and King Het'um I, would have been extremely rich and accessible oral sources. During the initial period of Mongol-Cilician contact, both had made the multi-year journey to the Far East: Smbat in 1247-51 and King Het'um I in 1254-55.

                    You once asked me Mongke, now I know who he is.

                    Mongke-Khan, Fourth Ruler of the Tartars
                    In A.D. 1253 when lord Hetum, King of the Armenians, observed that the Tartars had completely subjugated all of the kingdoms, districts and territories up to the realm of the Turks, he consulted with his advisors and resolved to go in person to the King of the Tartars, to more easily obtain his favor and friendship, and to try to arrange a peace treaty with him. But first he sent baron Smbat, Constable of the Armenian kingdom, his brother, to obtain a decree of safe conduct for his journey. Thus Smbat, the King's brother, went to the Tartar Khan [in Karakorum, 1247] to graciously arrange the affairs of his patron. Four years later he returned to the Armenians [1251] to relate what he had seen and heard. Then the King of the Armenians [in 1254] went in secret so that he would not be recognized in the country of the Turks which he had to traverse. And as God willed it, [g44] the Tartar general who had defeated the Sultan of the Turks graciously received the Armenian King and had him conducted as far as the kingdom of [Greater] Armenia and to the Iron Gate. Thence other Tartar commanders accompanied him to Ameghek [Amelic, southeast of Lake Balkash] where Mongke, Khan of the Tatars, resided. Mongke received him honorably [and gave him great gifts and favors, oe37].
                    Now after some days had passed, the King of the Armenians beseeched the Khan regarding the peace treaty and other matters he desired. With the consent of the Khan, the King of the Armenians put [seven] requests before him. First, he urged the Khan to convert to Christianity and to accept baptism together with his people; second, he requested that eternal peace and friendship be established between them [between the Tartars and the Christians, oe37]; third, that it be possible to construct Christian churches in all of the Tartar countries and that the Armenians be freed from taxes and other burdens [that in all the lands that the Tartars had conquered and would conquer, the Christians--priests, clerks, and all religious persons--should be free of all taxes, oe37]; fourth, that the Holy Land and the Holy Sepulcher be wrested from the Turks [Saracens, oe37] and given to the Christians; fifth, that the Caliph in Baghdad, the head of the [Muslim] religion, be done away with [that he would command the Tartars in Turkey to help in the destruction of the city of Baghdad and the Caliph (the chief and teacher of the false faith of Mahmet), oe37]; sixth, that all of the Tartars [stationed close to the realm of Armenia, oe37] come to his aid when requested; seventh, that all of the districts of the land of Armenians which the Turks had conquered be returned to him. [The seventh request was that all the lands that the Saracens had taken that had belonged to the realm of Armenia and had since come into the Tartars' hands, be freely restored to him; and also that all the lands he might conquer from the Saracens he might hold in peace without any dispute from the Tartars. oe37]
                    When the Tartar Khan had consulted with his princes and grandees, he replied to the King of Armenia: "I accept your requests. I shall accept baptism and adopt the Christian religion and show concern that all of my subjects do likewise, without, however, any coercion. Regarding the second request, let there be eternal peace between us, an alliance covering both offensive and [g45] defensive operations. [The second request we will that perpetual peace and love be established among the Christians and the Tartars; but we will that you pledge that the Christians will hold good peace and true love toward us as we shall do toward them. oe38] Similarly we wish that all Christian churches, clergy and laity, enjoy freedom, and that no one harass the Armenians. [And we will that all Christian churches, priests, clerks and all other persons, of whatever persuasion they be, secular or religious persons, shall be free and delivered of all taxes, and also they shall be defended from all manner of hurt both of body and goods. oe38] Were it possible, we should like to revere the Holy Land in person; however, being occupied with other matters, we are sending our brother Hulegu to take it and return the Holy Land to the Christians. As for doing away with the Caliph of Baghdad, we entrust that task to Baiju, commander of the Tartars, and to his people residing in the realm of the Turks and thereabouts. The Tartars shall aid the Armenians in everything, and those lands which belonged to the Armenians should be returned to them without delay. [We shall comand our brother Halcon [Hulegu] to go with you to accomplish this deed, and shall deliver the Holy Land from the Saracens and restore it to the Christians; and we shall send our command to Baiju and to the other Tartars in Turkey and to the others that are in those countries that they shall obey our brother Halcon. And he shall go to take the city of Baghdad, and destroy the Caliph as our mortal enemy. oe38] We command furthermore, as a special favor, that all fortresses and country which we capture should be given to the Armenian King for the defense of the land of Armenia. [We grant with good will that all the lands which the King of Armenia requested should be restored to him and we command our brother Halcon [Hulegu] that he yield to him all the lands that were of his lordship; and moreover we give him all the lands that he may conquer against the Saracens, and of our special favor, we give him all the castles near his land. oe38]
                    Chapter 24
                    The Baptism of Mongke-Khan
                    Mongke, after accepting the requests of the Armenian King with charitable munificence, had himself baptised by the chancellor of the Armenian kingdom who was a bishop. His house, and numerous other esteemed and noble men and women were baptised with him. Then he appointed troops to accompany his brother, Hulegu, in aiding the Holy Land. Now Hulegu and the King of Armenia travelled together [with a great company of troops, oe39] until they had crossed the Phison River. Hulegu conquered the entire realm [of Persia, oe39] in three [six, oe39] months' time. He went as far as the kingdom of the Assassins. These people were faithless and lived without laws, and would kill themselves on the direction of their king. [g46] [And they took all the lands and countries up to where the Assassins dwelled. These are men without any faith or belief except what their lord, called the Old Man of the Mountain, taught them; and they are so obedient to their lord that they put themselves to death at his command. oe39] They had a fortress named Dikaton [?Gird-Kuh] which was supplied with all the necessities, and extremely secure. Hulegu ordered one of his generals to besiege it with his Tartar troops [and not depart until he had taken it, oe39]. After twenty-seven years, the place was taken because of the privations caused by the seige. It was at this place [when Hulegu had begun the seige, oe39] that the King of Armenia, honored with many gifts by Hulegu, returned to his kingdom after three and a half years.

                    Comment

                    • #110
                      Ignorance and Arrogance

                      Originally posted by Bugra
                      We had a civilization that enlighted Europe in their darkest centuries.
                      My, my…
                      There’s a Persian proverb that goes: The uglier the monkey, the more arrogant and capricious it gets.

                      Since your ancestors set hoof on our soil we saw nothing but “babies hurled mercilessly against rock”, “fresh and prosperous virgins and women fallen in disgrace, led away into slavery on foot...” and that for a thousand years.

                      You have been “mercilessly setting fire to the homes and churches”. You set everything alight and you think this enlightened Europe? It may have “enlightened” for a few hours but later the whole land was reduced to cinders.

                      Get a life. Read some real history books for a change and don’t bring your revisionist delusional garbage here.
                      Four things denialist Turks do when they are confronted with facts:

                      I. They change the subject [SIZE="1"](e.g. they copy/paste tons of garbage to divert attention).[/SIZE]
                      II. They project [SIZE="1"](e.g. they replace "Turk" with "Armenian" and vice versa and they regurgitate Armenian history).[/SIZE]
                      III. They offend [SIZE="1"](e.g. they cuss, threaten and/or mock).[/SIZE]
                      IV. They shut up and say nothing.

                      [URL="http://b.imagehost.org/download/0689/azerbaijan-real-fake-absurd.pdf"][COLOR="Red"]A country named Azerbaijan north of the Arax River [B]NEVER[/B] existed before 1918[/COLOR][/URL]

                      Comment

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