What did Turkish Americans do on April 24?

[taboo]

First things firts the then Ruling party "Ittihat and Terraki" called themselves "Young Turks" and their ideology was based on the doctrine of ultra-nationalism (turancilik) whose traces can be found in some of today's political parties(MHP, Alparslan Turkes(dead now))...that's why you say u feel connected to the Turks in Asia...(funny because the same turks Tlat pasha wanted to unite under pan-turkism ended up killing him ) when it comes to religion clearly Turkey is a secular country now thanks to Ataturk but yet your religion is the same (so u do have the same religion as Ottomans) and yes todays Turkey is different than the Ottoman times...so why didn't anyone comeout publicly and say what ur saying instead of flat out denying it?

First rule of the democracy is giving the same oportunity to everyone. Sure there are still some sick people who has the same wierd idea. But you can not say that that is the ideology of the entire nation and the government.
Ottoman goverenment has already punished those people who commite crime to the minorities, and Ataturk clearly said that Turkey is a multi cultural and respectfull country to the minorites.

btw, i am saying we connected to the Turks in Asia because we share the same language, but not in sick fascist way. i am not a fascist or anything like that, and i personaly hate them.

[Tongue]

that was hilareous dude anything flies what about the one that read greeks-armenians killed 3 million turks...

Gotta agree with the photographer...that one takes the cake. lol
I mean COME ON... That's just hysterical!!! I wonder how they came up with the number. They probably did a lottery and 3 won, only if it was higher...

[imported_nemesis]

First rule of the democracy is giving the same oportunity to everyone. Sure there are still some sick people who has the same wierd idea. But you can not say that that is the ideology of the entire nation and the government.
Ottoman goverenment has already punished those people who commite crime to the minorities, and Ataturk clearly said that Turkey is a multi cultural and respectfull country to the minorites.

yes I agree Ataturk punished those responsible for that and definitely that is not the ideology of today's turks..but one thing is for sure Turkey is yet to become a respectful country to their minorities whose size it reduced due to their policies and the doctrines I described above...

[adamyan_chick]

Well, some thoughts of the innocent present-day Turks.

Yes, the blood of the cruel and unforgivable Turks run through the veins of the Turks of today. But what about the innocent Turks? What about the Turks who HELPED some Armenians?

[Hovik]

Yes, the blood of the cruel and unforgivable Turks run through the veins of the Turks of today. But what about the innocent Turks? What about the Turks who HELPED some Armenians?

Your question is dealt with in this forum under a thread titled "Forgotten Hero's" under the "general discussions" section. Happy reading...
Hovik

[human]

Where is peace now?

Hi everybody,

I am a Turkish citizen who still has armenian friends living in Turkey as Turkish citizens. I must confess I love them very much and they do love me too. You know, there are different nations living in Turkey. I am a Turk.

According to me, whatever happened in the past, it was about Ottoman Empire. Ottoman is the name of a family and that empire was not a nationalist state so no one can say that today's Turkish Citizens'history is coming from Ottoman Empire.

Ottomans were not my ancestors. They were not ancestors of Kurds, Arabs, Armenians or Jews living in today's Turkey. Ottoman Emperor was just a part of the history of these lands.

If you say that Turkish government must recognize Armenian Genocide, it means that all nations living in Turkey will recognize it, also my armenian friends who are Turkish Citizens.

The thing what happened in the past was about a state which is no longer existing. As a turkish citizen I am sure my grandfathers did not kill any armenians, why do ı need to apologize for something that is not releated with me.

There are still armenians, jews, christians, kurds, arabs living in this country. Why do they have to apologize for something which they did not do?

If you ask today's turkish government to apologize or recognize something happened in the past, it means that people who are not releated with this issue, including armenian Turkish Citizens will apologize for it.

Now, am I a potential enemy for you just because I live in Turkey? Are you brave enough to love me? Be sure that I love you because at least you are a human and whatever happenned in the past, I did nothing to you and you did nothing to me. All of you are my human brothers and sisters.

Hate gets bigger when you hate. Love gets bigger when you love.

I want to ask something. I really do not know the answer and I want to learn. Some of the provinces in the USA and some countries on the world recognized Armenian Genocide. Did the present Armenia State, who suffered from genocide in the past, recognize the genocide against american indians by the USA?

Best wishes to all of you from a Human.

[Heathenpride]

well... there is no diffrence for me if Turks work for God or Satan. Because people who were on "God side" were the true murderers in history everytime... (For ex. Crusaders, or El Qaide, or Ally of George W. Bush)

and I am a Kurd who live in Turkey too and you are not the person who can talk about Kurdish people in Turkey.

[abian]

[QUOTE/]"According to me, whatever happened in the past, it was about Ottoman Empire. Ottoman is the name of a family and that empire was not a nationalist state so no one can say that today's Turkish Citizens'history is coming from Ottoman Empire."[/QUOTE]

Well, actually, that is not true. Ottoman Empire's last ruler of Osman decent was Abdul Hamid II, who was deposed in April of 1909. Although Abdul Hamid did preside over the Turkish army and both Turkish and Kurd irregulars which massacred Armenians and Greeks starting in 1890 through about 1900, the scale of killings under Abdul Hamid (numbering in hundreds of thousands) was much less then the genocide unleashed by his deposers, the Young Turks, Enver-Pasha and others from 1915 to 1923.

[QUOTE/]"Ottomans were not my ancestors. They were not ancestors of Kurds, Arabs, Armenians or Jews living in today's Turkey. Ottoman Emperor was just a part of the history of these lands."[/QUOTE]

Actually, that is not true either. Ethnically and genetically, the majority of Turks living today are direct descendants of ethnic Turks who were ruled by the Ottomans.


[QUOTE/]"The thing what happened in the past was about a state which is no longer existing. As a turkish citizen I am sure my grandfathers did not kill any armenians, why do ı need to apologize for something that is not releated with me."[/QUOTE]

Modern Turkey directly descends from the Young Turks government which is responsible for the worst of the genocide from 1915 to 1923. Mustafa Kemal was part of the military and civil leadership under the Young Turks. In fact, he was a chief of staff in the army which deposed Abdul Hamid and which was led by Enver Pasha, Shevket Pasha and other "Young Turks". As far as an apology, a personal apology is neither required, nor sensible. All that the world is calling for is a recognition by the Turkish government that the Genocide has occurred.

[QUOTE/]"There are still armenians, jews, christians, kurds, arabs living in this country. Why do they have to apologize for something which they did not do?"[/QUOTE]

Once again, the government has to recognize the atrocity. The minorities you mention here will benefit from Turkish government's recognition of the Genocide because a government which acknowledges its wrongdoings is more transparent and less likely to engage in suppression of minorities.

[QUOTE/]"Now, am I a potential enemy for you just because I live in Turkey? Are you brave enough to love me? Be sure that I love you because at least you are a human and whatever happenned in the past, I did nothing to you and you did nothing to me. All of you are my human brothers and sisters.".[/QUOTE]

No, you are not an enemy of the Armenians, Greeks and Kurds. However, if you participate in acts of violence condoned by your government unrepentant over the transgressions of the past you will be. If your government recognizes and repudiates acts of violence against Turkish minorities, you will never be an enemy of these minorities.

[abian]

Heanthenpride's reply

Heathenpride,

I'm not sure what you are trying to say in your message. You seem to be arguing against something I posted, but I cannot tell against what or, in fact, how any of your arguments are relevant. The last paragraph of your message is very revealing, however. Do you mean to say that you believe one hundred years ago armenians were at fault for creating "barriers" for Turkey?

[abian]

No minority

Human,

The word "minority" as it is used in most democracies does not mean that the individuals so described have less rights or lower status. It does mean that by some common characteristic these individuals are different than the "majority" who live in that country. There are a number of minorities in France, for example tunisians, algerians, alsacians, protestants, etc. Minorities could be ethnic, religious, or, in fact, gender minorities. Recognition of existance of minorities is useful to ensure that laws that the democratic state promulgates do not impinge on the rights of all its citizens. Your message indicates that it is you who lacks knowledge in the definition of a "minority". The existence of minorities cannot be argued against - you yourself state that there are many nationalities and religious groups which comprise Turkey.

Regarding your other point I am very glad that you don't like the Young Turks. It would be difficult to like homicidal butchers. Nevertheless, you seem to miss the point. The government of the Young Turks cannot be called "Ottoman" because a descendant of Othman was not on the throne or in any way involved in government. By the international law, just because the government in a country changes, the country's rights, advantages, obligations and culpabilities are sustained. That also extends to revolutionary and radical changes in the government. Thus, modern Turkish government is culpable for the transgressions of both the Young Turk and the Ottoman government.