Your Greek Friends Stand Beside You!

[notjustarmenian]

You know, Notjustarmenian, I really get ripped off when people warn me, advise me if you wish, cajole me when it pleases you, laugh at me all times, but warn me?.....p**s off.
Understood?

It was not a warning of a threatening nature but a warning against using such terminology in such a context. In other words, simply advice. "warn" was probably the wrong word. I should have used "advise against" to be clear.

[notjustarmenian]

Can you quote chapter and verse of his references please?

Yes, of course, although I did mention it was on page 13 in my original post about the book.

Excerpt from page 13:

"It has been estimated that about 20 per cent of the population of Anatolia died violently during the last ten years of the Ottoman empire's existence: some 2.5 million Muslims, up to 800,000 Armenians and 300,000 Greeks.... its population was now 96 per cent Muslim, up from 80 per cent before the decade of mutual slaughter began."

[notjustarmenian]

What evidence do you have of "earlier testimonies", earlier than interviews in the 2004/05 years and descriptions of events in 1923......were these earlier testaments made by time-travellers?

"Earlier" with regards to the events they relate to rather than when the interviews were conducted. In other words, testimonies that do not relate to the population exchange of 1923 have been used generically and selectively. For instance, testimonies that refer to expulsions of a couple years prior to the 1923 exchange are used in some areas. As you read through the book you will come across such pieces.

[Panos26]

50-50 according to who? British, American, Italian, French and even Japanese archives all systematically document Turkish responsibility for the fire. Moreover, there are numerous books published in Turkey by Turkish publishers and written by Turkish academics containing Turkish eyewitness accounts on the burning of Smyrna.



I do not hate Turkey; I love Turkey. I have no hate for Turkey or the Turks. I disapprove of genocide revisionists and condemn governments guilty of perpetrating genocide.



Events in Cyprus have nothing to with events that occurred decades earlier in the Ottoman Empire. Each have to be evaluated separately unless they are somehow intertwined. In this case they are not.

i already provided a neutral link that shows british sources holding the Greek side responsible.The rest is used for propaganda from both countries.The truth as i said is always somewhere in the Middle.
Regarding Cyprus i was generally debating our hardcore stance against Turkey throughour modern history.

[Panos26]

I suppose from that statement you consider turkey to not be a Balkan state?

Hardly a Balkan state,to be honest.I always class them in Asia.Never Europe or the Balkans.

[bell-the-cat]

You know, Notjustarmenian, I really get ripped off when people warn me, advise me if you wish, cajole me when it pleases you, laugh at me all times, but warn me?.....p**s off.
Understood?

Yeh, watch out NjA.
You don't want Steph to start thinking you are "dizrepectin" him. In England that would allow Steph to feel justified in killing you. As in "what right have you to be warning me to stop with the smoking, are you dizrespectin me? ... you see this gun ... bammm!"

[bell-the-cat]

The truth as i said is always somewhere in the Middle.

The truth is what the truth it. Two plus two doesn't equal five because one person says it equals four, and another says it equals six. Nor should proof that it equals four be based on the fact that one person claims it really equals three and another claims it really equals five.

[notjustarmenian]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Fire_of_Smyrna


Gavur here is what neutral sources claim.No one saying the Turks burnt it or Greeks.There is propaganda from both sides.One accusing the other.

Oral tradition also in Turkey has it that the Greeks burnt it.I believe that as well.

The British sources in this article are not British eyewitness testimonies but two selective declarations of opinion based on God knows which influencing factors. Eyewitness testimonies in the British archives all cite the Turks as responsible for the fire. You may also like to examine the documents of British Vice-Consul Urquhart if you are interested in the British side.

By the way, it is most amusing that you base your knowledge on Wikipedia's account of the burning of Izmir -- one of the most reliable sources!

There is a beautiful book by a Turkish academic called Türkiye'de Sözlü Tarih, Kimlik ve Öznellik ["Who Am I?": Oral History, Identity and Subjectivity in Turkey] by Leyla Neyzi. You might like to read it especially since you talk of "oral tradition":

“… September 9th 1922, the Turkish forces entered Izmir. But the Izmir fire started a few days after this (September 13th), after the Turkish army had entered Izmir. However, in the common memories of the Turks its place [the date] is so uncertain that some make the mistake of claiming that the fire started before the Greeks left Izmir.” sourced from page 80.

She also uses solely Turkish eyewitnesses that all explicitly state the Turks started the fire. There are many other Turkish volumes I can recommend too.

[Steph]

Hardly a Balkan state,to be honest.I always class them in Asia.Never Europe or the Balkans.

I tend to agree with you there, but having a foothold in Eastern Thrace, control of the Dardadanelles, really Balkan they, or part of them, are.

[Steph]

Yeh, watch out NjA.
You don't want Steph to start thinking you are "dizrepectin" him. In England that would allow Steph to feel justified in killing you. As in "what right have you to be warning me to stop with the smoking, are you dizrespectin me? ... you see this gun ... bammm!"

MEEAAIIOOOWW!!!