One voice, revenge, hate...

[sue35205]

This is my last post,

There is nothing more annoying than censorship, as you have censored my post. So, Karpert and Turks can go calling each other liars to kingdom come. It seems that these Armenians are geared to Accommodate Turks. The Armenian’s legs shake when a Turk criticizes. Perhaps, before you Armenians can earn acknowledgement of your Genocide from Turks, you should gain self confidence and self respect! Perhaps you should learn from Israel!

Good Luck

PS: You Armenians who do the censorship, they are blind not to realize that these Turks know how to pull your strings! As for Karpert, I can fill pages with his personality dossier, a personality of an old, an old-fashion, a compromised, a narrow visioned, and diminished by hardships.

[Kharpert]

This forum does NOT follow the U.S. Constitution. The rules are very clear, and the decisions of the moderators on this forum are final. Not only the moderators but several others members have determined that your crude pictures are extremely excessive and not appropriate for the viewing of this forum. If you think you've been wronged, you should PM a moderator or the admin, because ignoring or flaming a forum leader will earn you little more than a ban.

And I know the limits of freedom of speech. I'm a proud American, too.

As for myself, I don't recall calling Turks liars. Neither do I recall my responses being "diminished by hardships". I would think it wise for the Republic of Armenia to approach the Republic of Turkey with distrust, but to hate Turks just for being Turks is nothing more than racism, and "hating" a state is an empty statement. And you think it's wise to follow the example of Israel considering how unsafe and unstable their republic is?

[Hovik]

This is my last post,

There is nothing more annoying than censorship, as you have censored my post. So, Karpert and Turks can go calling each other liars to kingdom come. It seems that these Armenians are geared to Accommodate Turks. The Armenian’s legs shake when a Turk criticizes. Perhaps, before you Armenians can earn acknowledgement of your Genocide from Turks, you should gain self confidence and self respect! Perhaps you should learn from Israel!

Good Luck

PS: You Armenians who do the censorship, they are blind not to realize that these Turks know how to pull your strings! As for Karpert, I can fill pages with his personality dossier, a personality of an old, an old-fashion, a compromised, a narrow visioned, and diminished by hardships.

An "American" should realize America is a land of rules that are generally respected by all. The rule of law is perhaps the greatest thing about America. This forum too has rules, and EVERYONE must obey them Turk, Armenian, and anyone else. I have issued warnings to, and banned people of all backgrounds - this has nothing to do with the forum rules. So if you want to participate, I suggest you do as the site says and visit the thread "Forum Rules: Read before posting".

Don't try to take the attention away from your immaturity by insulting Kharpert and forum moderators and preaching about what an American you are - you were speaking Armenian to me in your Private Messages - is someone having an identity crisis?

Oh and by the way, you talk of Armenians needing self respect - only somone posting fecal cartoons needs to develop more than a little of that...

[imported_Hellektor]

Proof dammit, proof!

When you ,Reincarnated, hear the word Turk your response is to insult. Almost all of the Turkish participants of this forum advocated the preservation of Armenian heritage in Turkey but you still say Turks of this forum against anything related with Armenian culture. You also ignore the fact that anything related with Turks or Muslims almost entirely wiped off from contemporary Armenian lands.

When you excrete defecation like this, would you be kind to provide some PROOF?

What "related with Turks or Muslims" has been "entirely wiped off from contemporary Armenian lands"?

Haven't you forgotten that "contemporary Armenian lands" are only 10% of our homeland and you have destroyed 90% of our heritage?

Can you name a monument, its location, approximate date of destruction, a picture thereof, a document that confirms this?

Blue mosque in Yerevan, restored by the Iranian government and fully functioning

This hypocrisy of yours is what I despise the most. Example:
Your fellow gray wolf calls me son of a xxxxx and bastard.
Where as I can assure you my parents were married a year before I was born and they didn't have spouses or kids before. Besides, it's the ass of this hateful germ that came out of a stinking putrid wolf's vagina (if one could call the female of a wolf xxxxx), humped by a male gray wolf, and started to waste precious oxygen for its miserable existence.

Then it claims I don't respond to its messages:
"Is that the only message ya have read or can't ya answer others?"
whereas it is it who refuses to admit that it's fuct and doesn't have the balls (the "brave" Turk that it is) to admit it.

You can call me whatever you like, you will not find ONE instance where I am not honest. Hypocrites are the worst of the lot and you have to convince me you are not one. Can you?

Has ANY one of you EVER apologized, no expressed their disgust, no condemned this barbaric savagery, this genocide in broad daylight?

Nope. So I'm trying, I'm trying hard (à la Samuel L. Jackson!) to believe you are homosapiens... Prove me wrong for ONCE and shame me, by denouncing this act of genocide.

You also ignore the fact that bandits of Karabag and Tashnak are ones today attacking Turks and everything represents Turkish culture. ( H.)

"You also ignore the fact" that YOU are the bandits.

[Reincarnated Am]

live with your hatred forever
make the life unbearable
teach your children the way of hating
like your parents did the same thing
enlarge your hate day by day
so you’ll dive into the sea of despair everyday

Turks passed on the hate to my Grandparents and from my Grandparents it was passed to me, hopefully I can pass it to my grad and grand grandchildren, just against Turks, till they become civilized enough to admit the truth.

[cosmos2]

Turks passed on the hate to my Grandparents and from my Grandparents it was passed to me, hopefully I can pass it to my grad and grand grandchildren, just against Turks, till they become civilized enough to admit the truth.

Trying to make Turkey civilized in this way will not be useful.

Your way is to enlarge the hate by adding more hate, nothing else. This way, on the contrary, may cause to more uncivilised world too.

Living with hate is hard for every person. Hate is not constructive, as opposite to this, it is destructive. So, is there a big theoretical difference between this way and genocide commiters?

[hitite]

Turks passed on the hate to my Grandparents and from my Grandparents it was passed to me, hopefully I can pass it to my grad and grand grandchildren, just against Turks, till they become civilized enough to admit the truth.

And when they admit the truth what will happen to all the hatred? Will it just vanish? Don't you think Turks should be exterminated completely and sent to the bloody hell they came from? After all they are the proof that satan really exists.

I'm sure you (will) have much better things to pass on to your children and grand children other than hatred towards Turks. Didn't Armenian hating Turks wipe out Armenians in Turkey? If you reproduce the same kind of hatred what will be your difference from the murdering rapist Turk? Do you really believe Turks can be civilised enough to admit to the truth? If you do not then will you hate Turks forever? What sort of life will that be?

Have you ever thought of not hating but maybe building relationships on a more personal level to understand the "other" better. Hating will not heal old wounds, nor will revenge. Hate and revenge can only make you more un-human and will lead to no consolation. The Turkish governments recognition of the Armenian Genocide is also no consolation if it happens before Turkish people believe in it. And hating these people will not make them understand you better.

[Hovik]

Let me tell you this: YES, I DO HATE TURKS! And I’m not hiding it! Also, I will teach my children to hate Turks. Till the day Turks admit to all the crimes and the genocide that was committed against my ancestors, and return all our stolen homes and lands, and ask for apology. SO LEARN TO DEAL WITH THAT!!!!!

Re, I respect your opinion, but my feelings differ greatly.

Hatred only clouds, creates confusion and hinders ability in all things. Turks have hated us for millenia, it drove them to commit Genocide and yet they didn't accomplish their goals. We have a thriving homeland, a diaspora that, to the immense frustration of Turks, continues to demand justice with exponential force, and new generations of diasporans and Hayastancis that are uniting and becoming more and more active in their culture and nation despite their environments - this is what love has gotten us. Sure we lost 90% of our homeland, and so many lives, my family lost all of that too, but hatred isn't going to help me get it back. Let us take a look at the first instance of Armenians gaining land in centuries: From all the reading I have done on the "Karabagh" war, I doubt hatred was one of the factors instumental in Armenians regaining our historical homeland in Artsakh, yet determination, passion and justice come to mind. There are a lot of feelings I have toward Turks, but I am always vigilant in keeping Hatred out of that list. When I have the opportunity to appoach a Turk, I always do so with kindness and friendship, I do anything I can to build bridges and dialogue. I feel that whether the justice I desire ends up with just an apology, or material reparations or both, it has to start with avoiding hatred.

I am expecting to have a baby girl in March, my first born child. I will teach her to love all people regardless of color, nation or background. I will tell her the histories that Armenians and Turks have together - both good and bad. I will tell her the truths of the Armenian Genocide, of the brutality that our family dealt with, but I will also teach her how some Armenians attempted to "get even" by killing unarmed Turks - acts which were in vain. I am never afraid to address issues from both sides that may seem to others "uncomfortable". I will teach my daughter to pity denialists of all kinds wether they are Jewish Holocaust deniers, Irish potato famine deniers, or Armenian Genocide deniers. This will allow her to think clearly, rationally and have the ability to approach such matters with the ability to make a change instead of drowning in hatred and impeding the national cause.

As a child I wasn't taught to have any specific feelings toward Turks. My parents didn't even know about the history except general facts, but they didn't care either. So everything I know about being an Armenian, Armenian History and everything in between I learned my self. When I came to know about the Armenian Genocide which I later found out (by my own research) claimed the lives of 8 close relatives, and that Turks continue to deny the fact, I became a little uneasy. I thought "If they deny, and refuse to apologize for an act the world knows they did, then how can we trust them even now?" This is a great point!

I just had a German friend stay with my wife and I for two weeks, we talked about the Holocaust and Germanys current policies. Given the kind of apology, restitution, and new attitudes Germans have towards Jews and the State of Israel, I would find it hard to believe that there are too many Jews worried about a second German-perpetrated Holocaust against them in the forseeable future. If you so much as make a nazi-joke in the presence of Germans most of them will either shout you out of the room or give you a beating. Most Turks cannot comprehend this sort of turn-around in reconciliatory policy and the stength, integrity and justice it has taken Germans and Germany to confront their past.

Denialism is a tactic that can be very worrisome and frightening for others, especially the victims of the act in which they are in denial. I will teach my daughter to be friendly, but remember that until Turks and Turkey address the issue openly and sincerely she cannot feel at complete ease or safety.

I can understand how you feel. I can understand how the frustration with this kind of behavior can drive any of us to hate these people with relative ease, but I don't think it is productive to our cause, and I beg you not to pass it on to your children - it will eat them their entire lives.

I hope you will sow the seeds of passion of our cause in your children, this will make them productive members of our nation; teach them to befriend Turks, but never trust those who deny their past, until they reconcile.

[TurQ]

I am delighted to read some of the comments below.

Though I oppose other points like assumptions about Turks hating Armenians for millenia. This pre-assumption allows to craft history to official Armenian thesis. If there exists 1000 years of hatred towards Armenians this wont go whatever happens. Today Turkish anger, rage or uneasiness mainly centers around land claims by Tashnaks, Karabag events and ignorance lack of relations for decades. This does not to say Armenians are loved, but to say that Turkish Armenian relations are pretty much different from German-Jewish relations and totally unrelated.
I think an average Turk wouldnt have much to say about an Armenian if their conservation is not political. The tension is mostly due to political climate and the land claims.
I personally can not accept that we Turks had a 1000 year old hatred for Armenians( i have many counter examples for that). If you say this is denialism, I can go with that.

Today there are about 30,000 Armenian citizens are working in Turkey, many thousands are coming to spent vacation in south Turkey, eventhough there is an embargo and no diplomatic ties. Eventhough there is an increased tension in relations and Karabag events these 30,000 Armenian citizens go on earning their lives and bread from Turkey and Turkish businesses. IF there was a wide spread, German/Nazi like hatred towards Armenians could this really happen?

Let me ask another question: Could the reverse can happen? Would you think 30,000 Turkish citizen feel the same comfort in Armenia? I am not talking about finding jobs, lets assume only the tourists. Do you think Turks would feel the same comfort in Armenia?

PS: Karabag is war about revange and hatred, and control of land. If it was totally a passion (For Armenians)this passion wouldnt be problem caused by Karabag Clique to Armenian citizens and Armenian politics.
This passion caused the murder of your own Prime Minister several years ago.
Such a passionate group( or heros they would call)stormed the parliment and killed their own prime minister.

Re, I respect your opinion, but my feelings differ greatly.

I feel:
Hatred only clouds, creates confusion and hinders ability in all things. Turks have hated us for millenia, it drove them to commit Genocide and yet they didn't accomplish their goals. We have a thriving homeland, a diaspora that, to the immense frustration of Turks, continues to demand justice with exponential force, and new generations of diasporans and Hayastancis that are uniting and becoming more and more active in their culture and nation despite their environments - this is what love has gotten us. Sure we lost 90% of our homeland, and so many lives, my family lost all of that too, but hatred isn't going to help me get it back. From all the reading I have done on the "Karabagh" war, I doubt hatred was one of the factors instumental in Armenians regaining our historical homeland in Artsakh, yet determination, passion and justice come to mind. There are a lot of feelings I have toward Turks, but I am always vigilant in keeping Hatred out of that list. When I have the opportunity to appoach a Turk, I always do so with kindness and friendship, I do anything I can to build bridges and dialogue. I feel that whether the justice I desire ends up with just an apology, or material reparations or both, it has to start with avoiding hatred.

I am expecting to have a baby girl in March, my first born child. I will teach her to love all people regardless of color, nation or background. I will tell her the histories that Armenians and Turks have together - both good and bad. I will tell her the truths of the Armenian Genocide, of the brutality that our family dealt with, but I will also teach her how some Armenians attempted to "get even" by killing unarmed Turks - acts which were in vain. I am never afraid to address issues from both sides that may seem to others "uncomfortable". I will teach my daughter to pity denialists of all kinds wether they are Jewish Holocaust deniers, Irish potato famine deniers, or Armenian Genocide deniers. This will allow her to think clearly, rationally and have the ability to approach such matters with the ability to make a change instead of drowning in hatred and impeding the national cause.

As a child I wasn't taught to have any specific feelings toward Turks. My parents didn't even know about the history except general facts, but they didn't care either. So everything I know about being an Armenian, Armenian History and everything in between I learned my self. When I came to know about the Armenian Genocide which I later found out (by my own research) claimed the lives of 8 close relatives, and that Turks continue to deny the fact I became a little uneasy. I thought "If they deny, and refuse to apologize for an act the world knows they did, then how can we trust them even now?" This is a great point!

I just had a German friend stay with my wife and I for two weeks, we talked about the Holocaust and Germanys current policies. Given the kind of apology, restitution, and new attitudes Germans have towards Jews and the State of Israel, I would find it hard to believe that there are too many Jews worried about a second German-perpetrated Holocaust against them in the forseeable future. If you so much as make a nazi-joke in the presence of Germans most of them will either shout you out of the room or give you a beating. Most Turks cannot comprehend this sort of turn-around in reconciliatory policy and the stength, integrity and justice it has taken Germans and Germany to confront their past.

Denialism is a tactic that can be very worrisome and frightening for others, especially the victims of the act in which they are in denial. I will teach my daughter to be friendly, but remember that until Turks and Turkey address the issue openly and sincerely she cannot feel at complete ease or safety.

I can understand how you feel. I can understand how the frustration with this kind of behavior can drive any of us to hate these people with relative ease, but I don't think it is productive to our cause, and I beg you not to pass it on to your children - it will eat them their entire lives.

I hope you will sow the seeds of passion of our cause in your children, this will make them productive members of our nation; teach them to befriend Turks, but never trust those who deny their past, until they reconcile.

[TurQ]

By the way, Congratulations about your baby girl!...

May God give her a healthy, rightous, and a happy life...
May God let her grow up in a happy family with her parents..

I am expecting to have a baby girl in March, my first born child. I will teach her to love all people regardless of color, nation or background. I will tell her the histories that Armenians and Turks have together - both good and bad. I will tell her the truths of the Armenian Genocide, of the brutality that our family dealt with, but I will also teach her how some Armenians attempted to "get even" by killing unarmed Turks - acts which were in vain. I am never afraid to address issues from both sides that may seem to others "uncomfortable". I will teach my daughter to pity denialists of all kinds wether they are Jewish Holocaust deniers, Irish potato famine deniers, or Armenian Genocide deniers. This will allow her to think clearly, rationally and have the ability to approach such matters with the ability to make a change instead of drowning in hatred and impeding the national cause.

As a child I wasn't taught to have any specific feelings toward Turks. My parents didn't even know about the history except general facts, but they didn't care either. So everything I know about being an Armenian, Armenian History and everything in between I learned my self. When I came to know about the Armenian Genocide which I later found out (by my own research) claimed the lives of 8 close relatives, and that Turks continue to deny the fact, I became a little uneasy. I thought "If they deny, and refuse to apologize for an act the world knows they did, then how can we trust them even now?" This is a great point!

I just had a German friend stay with my wife and I for two weeks, we talked about the Holocaust and Germanys current policies. Given the kind of apology, restitution, and new attitudes Germans have towards Jews and the State of Israel, I would find it hard to believe that there are too many Jews worried about a second German-perpetrated Holocaust against them in the forseeable future. If you so much as make a nazi-joke in the presence of Germans most of them will either shout you out of the room or give you a beating. Most Turks cannot comprehend this sort of turn-around in reconciliatory policy and the stength, integrity and justice it has taken Germans and Germany to confront their past.

Denialism is a tactic that can be very worrisome and frightening for others, especially the victims of the act in which they are in denial. I will teach my daughter to be friendly, but remember that until Turks and Turkey address the issue openly and sincerely she cannot feel at complete ease or safety.

I can understand how you feel. I can understand how the frustration with this kind of behavior can drive any of us to hate these people with relative ease, but I don't think it is productive to our cause, and I beg you not to pass it on to your children - it will eat them their entire lives.

I hope you will sow the seeds of passion of our cause in your children, this will make them productive members of our nation; teach them to befriend Turks, but never trust those who deny their past, until they reconcile.