One voice, revenge, hate...

[hitite]

To my learned fellow Heathenpride,

You certainly come across educated and in sound moral foundation, but your argument is utterly flawed:

1- How many of your ancestors were massacred in cold blood due to their ethnicity during the Armenian Genocide? Your answer is none! Therefore, you lack the emotional sensitivity to grasp the chore issue my friend, which issue is a Genocide which the Turkish Nation has persistently refused and is refusing to recognize. And your superficial references to music and etc. remain exactly that, superficial!

2- As I said, you come across cultured, but as you know, you are in extreme minority among Turks and, as I suspect, you do not have much to relate to your own roots, as you, rightfully, will cherish the opportunity to live in US or Western Europe! Tell me I am wrong!

3- Tell me, deep inside, you do believe in Individual rights, Civil Liberties, Freedom of Speech, social values which elevate a man to a “free man”? Tell me, are you proud of your Turkish past or present standards on Exercise (not pretence of exercise) of such Human Liberties? Can you tell why so many of your countrymen, as soon as they acquire some education are destined to live elsewhere, but Turkey? My opinion is that this is because Turkish Civilization and Culture is flawed and hollow from within, just like an apple that has a warm inside. It is not if the apple will rot to surface, but when! And should you decide to enlighten me with answers, then kindly also tell me what is the cultural significance of the Turkish word “AYOB” to a Turk?

Sue I think heathenpride is struggling to hand out an olive branch / peace pipe or whatever. Even though his argument may be flawed I do not think it is utterly flawed.

1- His references to music and other cultural aspects may be simple but definately not superficial. Things like this may be the only means to bring Turks and Armenians to a better understanding of eachother. I personally think cultural ties may be one of the most important tools for the REAL recognition of the genocide by the Turkish people. F**K the Turkish Government for a sec. and lets concentrate on the real people.

2- Cultured people are an extreme minority in most nations including Turkish and Armenian. Your comment number two (2) which generalizes Turks as uncultured can only support Heathens prejudice that most Armenians are rascist. You should be more careful how you portray Armenians the majority of whom are not rascist (which by saying so portrays one of Heathens flaws). And by the way who from any poor country doesnt want to live in the US or Europe?

3- Turkish Civilization and Culture is certainly flawed and hollow. How many civilizations are left on this planet that are not? Where would you put American culture? Where would you put Armenian culture? Cultures IMHO have slowly started to merge, with TV, music, internet, easy travel etc. and this is changing many cultures. To the better or worse I do not know. But when saying they are flawed and hollow I actually am referring to this change.

[sue35205]

My good fellow hitite,

1-

....I personally think cultural ties may be one of the most important tools for the REAL recognition of the genocide by the Turkish people. .....

Such cultural ties have existed for thousands of years, before the genocide, after the genocide, during the Ataman Empire, and even during Islamisation of Turkey, which cultural exchange shadowed by prejudice and close mindedness which is associated with Islamist perception of Turkish-Moslems toward non-Moslems, is moot, at the best, since such exchange is not founded on equal standings and respect, but on perceived impression of riches over week.

2-

Cultured people are an extreme minority in most nations including Turkish and Armenian……

That which seeds in the chore of all people is their respective language which marks their soul and identity in the eyes of the others. This seed in the Turkish chore is illuminated through existence of a special word, “AYOB”, which marks all non-Turk Moslems as dirty. I do not think that word exists in Armenian or any Western language, yielding the point that you can not compare apples and nails with each other, since they are different from the chore!

3-

......How many civilizations are left on this planet that are not? Where would you put American culture?

Perception of Flawed may be due to limitations of such perception. America is founded on Laws and a Constitution which assure not only rights of minorities against the majority, but also individual citizen’s rights against the establishment. And, when you add freedom of speech and other civil liberties that Americans have under their laws, the merits of your question seems flawed. You can say, for the first time in the history of mankind, in America, a citizen has the right to stand up against the establishment, because individual’s rights weight the same in the scale of justice to that of the entire establishment.


4. And if the said does not resolve the issue, then click this.

[hitite]

My good fellow hitite,

1-
Such cultural ties have existed for thousands of years, before the genocide, after the genocide, during the Ataman Empire, and even during Islamisation of Turkey, which cultural exchange shadowed by prejudice and close mindedness which is associated with Islamist perception of Turkish-Moslems toward non-Moslems, is moot, at the best, since such exchange is not founded on equal standings and respect, but on perceived impression of riches over week.

2-

That which seeds in the chore of all people is their respective language which marks their soul and identity in the eyes of the others. This seed in the Turkish chore is illuminated through existence of a special word, “AYOB”, which marks all non-Turk Moslems as dirty. I do not think that word exists in Armenian or any Western language, yielding the point that you can not compare apples and nails with each other, since they are different from the chore!

3-
Perception of Flawed may be due to limitations of such perception. America is founded on Laws and a Constitution which assure not only rights of minorities against the majority, but also individual citizen’s rights against the establishment. And, when you add freedom of speech and other civil liberties that Americans have under their laws, the merits of your question seems flawed. You can say, for the first time in the history of mankind, in America, a citizen has the right to stand up against the establishment, because individual’s rights weight the same in the scale of justice to that of the entire establishment.


4. And if the said does not resolve the issue, then click this.

Dear Sue,

1- What you're saying while quoting my post is irrelevant and actually hard to understand. While I say songs, food, films etc. may be a means to start relations between Turks and Armenians since they have quite a lot in common you are getting into some incomprehensible islamist perception issue and tie it to the expression of the year: "perceived impression of riches over week". Sorry but I really had difficulty following you.

2- What is a "Turkish Chore"? If you mean the core, or something like "what is deep down inside Turkish national identy" then it may make sense. ITs funny that there is no word in Turkish as AYOB:

http://www.seslisozluk.com/?word=ayob

Maybe you mean ayip: http://www.seslisozluk.com/?word=ayıp

...which simply means shameful. It has no culturally deep meaning which suggests the degrading of a non-muslim or non-Turk. The word "Gavur" may have been a better example as a racially, religiously or ethnically degrading word, words which also exist in USA, a country you desrcibe is at the peak of civilisation and human rights who have a stash of words for nearly every religion and race. Just check out: http://gyral.blackshell.com/names.html

3- I agree with you that USA has one of the better legal systems which gives great importance to individual rights. Rather than my "limitation" of perception it was my "choice of perception" that made me give USA as an example to the cultural change the world is going through. USA also is not perfect if you look at the recent news about torture in Iraq and tratment of people at Guantanamo. I was merely trying to say that all cultures are flawed in the sense that they are not pure, cultures have been effecting eachother whith an increasing pace in this fast technological era. And please dont try to tell us that American culture is the best you can get. just have a look at the thousands of years old Armenian culture and compare it to American culture (not the legal system) and see what you get.

4- That link requires registration so tough luck.

[imported_Hellektor]

Same Turk, Different Odor...

I am generally reading the articles and comments which are posting by Armenians all over the world and what can i see is, unfortunatly, Armenians all over the worlds are generally more racists then Turkish people.

It is stupefying that while you claim you read the articles, you repeat the same parrot song we have been hearing since times unknown.
The fact that I am going to copy/paste most of what follows, reflects the predictability of Turkish posters, for starters:
As far as racism is concerned, you say yourself that:

I am a Turkish citizen who has a Kurdish father and a Turkish mother living in Istanbul. And I have some Armenian relatives on my other side who lives here in Istanbul.

This is my own opinion and it might not be shared by all.
Racism is a strictly Western European thing and comes from the fear of becoming darker in outward features, period.
The Armenian Genocide was not because Armenians looked very differently from the rest of the subjects. It was because they were Christians and by definition not Turkish.
Again, the religious issue shouldn't be confused with the existing Islam/West conflict. It's only because by being Christians, even though their language and names were taken from them and replaced with Turkish, they were still non-Turks.
So what is a Turk according to MHO?
The reality is that "Turk" is a concept, a new nationality; the process of becoming a nation has not been accomplished yet. The Turk is a Muslim who speaks Turkish and believes he/she is a Turk. The DNA composition is totally irrelevant.
Turks of today are not a race. They are a result of the systematic or otherwise, forced Turkification throughout the Ottoman Rule, whether you like it or not.

Just last night evening, i was in Istiklâl Street and in one music shop a greek music was playing and after 100 metre, i have heard the Armenian version on "Sari Gelin". It's orginally an Armenian folk song but Turkish people know that song too of its Turkish version. The district where i live, Kartal, where has 20 km distance by Bosphorus has an Armenian Church which is standing tall.

What about more than 2000 churches and ancient monasteries that have been savagely destroyed since the Armenian Genocide, to hide all evidence of the Armenians being the indigenous people of the region, just like a serial killer destroying all evidence of the existence of their victims?

And Armenian kids can actually study in their schools and generally the population of Armenians are very richer than Turkish people. After Armenia, Turkey is the country where have the Armenians schools as most in the world.

I don't know about that. Here in Iran we have many Armenian schools and I believe more than in Turkey. But has it ever occured to you that the land you occupy does not belong to you? Does it ever trouble your conscience that you have usurped 90% of our home, where there should be at least 30 million Armenians, living prosperously in their homeland of thousands of years, where millions of kids would go to their schools?

My mother is from the city Antakya, and there is one town which has an Armenian mayor who is Christian.

"Antakya"... Thracia, Caesarea, Cilicia, Constantinople, Adrianapolis, Angora, Smyrna, Van, Ardvin, Ani, Ararat... Do you even realize that not a single square nanometer of what you call Turkey belongs to you? Does it not bother you at all that you have evicted the landlord, have never paid a penny rent, instead you have taxed the landlord to fill your stomachs, you have used our women to procreate, you have stolen our kids and have used them to fight your wars, you have used us to build your goddamn "empire" and in the end when you did not need us anymore (or so you thought) you slaughtered us and threw us out of our home?

And again in Antayla, in "Azhab-i Keyf" where has the first church in the world, people, both muslems and christians are praying for god in same place for hundreds of years.

Then why pray tell, you have been destroying our churches and cemeteries in occupied Armenia?
Here a copy/paste paragraph from my replies:
Over 95% out of at least 2200 working Armenian churches accounted for in 1912 are now destroyed. Is this tolerance or a cover up for the despicable crime of the Armenian Genocide? According to a 1974 UNESCO account, from the 913 monuments still standing after the genocide 464 were totally destroyed, 252 were turned in ruins and 197 needed serious restoration.

Here in Istanbul, there is a mosque in Ortaköy which is built by an Armenian artitecht and just near it, there is a synagogue.

Unfortunately a thread named "Armenia?" was deleted. I would hope the mods would bring it back, so that I could give you a link to show you how many of your mosques and palaces were built by Armenians. Does Sinan or Balian family ring a bell?

During the XIII. century, while jewish and arabian people were killing in Spain, the Ottoman sultan Suleiman has welcomed arabian people to istanbul. but when he sees that Jewish people are under trouble too, he decides to take them too here to istanbul.

I believe you have seen the images of Hitler caressing the dog. So what?
Although irrelevant to our topic, what were the Arabs doing in Spain?
I have heard this before, mainly in Jewish forums to persuade the normal Jews to give up the recognition of the Armenian Genocide.
What about the diabolical practice of Janissary that went on for 5 centuries?
Does letting some Jews in a long time ago, put you off the hook?
Does it make the Armenian Genocide go away? Give me a break.

Ottomans can be consired as barbarians for some people but it's another truth that they have suffered a lot. In balkans, Kont Vlad, Kazikli Voyvoda or with his legendery name, Drakula has been killed many turkish people in weird ways.

WTF
Your barbaric ancestors invaded our home and brought nothing other than death, destruction, subjugation, terror, rape, slavery, stealing of women and children and genocide. When did you suffer? What the hell were you doing in the Balkans? What were you doing in my home? If it doesn't please you then go back to the hell you come from.

While the collution of Ottomans, many Turkish people have been killed in Balcans but in Arabian countries too. My grandfather's father have fighed against Arabians and England in Yemen and he was one of a few person who could return back to his home. But just after it, in another battle, he had to face against Russians.

Serves them right. The people under occupation have all the right to throw the tyrannical occupiers out. Here another of my copy/paste replies:

What do you think of the Palestinians who blow themselves up in busses, game arcades, bazaars, schools, restaurants, etc. killing and maiming indiscriminately?

When have the Vietnamese apologized to Americans for what the Viet-Kong did to them?

Do the Arab world apologize for the atrocities committed by the insurgency when they behead people in front of cameras, drag charred and mutilated bodies of Americans in the streets and hang them from bridges?

Haven’t you read, seen or heard how the allies raped and killed the Germans and treated them like rats and insects when they defeated them in WWII?

And what the old people who lived these years, they say many Armenian people have been killed by we turks in that chaos.

The same "it was war, people died" crap, again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again...
Denial is a disease. If you want to be considered civilized then throw this cliché nagationist garbage out and face your goddamn, ugly history.
It was not a chaos. It was an organized genocide.
For your information, check this link, where a bibliography of almost a thousand studies is represented that deal only with the genocide of 1894 - 1897 by Abdulhamid.

It was not war, but people died.

But it's still diffrent from how Nazi's acted to Jews, because it was not systematicly. Also, Armenians guerillas were well gunned and they really have thousands of Turkish people too. During that years it's right many Armenian people have died becasuse of starvation but it was same for the turkish people in anatolia.

Get out. You make me sick.
Read The Key Distortions and Falsehoods in the Denial of the Armenian Genocide before you post this regurgitated, putrefied, stinking defecation.

But what i see is that, most of Armenian people are just looking for a way to damage Turkish image in the world. It's making us sad that you are showing like all of we Turkish people are murderers.

What image? Turkey is founded on lies and genocide and everyone knows it.

Check the definition number 4

I would like all you to visit Turkey before talking about here and Turkish people.

Doesn't make the genocide go away.

Just last summer, here, i have welcomed a group of greek people. and they really suprised to see that turkish people were really so nice and warm to them.

Doesn't make the genocide go away.

Our relations should be based on to meet, the first thing should not be the query of us because of the events what happened one century ago.

State brainwash crap. Doesn't make the genocide go away.
Besides, first of all you have to give us our home back.

I hate the topic of "we" and "others".

You are not making any sense.

I am, personally a world citizen and i can never fell like an enemy of someone because of the other person's politic view or race.

It's not about individuals. It's about the collective and yours has a lot to be ashamed of.

[Reincarnated Am]

It is stupefying that while you claim you read the articles, you repeat the same parrot song we have been hearing since times unknown.
The fact that I am going to copy/paste most of what follows, reflects the predictability of Turkish posters, for starters:
As far as racism is concerned, you say yourself that:

This is my own opinion and it might not be shared by all.
Racism is a strictly Western European thing and comes from the fear of becoming darker in outward features, period.
The Armenian Genocide was not because Armenians looked very differently from the rest of the subjects. It was because they were Christians and by definition not Turkish.
Again, the religious issue shouldn't be confused with the existing Islam/West conflict. It's only because by being Christians, even though their language and names were taken from them and replaced with Turkish, they were still non-Turks.
So what is a Turk according to MHO?
The reality is that "Turk" is a concept, a new nationality; the process of becoming a nation has not been accomplished yet. The Turk is a Muslim who speaks Turkish and believes he/she is a Turk. The DNA composition is totally irrelevant.
Turks of today are not a race. They are a result of the systematic or otherwise, forced Turkification throughout the Ottoman Rule, whether you like it or not.


What about more than 2000 churches and ancient monasteries that have been savagely destroyed since the Armenian Genocide, to hide all evidence of the Armenians being the indigenous people of the region, just like a serial killer destroying all evidence of the existence of their victims?


I don't know about that. Here in Iran we have many Armenian schools and I believe more than in Turkey. But has it ever occured to you that the land you occupy does not belong to you? Does it ever trouble your conscience that you have usurped 90% of our home, where there should be at least 30 million Armenians, living prosperously in their homeland of thousands of years, where millions of kids would go to their schools?


"Antakya"... Thracia, Caesarea, Cilicia, Constantinople, Adrianapolis, Angora, Smyrna, Van, Ardvin, Ani, Ararat... Do you even realize that not a single square nanometer of what you call Turkey belongs to you? Does it not bother you at all that you have evicted the landlord, have never paid a penny rent, instead you have taxed the landlord to fill your stomachs, you have used our women to procreate, you have stolen our kids and have used them to fight your wars, you have used us to build your goddamn "empire" and in the end when you did not need us anymore (or so you thought) you slaughtered us and threw us out of our home?


Then why pray tell, you have been destroying our churches and cemeteries in occupied Armenia?
Here a copy/paste paragraph from my replies:
Over 95% out of at least 2200 working Armenian churches accounted for in 1912 are now destroyed. Is this tolerance or a cover up for the despicable crime of the Armenian Genocide? According to a 1974 UNESCO account, from the 913 monuments still standing after the genocide 464 were totally destroyed, 252 were turned in ruins and 197 needed serious restoration.


Unfortunately a thread named "Armenia?" was deleted. I would hope the mods would bring it back, so that I could give you a link to show you how many of your mosques and palaces were built by Armenians. Does Sinan or Balian family ring a bell?


I believe you have seen the images of Hitler caressing the dog. So what?
Although irrelevant to our topic, what were the Arabs doing in Spain?
I have heard this before, mainly in Jewish forums to persuade the normal Jews to give up the recognition of the Armenian Genocide.
What about the diabolical practice of Janissary that went on for 5 centuries?
Does letting some Jews in a long time ago, put you off the hook?
Does it make the Armenian Genocide go away? Give me a break.


WTF
Your barbaric ancestors invaded our home and brought nothing other than death, destruction, subjugation, terror, rape, slavery, stealing of women and children and genocide. When did you suffer? What the hell were you doing in the Balkans? What were you doing in my home? If it doesn't please you then go back to the hell you come from.


Serves them right. The people under occupation have all the right to throw the tyrannical occupiers out. Here another of my copy/paste replies:

What do you think of the Palestinians who blow themselves up in busses, game arcades, bazaars, schools, restaurants, etc. killing and maiming indiscriminately?

When have the Vietnamese apologized to Americans for what the Viet-Kong did to them?

Do the Arab world apologize for the atrocities committed by the insurgency when they behead people in front of cameras, drag charred and mutilated bodies of Americans in the streets and hang them from bridges?

Haven’t you read, seen or heard how the allies raped and killed the Germans and treated them like rats and insects when they defeated them in WWII?


The same "it was war, people died" crap, again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again...
Denial is a disease. If you want to be considered civilized then throw this cliché nagationist garbage out and face your goddamn, ugly history.
It was not a chaos. It was an organized genocide.
For your information, check this link, where a bibliography of almost a thousand studies is represented that deal only with the genocide of 1894 - 1897 by Abdulhamid.

It was not war, but people died.


Get out. You make me sick.
Read The Key Distortions and Falsehoods in the Denial of the Armenian Genocide before you post this regurgitated, putrefied, stinking defecation.


What image? Turkey is founded on lies and genocide and everyone knows it.

Check the definition number 4

Doesn't make the genocide go away.


Doesn't make the genocide go away.


State brainwash crap. Doesn't make the genocide go away.
Besides, first of all you have to give us our home back.


You are not making any sense.


It's not about individuals. It's about the collective and yours has a lot to be ashamed of.

[Kharpert]

Cosmos2:

Choo choo! Do you hear that? It's the blame train coming your way!

Americans have recognized and have apologized for the genocide of the Native American people. Native Americans are liable for reparations and they have a distinct advantage in college admissions and application for financial aid. They are also entitled to specific reservations. While this is an atrocity, its better than what the Turks did to Armenians: attempt to kill every single one, destroy the evidence, and deny it ever happened.

Throughout the history of slavery in America, there have been hundreds of thousands who have actively opposed it. Read up on the abolitionist movement before you make such ignorant statements, and understand that since 1860, slavery has been outlawed and all the rights of blacks restored. Even now, the policy of affirmative action is being debated to assist blacks in getting jobs and college education. This is better than how the Turks have treated the Kurds

An racist organization in Turkey? Hmmmh...what about the Young Turks? Does genocide count as racism? Oh, and what about the Grey Wolves? Sounds racist to me. Now before I continue, do you realize that the Ku-Klux-Klan has never in its history represented more than 0.01% of the American people? Has it occured to you that there are there are fewer racial tensions in Turkey because 75% are Turks, and 99% are muslim? Are you convinced there's no racial tension between Kurds and Turks?

You cannot conduct a genocide with 2-3 racist men. The entire Turkish nation took part in eliminating all the Armenians in Turkey, with a very select few who tried to save them. Racism exists everywhere, and that most definitely includes Turkey as well. Talaat and Cemal spearheaded the entire genocide, and Cemal is responsible for the death of over 700,000 Kurds. So yes, they are racist!

The reasons for the Armenian Genocide of 1915 are very clear. The main reason is that Turkey needed someone to blame for losing the war, and therefore they chose to blame the Armenians. The genocide didn't start for no reason, and Turks weren't "waiting".

Go look up "nationalist" in a dictionary. If they wre Ottomanist, then they loved their country, which means that they were nationalist. In fact, go look up "racist" in the dictionary too, right after "fascist." If you need to deport non-muslims to create a homogenous state by deporting and killing off all the Armenians, then that is a racist, fascist, and genocidal policy.

So congratulations. While you tried to throw xxxx on the United States, all you've done is uncovered all the things that Turkey has done that are even worse. Your twisted view of both Western and Eastern history has left the discussion totally moot.

Case closed.

[sue35205]

Dear Sue,

1- What you're saying while quoting my post is irrelevant and actually hard to understand. While I say songs, food, films etc. may be a means to start relations between Turks and Armenians since they have quite a lot in common you are getting into some incomprehensible islamist perception issue and tie it to the expression of the year: "perceived impression of riches over week". Sorry but I really had difficulty following you.

2- What is a "Turkish Chore"? If you mean the core, or something like "what is deep down inside Turkish national identy" then it may make sense. ITs funny that there is no word in Turkish as AYOB:

http://www.seslisozluk.com/?word=ayob

Maybe you mean ayip: http://www.seslisozluk.com/?word=ayıp

...which simply means shameful. It has no culturally deep meaning which suggests the degrading of a non-muslim or non-Turk. The word "Gavur" may have been a better example as a racially, religiously or ethnically degrading word, words which also exist in USA, a country you desrcibe is at the peak of civilisation and human rights who have a stash of words for nearly every religion and race. Just check out: http://gyral.blackshell.com/names.html

3- I agree with you that USA has one of the better legal systems which gives great importance to individual rights. Rather than my "limitation" of perception it was my "choice of perception" that made me give USA as an example to the cultural change the world is going through. USA also is not perfect if you look at the recent news about torture in Iraq and tratment of people at Guantanamo. I was merely trying to say that all cultures are flawed in the sense that they are not pure, cultures have been effecting eachother whith an increasing pace in this fast technological era. And please dont try to tell us that American culture is the best you can get. just have a look at the thousands of years old Armenian culture and compare it to American culture (not the legal system) and see what you get.

4- That link requires registration so tough luck.

My good fellow hitite,

3- Glad that you conceded on this issue(#3), generally. Bear in mind that entitlements of the U.S. Constitution and civil liberties are bestowed upon citizens of the U.S.A., not foreign nationals, and much less to those who are construed as, “illegal combatants”. However, I admit that association with justified imposition of degradation or pain on another being with an expressed purpose of extracting confessions has diminished America. And, that is thanks to:
<---Ayip.

2- Pardon me, since I am not a Turkish Phonics expert. Subtleties such as “Ayob” / “Ayip” are linguistic hummer to a good Turk such as yourself, but this linguistic interpretation is analogous to linguistic hummer in the word “NIGER” or the graphic hummer in the respectively to a Black or a Jew.

1- What I am saying is a Shepard may have a fantastic “relation” with the sheep, but since that relation is not based on equality and mutual respect, the sheep is destined to be slaughtered by the Shepard.

0- Click on this

PS: Tell me I am wroung:

[hitite]

... to a good Turk such as yourself...

Who told you I was a Turk ????

[Reincarnated Am]

So far Turkey's doing very good to disgrace itself

Hellektor sends Reincarnated masturbates, Reincarnated sends Kellektor masturbates. You are making fun of Turkish society. How long it will continue? Assuming that, you succeded to disgrace Turkey completely in front of the all world. What will your advantages be then? You will say, ‘’we are actually ciritisizing the Turkey, we respect the Turkish people.’’ Yes, yes I see.

Hellektor must find more shamefull things for Turks and Reincarnated must go to church and pray more then maybe Turkey recognizes the AG.

[Vogelgrippe]

Below are few lines addressed in Turkish, to Turkish, and Turkish-speaking members of this forum. I provided the exact English translation (or my best effort) in order to abide by forum rules:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Elendil, Cosmos

Kusura bakmayin, bence Ermenilere yapilana soykirim da denebilir. Birlesmis Milletler soykirimi illa bir milletin tamaminin yokedilmesi olarak tanimlamiyor. Kismen yokedilmesi veya yokedilmeye calismasi da soykirimdir diyor. Biz de su 'surgun' demeye bayildigimiz olaylar sirasinda Osmanli Ermenilerinin en az yarisinin oldugunu inkar etmeyelim artik.

Gelgelelim bizim (bireysel veya resmi olarak) bunu tanimamiz Turk dusmanlarinin kalbindeki kini, nefreti, fesatligi azaltirmi? Bence azaltmaz. Burda Hellektor ve Reincarnated Am’in yazdiklari gosteriyor ki adamlar soykirim taninmasin tum kalpleriyle nefret ediyorlar. Yuz yil once yapilan hata duzeltilse bile bin yil once yapilan biseyi bulur yine nefret ederler.

Sorry, according to my opinion the attrocities committed against Armenians can be called genocide. United Nations doesn’t define genocide as the total extermination of a nation. It defines a partial annihilation or an attempt for annihilation also as genocide. Let us not deny that at least half of Ottoman Armenians perished during what we love to call 'deportations'

But the question is, does the (individual or official) recognition of genocide alleviates the hate, anger, and rancor in the hearts of Turkhaters? I don’t think so. Here the postings of Hellektor and Reincarnated Am show that they hate everything Turkish with their whole hearts, regardless of genocide recognition.Even if a mistake committed a century ago is corrected, they come up with something supposedly done thousand years ago, and keep on hating.