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Originally posted by pirate
None of them died from "epidemic diseases".
The men were beheaded, and the woman was deported to the Syrian dessert and they never heard of her again!
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Don't tell me how my family members died. Ok?
None of them died from "epidemic diseases".
The men were beheaded, and the woman was deported to the Syrian dessert and they never heard of her again! -
Diagnosis: Denial You are officially infected!Originally posted by pirateComment
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Listen son,if your going to stick around in this forum you dont start by proving your a denialist by choosing idiotic words like "Emmigrated".That right there tells me your a agitator to this forum.If you dont like the premise of this "ARMENIAN GENOCIDE" Forum then dont join.That s why i think newbie's first study past posts first before they declare denialist remarks.Kemal does an excellent job of this he still states the truth's he believes and we can agree to disagree and some times we even agree now thats the real Turk!Originally posted by pirate
When i said every survivor lost at least a few of their family members to the massacres i was trying to show the minimum for mathematical purposes but in fact in my family the count was much higher e.g.my grandmother from Bursa (which is very close to Istanbul) was the only survivor from a 150 unit family.Of course its diffucult to get exact numbers all you can do see whats there and count backwords ,its not scientific but it will give you at least the neighborhood of the numbers.I never heard of Armenians massacring the Turk population until the past year never all my life in any disscusion with anyone including many Turkish friends this was raised so you must understand if i'm sceptical on this."All truth passes through three stages:
First, it is ridiculed;
Second, it is violently opposed; and
Third, it is accepted as self-evident."
Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)Comment
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Thank you. This one is a hopeless case...Originally posted by Hovik
Now everyone, lets abandon his thread... after all, he can always go to the "Turkey's challenge" one and read our posts.Comment
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Hello Pirate. I'm new to this forum too, just like you. I've read your posts, and I think that you probably believe in what you're writing. I have some questions for you? Please list all of the non-Turkish books, articles and website that you have read regarding this matter. Where did you learn that 300,000 Muslim Turks were somehow killed by Armenian gangs? Earlier you said that only 1,160,000 Armenians lived in the Ottoman Empire. Wouldn't that mean that there were at most about 550,000 Armenian males, and probably about 250,000 fighting age Armenian males? Earlier you admitted that not all Armenians were guilty of treason and Kemal explained that only the guilty should have been punished. Out of those 250,000 fighting aged Armenian males, how many do you suppose were in these alleged guilty "Armenian gangs?" Let's be overly enthusiastic and say 25,000 of them. So do the numbers add up? Is it possible that 25,000 Armenian "gang men" could manage to get by one of the strongest militaries in the world at the time and kill 300,000 Turks? Does that make any sense to you? Have you ever stopped to think about your numbers? Do you ever question figures and arguments that you hear from Turkish sources, or is it only the non-Turkish sources that you scrutinize to death? Do you understand that the burden at this point is on you to disprove this event? The reason is that almost every single non-Turkish specialist in genocide and holocaust studies have concluded that this was a Genocide. So why should we believe the one group, Turks, who say it wasn't a Genocide when everyone else says it was a Genocide?Originally posted by pirate
If you went to 20 cancer specialists and they all said that the lump on your arse was cancer and then you went to your neighborhood butcher and he said that the lump on your arse isn't cancer and that you'll be fine after you take a big kaka, would you believe the 20 cancer specialists or your butcher? Of course you would rather believe your butchter, but it would not be rational to do so. Would you forgive us and the rest of the rational world if we proceed rationally and believe our doctors and not our butchers?Comment
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Mr. Patriot, I have two questions for you:
1. How does ASALA prove that there was no Genocide?
2. When is the last time that ASALA killed anyone, and does ASALA even still exist?Comment
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Thanks to phantom for being rational.
ASALA doesnt exist anymore, but a reality that took place in this Earth,so at least we agree about that right? Like Armenian events took place in the past. So Armenian people also doesnt say now that we kill Armenians at the moment. But they say it had happened. And ASALA events took place so obviously in the past,we all watched on tv and followed on newspapers.
Second is ASALA's purpose of create was putting pressure on Turkish community and take attention of all World for events that they think Ottoman Empire and their heir Turkey did against Armenians. Nobody talk about that, is it the way Armenians explain their case,I told about tha issue to point on that. And second is it hard to immagine Armenian gangs killed Turkish people during end of 19.cent.and begin of 20.cent. But I wont say that its proof of course there are written proofs, documents from 1900s about it.Comment
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These are both Turkish sources... you go as far as saying "we should file a Turkish genocide claim done by Armenians" and you have that two Turkish sites to support you? Well good luck with that. hahaha
Why don't you answer the question phantom asked you? List the sources you've read that gave you your knowledge about the genocide.Comment
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Ok, so we agree. ASALA does not in any way prove or disprove the reality of the Armenian Genocide. I believe ASALA targeted and killed something like 50 Turkish diplomats, and their activities abruptly ended in the early 80s. My understanding is that there was a backlash from the Armenian community against their activities, and this contributed to their demise. There was even an Armenian in Istanbul who killed himself by lighting himself on fire in protest to the murder of a Turkish diplomat.Originally posted by patriot2Comment
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Pirate, thank you for responding to my post. I asked you to list the NON-TURKISH articles, books, and Internet websites you have read, and all you listed was an article from Justic McCarthy and a Turkish website. I'm sure you know that Justin McCarthy is literally considered a joke in the academic community, because he does not use the scientific method. He is paid by the Turkish government to publish their conclusions. So he does not start from an objective standpoint and search for a conclusion. He starts from a conclusion and works backwards.
Regarind the 300,000 figure, you'll have to forgive me if I am still extremely skeptical, since such outlandish figures have never been substantiated by a non-Turkish source. If the only source for the conclusion that at least 1,000,000 Armenians were killed during the Genocide was an Armenian propoganda source, I would be equally skeptical. I hope you understand.
Regarding your last comment about Turkey's failure to publish its own view of history. I think you miss the point. Whether or not Turkey had published its own version of history would not have changed the conclusion that true academics would reach. That's because scientists don't form conclusions by looking at state propoganda. They form conclusions by researching first-hand archival documents, such as those in the U.S. State Department and German Archives. They look at first-hand accounts, not at what a government has to say about those accounts 40 years later. So Turkey's silence is irrelevant. The scientists have spoken, and they have almost unanimously concluded this was Genocide. So I guess I'm still confused as to why you think you know better than these experts, and why you think we should all believe you and the Turkish government over, for example, the International Assocation of Genocide Scholars. http://www.isg-iags.org/Comment
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