Definition of the term "Genocide"... for all the deniers out there, lets discuss!

[1.5 million]

I HATE ARABIC AND IRANIAN PEOPLE

sad - and you might wonder why some Armenians hate you and your people...anyway It is highly irrational and indicative of your immaturity hating entire ethnic groups of people for something that happened in the past - particualrly something so removed from any reality for you (not like it was your families who were killed - just people who desired to be free of the oppresive Ottoman yoke - so who really could blame them...)...anyway a typical display of feelings of Turkish inferiority turned to aggression...

[maral_m79]

I HATE ARABIC AND IRANIAN PEOPLE

Then you'll hate them more after this, have you ever heard of an Arab phelosopher/Historian Al Manfaluti lived in the 19th Century?!
He said " The THREE Plagues of the 19th centurey are: Turks, Lice and locust" and this is a very well known saying among Arabs

...for our religion to say somebody is not moslem is not suitable but they say "Turks are not moslem" because of this they have to suffer

You should be Thankful to Arabs, after all it's THEY who invented your religion, Muhamed was Arab in case you didn't know, or you thought he was a Turk too ?!

You want to punish them huh ? Classic. It's the only way Turks know to solve their problems.

[Tongue]

Everyone - lets stay on topic.


So that's it?
Any other Turkish member wants to participate in this thread?

[elendil]

I have had my say, Ramil did and doing, Kemal also did. There is noone left now is there?

[Tongue]

I have had my say,

Honestly, I didn't understand your say. You never replied to my last post. So the happening contradicts the meaning of the word genocide in what way again?

Kemal also did.

Kemal never posted in this thread.

[elendil]

oops you are right. Indeed I did not..I forgot, to be honest that it was left there

Ok, perhaps someone else used the word backstabbing. So you're saying they rebelled for independence. I explained to you why Armenians wanted independence, after hundreds of thousands of them were massacred by Sultan's regime. You didn't say anything about it.

First of all I would ask for the link. I know there were killings, clashes before the war but I did not know that the casualities were so high. I dont have much of information about events of the Sultan Abdülhamid thus I will make no comment about it...

Why didn't the Ottomans deport the Arabs (just like they did to Armenians) before they united with the English forces to defeat the Ottomans? Perhaps because they were Muslims. Don't you think so?

I do not think anyone seriously considered that Arab nation would betray us, selling a muslim race to a christian race even though there were clashes between ottoman army and some Arabic groups...But they did now did not they? Anyways that is why they were not deported I think...

And that's exactly why I'm saying what happened to the Armenians was genocide. Genocide: acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group. If Armenians were Muslims and not Christians, they would've never gone through what they did.

Would they not? I dont think so. A minority is a minority regardless of religion..

Oh please, you think deporting over one million people to the desert with no food, water, or shelter is a rational way to deal with some rebels? They wanted to get rid of them permanently, no doubt. We would be fooling ourselves if we said they thought otherwise or blame the death of all those innocent people on some rebels here and there.

If you leave the ethics to a side, yes it was a rational, effective course of action to stop any gang attack. Surely there are others to blame who are not
from Armenian gangs still I dont see the happenings as a genocide...

Apologies for the delay.....

[maral_m79]

First of all I would ask for the link.

Encyclopedia Enteries.
From the Encyclopedia of Genocide, Israel W. Charny, editor-in-chief, Santa Barbara, California: ABC-CLIO, 1999

Hamidian Massacres 1894-1896

http://www.armenian-genocide.org/hamidian.html

Adana Massacre 1909

http://www.armenian-genocide.org/adana.html

Armenian Genocide 1915-1923

http://www.armenian-genocide.org/genocide.html

------

Hamidian massacres Another Encyclopedia Source

http://www.reference.com/browse/wiki/Hamidian_massacres

I do not think anyone seriously considered that Arab nation would betray us, selling a muslim race to a christian race even though there were clashes between ottoman army and some Arabic groups...But they did now did not they? Anyways that is why they were not deported I think...

Arabs were not deported, although they were under Ottoman opression too, because of several reasons, to name few ;
(1) Arabs didn't live in a "Land" that forms an obstacle in the way of the "Pan-Turkc Empire" Dream.
(2) Arabs and Kurds, were muslims, with what excuse they will convince the soldiers to kill these people if they can't call them "Gavur" , althoug Arabs got the name "Khaen" = Traitor.
(3) Arabs, were not a minority my friend, Arab population was much more than the only 6 million Turks that lived in the Empire ....
(4) Arabs & Kurds were strong tribes, in spite of that they got their share of opression and prosecution.

If you leave the ethics to a side, yes it was a rational, effective course of action to stop any gang attack. Surely there are others to blame who are not from Armenian gangs still I dont see the happenings as a genocide...

You call the exile of an ENTIRE POPULATION of an ethnic group , an action to stop gang attacks ??!!!

Which "Gang" would the few months old babies will join ?!
Which "Gang" would the 6 years old children will join ?!
Which "Gang" would the 17 years old Brides will join ?!
Which "Gang" would the Pregnant women will join ?!
Which "Gang" would the 60 years old women will join ?!
Which "Gang" would the 70 years old men will join ?!
Which "Gang" would the ill, paralysed, blind, handicpas will join ?!
And others, and others ......

You need to answer all that, before you think of making excuses to deport this ENTIRE population, and send them to desert, To Die ....

Do you think that you can justify the Genocide ?! I don't think so

[Tongue]

Massacres of 1894-1897:

http://www.hyeetch.nareg.com.au/genocide/oppres_p4.html

[Tongue]

The massacres of 1890s are also mentioned in:

http://www.unitedhumanrights.org/Genocide/armenian_genocide.htm

[cosmos]

[QUOTE=maral_m79]

Then you'll hate them more after this, have you ever heard of an Arab phelosopher/Historian Al Manfaluti lived in the 19th Century?!
He said " The THREE Plagues of the 19th centurey are: Turks, Lice and locust" and this is a very well known saying among Arabs QUOTE]

The real plague is cotroversial Maral.

So, I must say Arabic-Islamic culture have caused poverty and mass of uneducated people to which state it has entered. It has prohibited the Arts, Phylosophy and Sciences you know. Look at all Muslim countries are with full of poor and old-fashioned people. And insulting words of Mohammed about Turks is an historical reality. This is not secret, if you want to believe, see this book; ‘’Arab Nationalism and Turks by Prof. Dr. Ilhan Arsel.’’(but I think available in Turkish only).

So, Ataturk and Turkish Republic means ‘’fighting against this reactionary culture.’’ But there are still admirer of this culture in Turkey like Erdogan.

The official aim of Arab-Islamic culture is to make all people islamized with ‘’cihad.’’ That is, killing the people for Islamizing isn’t a sin. But even if they accept the Islam they will not be real Muslims. Only Arabs can be real belivers of it according to them.

If they had a opportunity, they would have got the Armenians Islamized too undoubtedly. At least, Ottomans didn’t try this.