Definition of the term "Genocide"... for all the deniers out there, lets discuss!

[Tongue]

If they had a opportunity, they would have got the Armenians Islamized too undoubtedly. At least, Ottomans didn’t try this.

Have you heard about the 5% policy during the deportations? This was new to me too. Taner Akcam spoke about it at the UCLA genocide conference on Sunday. In order to assimilate the Armenians, they repopulated the Armenian villages with Muslim Turkish, Kurdish, Arab, etc. population however allowed only 5% of the village to remain Armenian. No more than 5%. They calculated that these remaining 5% will be assimilated in a decade if they live in an all Muslim neighborhood.

So it's not like they didn't try.

[elendil]

Arabs were not deported, although they were under Ottoman opression too, because of several reasons, to name few ;
(1) Arabs didn't live in a "Land" that forms an obstacle in the way of the "Pan-Turkc Empire" Dream.
(2) Arabs and Kurds, were muslims, with what excuse they will convince the soldiers to kill these people if they can't call them "Gavur" , althoug Arabs got the name "Khaen" = Traitor.
(3) Arabs, were not a minority my friend, Arab population was much more than the only 6 million Turks that lived in the Empire ....
(4) Arabs & Kurds were strong tribes, in spite of that they got their share of opression and prosecution.

I am sorry, I understood the deportion of Arabs from the geography that is now Turkey not Arabistan... That changes everything normally... So how would you expect us to deport Arabs actually where they were allied with English took out Ottoman Army's fighting force in Arabia itself. We had no such power over Arabs.....
1-) Yes they did not but it is irrevelant...
2-) The word "traitors of Islam" would be a pretty good propaganda motto dont you think?
3-) If we count Arabia, they are ofcourse not a minority...
4-) Arabs and Kurds were tribes.... They were not soliders and did not form armies.

You call the exile of an ENTIRE POPULATION of an ethnic group , an action to stop gang attacks ??!!!

Which "Gang" would the few months old babies will join ?!
Which "Gang" would the 6 years old children will join ?!
Which "Gang" would the 17 years old Brides will join ?!
Which "Gang" would the Pregnant women will join ?!
Which "Gang" would the 60 years old women will join ?!
Which "Gang" would the 70 years old men will join ?!
Which "Gang" would the ill, paralysed, blind, handicpas will join ?!
And others, and others ......

You need to answer all that, before you think of making excuses to deport this ENTIRE population, and send them to desert, To Die ....

Do you think that you can justify the Genocide ?! I don't think so

You are missing two points..
First I said..

Originally Posted by elendil
If you leave the ethics to a side, yes it was a rational, effective course of action to stop any gang attack. Surely there are others to blame who are not from Armenian gangs still I dont see the happenings as a genocide.

Second, when you leave ethics to a side it worked, Armenians could not form up gangs anymore.....
Are you getting angry on purpose Maral? I am saying leaving ethics to side, you are talking about children, old and the sick...

[Tongue]

I am saying leaving ethics to side, you are talking about children, old and the sick...

it's not about ethics... It's about capability. Do children, kids, women, pregnant women, and the old have the capability to form gangs? The answer is obvious. There was no need to deport and kill them.

[maral_m79]

So, I must say Arabic-Islamic culture have caused poverty and mass of uneducated people to which state it has entered. It has prohibited the Arts, Phylosophy and Sciences you know. Look at all Muslim countries are with full of poor and old-fashioned people. .

With all due respect cosmos, you seem to have NO idea about Arabs...
I'm not defending anyone here, but in the late times of the Arab-Islamic Empire , not prohibited but Encouraged and sought Arts, Music, Phylosophy and Sciences of all types...

Today's Islamists are the ones who want to retreate to pre-civilaization era.

The official aim of Arab-Islamic culture is to make all people islamized with ‘’cihad.’’ That is, killing the people for Islamizing isn’t a sin. But even if they accept the Islam they will not be real Muslims. Only Arabs can be real belivers of it according to them.

If they had a opportunity, they would have got the Armenians Islamized too undoubtedly. At least, Ottomans didn’t try this.

You might be right, that's their aim .... but let me REMIND you that Armenians and Armenia were Occupied by Arabs long before Turks, yet Armenians survived through some 400 years of Arab Islamic rule. I'm not saying that Arabs were nice to Armenians... But whoever refuse to convert to Islam, was to pay a Heavy "Djezia" some sort of Tax too keep their Christianity, and They Did Pay .....

[maral_m79]

... So how would you expect us to deport Arabs actually where they were allied with English

So now in your own words, you proved that

(1)the Armeians DID NOT ALLY WITH ANY ONE ... or else you wouldn't be able to deport them .

... We had no such power over Arabs.....

But you had POWER over Armenians, right ?!

(2) Armenians were not a threat to the Ottoman Empire, for Turks had ALL THE Power over them .

[maral_m79]

it's not about ethics... It's about capability. Do children, kids, women, pregnant women, and the old have the capability to form gangs? The answer is obvious. There was no need to deport and kill them.

Thank you tongue, that's exactely what I meant...Capability.


And

I am saying leaving ethics to side.

Why leave ethics aside ?!

[crazyt]

Hey Hey my nickname is crazy T I'm tryin to be a good MC.

This is first post to boast it sounds like you'll got Turks to roast.

I am of Turkish descent I recognise that perhaps a million Armenians were killed back in the day so please dont bite my head off. I'm actually a friend a neutral (haha he is a Turk don't listen to him if he tells you otherwise)

Anyways I would like to know from Armenians if the dreaded day came and Turkey finally bit the bullet and admitted Genocide how would Armenia go about claim land off Turkey?

Likewise how would Armenia claim any money off Turkey?

[elendil]

So now in your own words, you proved that

(1)the Armeians DID NOT ALLY WITH ANY ONE ... or else you wouldn't be able to deport them .

Maral, Russia retreated from Turkish lands that was when Armenians were left alone by their allies. That is why we could deport them....

Why leave ethics aside ?!

Since state policies and military tactics are based on pragmatic standart of thinking....

it's not about ethics... It's about capability. Do children, kids, women, pregnant women, and the old have the capability to form gangs? The answer is obvious. There was no need to deport and kill them.

Capability? I think I explained the short term strategy view of the issue and the long termed one. A child will always hate the killer of his father regardless of the past.So 5 years later you will find strong resistance pockets in the areas you rule over....

[Tongue]

Why leave ethics aside ?!

Since state policies and military tactics are based on pragmatic standart of thinking....

And genocide happens when ethics are left aside and state policies approve to deport an entire ethnic population to their death!

[Tongue]

Capability? I think I explained the short term strategy view of the issue and the long termed one. A child will always hate the killer of his father regardless of the past.So 5 years later you will find strong resistance pockets in the areas you rule over....

Right... so lets kill them all.

What is genocide again?