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Can Turkey Learn Tolerance?

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  • Re: Can Turkey Learn Tolerance?


    The hand was never added to the sculpture


    Turkey-Armenia friendship symbol being demolished

    26 April 2011 Last updated at 14:29 GMT

    The demolition of a huge Turkish statue devoted to reconciliation with Armenia has begun, months after the prime minister described it as a "freak".

    The 30m-high statue - depicting two human figures facing each other - was erected on a mountain in the Turkish city of Kars, near the Armenian border.

    Local authorities commissioned it several years ago to symbolise an end to decades of enmity and suspicion.

    Artists had tried to save the statue, which could take 10 days to dismantle.

    The company carrying out the demolition has already cut down one of the figures using a crane, witnesses said.

    Rapprochement stalled

    The work, called the Statue of Humanity, was the creation of well-known Turkish artist Mehmet Aksoy.

    When finished, it would have had one figure extending a hand to the other.

    "I am really sorry, sorry on behalf of Turkey," Anatolia news agency quoted the sculptor as saying. "They can demolish it, we will re-make it."

    It was commissioned as a gesture of reconciliation, as Turkey and Armenia began attempts to repair relations after a century of hostility.

    But that process stalled last year and there were a number of objections to the monument.

    On a visit to Kars in January Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan reportedly described the monument as a "freak", and an affront to a nearby 11th Century shrine.

    Critics say Mr Erdogan may have aimed his remarks at nationalists, who are strong in this part of Turkey, ahead of June's parliamentary elections.

    Kars once had a large Armenian community, which was annihilated in 1915 as part of mass killings which Armenians and many historians call a genocide.

    Turkey rejects the term and says atrocities were committed on both sides in World War I.

    In 2009 the two countries agreed to normalise relations and, in that spirit, the former mayor of Kars commissioned the sculpture.

    Link

    Comment


    • Re: Can Turkey Learn Tolerance?

      Turkey and Arrmenia will never normalise relations, unless Turkey will accept the genocide and Azerbaijan will stop to buy political decisions in Ankara by lucrativ business options for ruling elit in this country.

      Comment


      • Re: Can Turkey Learn Tolerance?

        Turkey is not ready today. They do not know all the damage selfinflicted, wich they suufer by deneing armenian genocide. The process will be long and painfull, but they will found the truth.

        Comment


        • Re: Can Turkey Learn Tolerance?

          Originally posted by Alexandros View Post

          The hand was never added to the sculpture


          Turkey-Armenia friendship symbol being demolished

          Link
          Friendship?
          What friendship?

          Turkey has been blockading Armenia for 10-15 years or more.

          Why ?
          To bring it to its knees.
          Had been negotiating, while blockading.

          We haven't mentioned anything about "historic" ( but very current ) issues yet.

          Anybody describing the situation as if it will about to lead to friendship needs a reality check.

          P.S. -- It was as grotesque looking (pile of blocks) as the Armenian-Turkish "friendship".
          Politics is not about the pursuit of morality nor what's right or wrong
          Its about self interest at personal and national level often at odds with the above.
          Great politicians pursue the National interest and small politicians personal interests

          Comment


          • Re: Can Turkey Learn Tolerance?

            http://www.hetq.am/eng/news/765/


            Istanbul Diary: Turkish Analyst "Back Pedals" on Genocide

            23:53, April 28, 2011

            "You are of course aware that genocides can also be perpetrated by individuals and not by governments."

            This was the remark made by Mensur Akgun, Director of the Global Political Trends Center (GPOT) in Istanbul where I had a chance to meet and talk with him during my stay here.

            I had posed the following question, to Mensur Akgun.

            Who should resolve the Armenian Genocide issue –political leaders or historians?

            “The issue isn’t connected to historians. The Turkish side has numerous documents attesting to the fact that there was no premeditation. The Armenian side has just as many documents to the contrary. But if the historians can reach some general consensus, their conclusions can be presented to the politicians. Then, there is a good chance that the matter will go to arbitration. If the Genocide was carried out by specific individuals in specific location in Turkey, the Turks would be obliged to recognize it. But, of course, there would be political, juridical and historical elements involved. You are of course aware that genocides can also be perpetrated by individuals and not by governments. Each side could learn much from assembling historians, the development of political agreement and from the experience obtained in resolving that issue. By the way, even if we don’t achieve all this, and just are able to normalize relations, then no one will talk about the Genocide. It’s more likely that Turks and Armenians would commemorate April 24 together. Many people commemorate April 24 as a day of calamity and not genocide. Of course, there will be certain Armenians and Turks not content with this but this displeasure won’t make a difference. We must act so that this issue is no longer up for political discussion. Naturally, it can continue to be a matter for personal debate. Many of you have suffered, I have no doubts.”

            The analyst says that the issue of rapprochement between Ankara and Yerevan periodically pops up on the official radar as an agenda item, but that Turkey doesn’t view it as a primary concern.

            In contrast, Mr. Akgun argues that Armenia has two large problems with Turkey and Azerbaijan.

            “Since there is hope for normalization, you discuss that issue at length. You always refer to history, which arises from the interests of your political circles, because otherwise you’d start to talk about other issues; for example corruption.

            Mr. Akgun added that Turkey has many other problems besides this and points to the militarization of the country and the Kurdish issue.

            Thus, he says that it is only logical that Turkey is more often discussed in Armenia than Armenia is in Turkey.

            A similar view is expressed by Sabiha Gundogar, Foreign Affairs Program Officer at the TESEV (Turkish Economic and Social Studies Foundation).

            “It is my impression that they want immediate improvement in relations in Armenia and that the border open tomorrow. They want recognition of the Genocide within one year. But the process in Turkey is a gradual one. The Armenian issue was never at the top of the list in Turkey and will never be.”

            Mr. Akgun told me that Turkey is developing and becoming more self-confident. He said that Turkey would not benefit in a tangible way from opening the border with Armenia.

            “Sure, tourists would come and go but there isn’t much trade going on. Also, sadly, you don’t have the natural resources like Azerbaijan. We can’t make the same investments in Armenia to get oil or gas. We have invested billions in Azerbaijan. Perhaps we could purchase a few refrigeration units and a handful of “Beko” stores in Yerevan, but not more. Your population is tiny and Armenia isn’t developed economically. We see no long-term economic potential in Armenia. There is no comparison with Azerbaijan. In addition, we regard the Azerbaijanis as brothers. That’s another story. If you had oil, then I can assure you that would have been a good reason to normalize relations.”

            When I asked Aypars Gorgulu, anther analyst who works for Gundogar, is Armenia interests Turkey from an economic standpoint, he replied - “not really”.

            “Turkey’s eastern regions aren’t that developed. Armenia is the same. Thus, the opening of the border would have limited economic repercussions. That’s not to say that Armenia isn’t interesting. I think that Turkey’s eastern districts would benefit somewhat from an open border. Turkey is heavily dependent on Georgia in many ways; the transit gas and oil pipelines. This makes Armenia an isolated island. An opening of the borders would create transit possibilities because even though the parties seek to isolate Armenia and focus on Georgia, the latter isn’t all that stable a country. We saw that with the war with Russia. Thus, we have to explore alternative paths. Armenia could greatly benefit from an opening of the border.
            Politics is not about the pursuit of morality nor what's right or wrong
            Its about self interest at personal and national level often at odds with the above.
            Great politicians pursue the National interest and small politicians personal interests

            Comment


            • Re: Can Turkey Learn Tolerance?

              New Survey Finds “Turks Don’t Like Anybody”

              A new survey conducted in Turkey by SETA demonstrated that 74% of Turks don’t like the Armenians, 71% dislike Israel and the xxxs, 69% dislike the Greeks, 64% dislike Americans, 54% the Europeans and Russians and the list goes on. The only favored group seems to be the Azerbaijan’s Turks. These figures reflect on how the public opinion has been shaped during the nine year rule of the AKP government, and PM Erdogan’s hostile rhetoric.

              Prominent Turkish journalist Ertugrul Ozkok of Hurriyet, wrote in his column that these findings, and the hostility and sometimes the violence towards ‘all others’ are both astonishing and alarming, and added that “it is time to gather the best sociologists and psychologists in the country and ask the question, ‘Why don’t we (Turks) like anybody?’”

              Yavuz Bulent Bakiler of the pro-AKP daily Turkiye responded to Ozkok’s article by justifying the negative sentiments towards all foreign peoples. He asked, “How can we love the xxxs? Their biblical ideal is even depicted on their flag. They want to build the ‘Great Israel’ that will cover all the area between Euphrates and Nile. The xxxs are oppressing our brethren in Palestine… How can our nation love the xxxs?”

              Bakiler also asked, “Which sensible Turk could trust America’s friendship?” and asserted that had America wanted, with one word to (Kurdish) Talabani and Barzani, it could have ended their savagery. “How can we love Americans?” he asked. He also criticized Europeans for supporting the PKK terror, for stirring up the Alevi issue in Turkey and wrote, “They are the ones that are hostile towards Turks”.
              Source: Hurriyet, Turkiye (Turkey), May 6 and 8, 2011

              Comment


              • Re: Can Turkey Learn Tolerance?

                Originally posted by Alexandros View Post

                The hand was never added to the sculpture


                Turkey-Armenia friendship symbol being demolished

                Link
                That is the only reason why I hate this xxxxing nation, because they are rassist, egoist and faschist ...
                Turks are very proud until now, that they brutal slaughtered at 1915-17 almost 3 000 000 christians in the otoman empire.

                Comment


                • Re: Can Turkey Learn Tolerance?

                  Originally posted by HermanGerman View Post
                  New Survey Finds “Turks Don’t Like Anybody”

                  A new survey conducted in Turkey by SETA demonstrated that 74% of Turks don’t like the Armenians, 71% dislike Israel and the xxxs, 69% dislike the Greeks, 64% dislike Americans, 54% the Europeans and Russians and the list goes on. The only favored group seems to be the Azerbaijan’s Turks. These figures reflect on how the public opinion has been shaped during the nine year rule of the AKP government, and PM Erdogan’s hostile rhetoric.

                  Prominent Turkish journalist Ertugrul Ozkok of Hurriyet, wrote in his column that these findings, and the hostility and sometimes the violence towards ‘all others’ are both astonishing and alarming, and added that “it is time to gather the best sociologists and psychologists in the country and ask the question, ‘Why don’t we (Turks) like anybody?’”

                  Yavuz Bulent Bakiler of the pro-AKP daily Turkiye responded to Ozkok’s article by justifying the negative sentiments towards all foreign peoples. He asked, “How can we love the xxxs? Their biblical ideal is even depicted on their flag. They want to build the ‘Great Israel’ that will cover all the area between Euphrates and Nile. The xxxs are oppressing our brethren in Palestine… How can our nation love the xxxs?”

                  Bakiler also asked, “Which sensible Turk could trust America’s friendship?” and asserted that had America wanted, with one word to (Kurdish) Talabani and Barzani, it could have ended their savagery. “How can we love Americans?” he asked. He also criticized Europeans for supporting the PKK terror, for stirring up the Alevi issue in Turkey and wrote, “They are the ones that are hostile towards Turks”.
                  Source: Hurriyet, Turkiye (Turkey), May 6 and 8, 2011
                  Yap, that is very simple: turks dont like anyone becaous noone (not without ground) likes them. They should ask fierst "why no one likes us?" not "why we do not like anyone"
                  Death or Freedom!

                  Comment


                  • Re: Can Turkey Learn Tolerance?

                    Netherlands grants asylum to ex-judge charged in Turkey

                    20 May 2011 Last updated at 16:18 GMT

                    A former Turkish judge who says he was prosecuted for his views on the fate of Armenians and Kurds has been granted asylum in the Netherlands.

                    Cagatay Cetin, who is of Armenian-Kurdish descent, claimed asylum after arriving in the country in January last year.

                    Charges against him in Turkey include forging documents and false accusation.

                    The Dutch government refused to say why Cetin had been granted asylum, adding it did not comment on individual cases.

                    Turkey has prosecuted individuals who describe the mass killing of Armenians in the early 20th Century as genocide.

                    Mr Cetin says he did "insult Turkish identity" - a criminal offence according to Article 301 of the country's penal code - by saying a genocide of Armenians had happened, his lawyer in the Netherlands, Marq Wijngaarden, told BBC News Online.

                    Mr Wijngaarden said his client had been accused under Article 301.

                    "He was interrogated on this accusation by a Dutch court, at the request of the Turkish prosecutor," he added.

                    Mr Cetin admits he left Turkey under a false passport, his lawyer said, but insists he did not forge documents or make false accusations.

                    Link

                    Comment


                    • Re: Can Turkey Learn Tolerance?

                      http://hayernaysor.am/1305709807


                      Kurdish architect:“Turkey is Turkifying Ani and is making insincere pledges for restoration”

                      The group of Armenian and Turkish journalists in Kars met with architect, Head of the Center for Research on Caucasian Cultures, Ali Ihsan Alenak.


                      As NEWS.am’s correspondent in Kars reported, the Kurdish architect touched upon the lack of the words “Armenian” and “Armenia” in front of churches and historical buildings in the Armenian Ani and mentioned that that is due to politics.
                      “The Turkish authorities don’t write “Armenian” and “Armenia” on purpose and it is due to Turkey’s policy on Armenia. Turkey has adopted the working style of leaving Armenia aside as part of its policy against Armenia and it all began when Turkey took the course of denial after the events of 1915.

                      I think the issue of writing the names in front of Armenian cultural values in Ani can be solved through the normalization of Armenian-Turkish relations. However, that will not happen because in the past two years, Turkey has been trying to politicize Ani with non-scientific grounds and calling it Ane (moment, blink in Turkish). With this, the government is leading a Turkification policy that spreads misinformation and doesn’t contribute to peace between nations. By saying Ani, the whole world understands an Armenian city. But the Turkish Ministry of Culture is trying to change it to Ane to not recall the Armenian term,” said Ali Ihsan, underlining that the main reason is the lack of recognition of the great catastrophe of 1915.

                      One of the journalists recalled that several European and American programs envisage the restoration of some historical monuments of Ani. In response, the Kurdish architect stressed that he doesn’t believe that the Turks are sincere when they make pledges to restore those monuments.

                      “That is all simply the result of pressure on Turkey and the latter was forced to accept. Ani is part of the heritage of Caucasian nations and, in addition to Armenian monuments and values, we must also remember the values of other nations,” underlined the Kurdish architect.
                      Politics is not about the pursuit of morality nor what's right or wrong
                      Its about self interest at personal and national level often at odds with the above.
                      Great politicians pursue the National interest and small politicians personal interests

                      Comment

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