Kurdistan!

[1.5 million]

turkey doesnt wantand wont let a kurdistan near its borders.

Yes we all already know this.

if it happends to established i think this time kurds fight between themselves in their country.

Would this provide you pleasure?

because kurds dont have a capabilty of gowerning.not in the past and not in the future...

I see that we are not a racist are we? Actually if you look at how the Turks have totally mismanaged governing in the past - ie Ottoman Empire - where they ended up deliberatly killing a good portion of their own people after haveing let much of the rest of the EMpire collapse and split apart - but not before slughtering many of the people in those outlying areas as well - I think if one looks at this record one could eaily conclude that the Turks have not shown any capability to govern - but indeed quite the opposite.

[TurQ]

THis is action/reaction thing.

Terkey had sensitive approach to this area in past. After the Seyh Said revolt and the British support to this revolt shaped the Turkish state policy for Kurds. But this is past we cant always be in 1925. There is no danger for seperatism which is supported by KUrds. Even the very staunch Kurdish nationalists do not believe an independent Kurdish state in Turkey. They are just being reactionary.

At this point who is right or wrong is not important, the important thing is to have stabilty in the region. Majority of the Kurds in Turkey pretty much aware whats going on in middleast they are not blind for independence, and they dont have any desire to do so.

As far as repression thats an other issue. It is not etnical. If it were we wouldnt have Kurds in our parliment, and they are 30% of our parliment. If Turkey wants to be a strong player in Mid east it has to have strong relations with Kurds. Kurds see Turkey as big brother, Kurds can only unite under Turkey, they cant get along with each other(The 16th century Kurdish scholar Idris-i Bitlisi puts it very well). By rationale politics and strategy we can be the significant player in mideast by Kurds and a significant player in balkans by Albanians.

The Kurdish issue is not that simple to understand. For example let me give you one name "Faik Bulut". He is Kurdish, he is a communist anarshist and fevrent supporter of PKK. But this guy also have close relations with some certain leftist inclined pro-coupist generals(like Kemal Yavuz). He was portrayed as *Patriot* eventhough he had been sentenced by state because of his PKK links. s you see in reality this is not purely ethnical, there is something different going on there. Kurds and Turks have no problem in terms of their ethnicity.

Why are you people wasting your time to talk to this idiot seriously?

On a more serious note: TurQ - do see any hope for "stability" in this region regardless of what policy is pursued? And - considering that the Kurdish people have been subject to quite a bit of repression at the hands of the Iraqi gov't (Baathists) in the past - and really without exerting themselves would/will be marginalized in the future - how can you deny them their desire for autonomy or more - think about it for a bit. And if Turkey had respected its Kurds all these years instead of suppressing and killing and (economically) ignoring and lieing to them all of these years would the issue of Kurdish seperatism from Turkey be such a worry today? As Kemalism made being a "Kurd" incompatable with being a "Turk" and because it attempted to force this identity on people who overall were willing to accept being Turkish but not by giving up being Kurdish - who is really to blame for the problems here? ANd don't the Kurds warrent some consideration for past (and ongoing) abuses against them. If you answer me in the typical Turkish denial and shifting blame I will know to never respect your opinions again.

[imported_Hellektor]

Replying an amoeba in a tone worthy of an amoeba

the downfall of Turkey will be when the downfall of USA happens.

That's what I'm talking about baby!
I can't believe it. For the first time a brain-damaged pan-turkist has uttered a true sentence!

The USA will fall. It's just a paper tiger. It's completely dependent on oil.
Once there's no more oil, the Americans will starve, because they cannot go and buy bread on foot, they have to go by car
And all the phallic symbols of the US, the tanks, fighter planes, aircraft carriers, etc. will be just a tas de ferraille.

Then the prophesy of Hellektor will come true and the Turkish phallus will slide out of the immoral, Freemason/Zionist Anglo-Saxon muzzle and then we will kick your hairless Tatar butts to Mongolia, the hell you come from and the hell you phukking belong.

[Kharpert]

I disagree. There is no correlation.

The end of the age of oil will be a crippling blow for every single nation on Earth. It's not as if the United States is the only importer of oil. The United States not only is the strongest military power in today's world, but is also undergoing research for alternative fuel sources (for which I am a huge proponent). The downfall of the United States from its status of superpower will not be sudden, it will be very gradual. As of now, the first stage of that downfall is its woefully incompetent leadership.

The superpower status will simply slowly shift to another country, and the United States will become less important. China's a good runner up, though don't rule out India. They already have nuclear weapons, after all. This shift of power will bring up all sorts of new diplomatic relationships that will simply rearrange all nations in an unpredictable way. The United States' slide into obscurity will not affect all nations.

[1.5 million]

TurQ - there is a big difference between acceptance of Kurds in metropolitian areas and such - where they are no different then any other Turk - then acceptance of those who are living in the East - who might just want to practice their own rituals, sing their own songs, use their own language and such. You cannot deny that this sort of repression has occured - and though much has changed - only recently - there are still plenty of elements of it. I also find it somewhat amusing that the same excuse is used - look we have a few Kurds in our Parliment (and BTW I know that Ozgul sp?) former Turkish Pres was Kurdish BTW...the real question is - did he know?) - yeah how could there be repression of Kurds when you have had/have Kurds in the government - much like how could the Ottomans have massacred Armenians when there were/had been Armenain in Parliment and in other positions - etc - well true and true and true - all true - yes somehow it did happen eh? Well of course this excuse is much too simplisitic - it ignores historical chages - as if something that is true at one moment or in the past can be used to assess current or different situation (like Turks blaming Armenian revolutionaries...when suich thing was not much occuring for deacde or more etc and current Turks continue to blame PKK - when evidenc is that it is Turkish military instigating etc) - anyway it also may prove just how meaningless the Turkish parliment really is - think about that.

[TurQ]

Former President Turgut Ozal was half Kurdish. He openly stated it and he openly invited HEP members(now DEHAP) the Kurdish party and said "OK lets talk about Federation", the guys are shocked and didnt know what to say and left the meeting. Turgut Ozal showed them that they are jsut reactionary, if there is nothing to react they are just finished. That Kurdish party has 5% votes where as Turkey has 18% or so Kurds. This 5% also includes some extreme left Turkish votes too. And I dont think 30% is jsut a few in a parliment.

If TUrkish parliment had no meaning they wouldnt reject US troops be installed in Turkey for IRaq. But this is not our topic.

TurQ - there is a big difference between acceptance of Kurds in metropolitian areas and such - where they are no different then any other Turk - then acceptance of those who are living in the East - who might just want to practice their own rituals, sing their own songs, use their own language and such. You cannot deny that this sort of repression has occured - and though much has changed - only recently - there are still plenty of elements of it. I also find it somewhat amusing that the same excuse is used - look we have a few Kurds in our Parliment (and BTW I know that Ozgul sp?) former Turkish Pres was Kurdish BTW...the real question is - did he know?) - yeah how could there be repression of Kurds when you have had/have Kurds in the government - much like how could the Ottomans have massacred Armenians when there were/had been Armenain in Parliment and in other positions - etc - well true and true and true - all true - yes somehow it did happen eh? Well of course this excuse is much too simplisitic - it ignores historical chages - as if something that is true at one moment or in the past can be used to assess current or different situation (like Turks blaming Armenian revolutionaries...when suich thing was not much occuring for deacde or more etc and current Turks continue to blame PKK - when evidenc is that it is Turkish military instigating etc) - anyway it also may prove just how meaningless the Turkish parliment really is - think about that.

[1.5 million]

If TUrkish parliment had no meaning they wouldnt reject US troops be installed in Turkey for IRaq. But this is not our topic.

Yeah a rare showing of Democracy in action in Turkey eh? ANd quite resented by the US.....

[1.5 million]

BTW I don't at all disagree with the notion that most all Kurds are happy to be Turkish citizens and to do their thing in Turkey - i understand this...however this does not negate the fact that Turkey has supressed the Kurds culturally and has done everything to ignore the SOutheast region economically through the years and done everything to push the Kurds of that region into having to look toward getting some protection (ie PKK)...when a big bully is pushin you around who do you go to to fight back - not some wimp - but a baddass - and that is what Turkey has forced them into. I will never argue that PKK is anything but a bunch of thuggish nutjobs...but Turkey made sure it was that way.

[kemal1915]

.... ...has done everything to ignore the SOutheast region economically through the years ........

i think for this part u have to think again.im not sying this region is not ignored in some ways.but there are some regions like blacksea region.here people are poor and their living standart is too low too.but they are not fighting againts its state and destroying all things the state done or killing the officials.while pkk wanted to infiltrate to this region with the same way it did in south east,all citiziens here get their guns and said that they are ready to fight against pkk.i think not only economic problems or culturel problems also some people who are gaining smthng from the events there,are manuplating these regions people.most of the people are there destructive not creative..

[1.5 million]

i think for this part u have to think again.im not sying this region is not ignored in some ways.but there are some regions like blacksea region.here people are poor and their living standart is too low too.but they are not fighting againts its state and destroying all things the state done or killing the officials.while pkk wanted to infiltrate to this region with the same way it did in south east,all citiziens here get their guns and said that they are ready to fight against pkk.i think not only economic problems or culturel problems also some people who are gaining smthng from the events there,are manuplating these regions people.most of the people are there destructive not creative..

You are very mistaken that the Black Sea region is a poor region in Turkey - it is very much the opposite - quite vibrant economically and it has many (social) advantages - and there are very few Kurds there BTW (though many Armenains and Georgians (and other ethnicities) who conviently call (and even think) of themselves as Turks and whom other Turks think of as well - meanwhile they do as they like unmolested...)