Greek Genocide of Asia Minor

[ScythianVizier]

Ixtanbul - your ignorance and utter insensitivity is beyond any words I have to describe. FYI there were Armenian Byzantine Emporers and Armenians have lived in Constantinople before any Turk crossed East of the Vogal. I also have to demand your apology as you have directly insulted my family who have lived in Constatinople/Istanbul and like a great many Armenians worked and suffered to make that city what it became and who ultimatly paid the price for being Armenian - and for no other reason - and who came to be living amongst a sea of hostile racist nationalsit Turks such as yourself. It is because of Turks like you that our family and our people are denied their proper legacy and were denied their lives and livelyhoods. It is because of sick Turks like you that we have suffered and lost all. You have no place in this forum and I feel that I must request that you be banned fromt here. I will not at all be sorry to see the likes of you gone from here.

The Armenian contribution to the East Roman Empire is evident and well accepted in Turkey. However, it should be noted that the Roman (and the European) encounter with the Turks goes back to as early as rise of the Huns. The East Roman encounter on the other hand, dates back the 6th Century as Turks from Transaxonia became important ally (for East Romans) against the Persians.

[ScythianVizier]

Armenia has offered to withdraw from these lands with Azeri assurances that it will not attack NK - Azerbiajan has not been willing to be peaceful or to recognize the very legal and defacto independence of Karabagh - from USSR (it was never part of the nation of Azerbiajan BTW). Considering that Azerbaijan was the aggressor in this conflict and continied to press the aggression - against (Armenian) civilians - driving them from their homes (and being the first to do so) - and shelling them from vantage postions in the heights surrounding NK (the territory that Armenia now holds) - it is both highly hypocritical that you toss acusations against Armenia in this conflict and it is also highly amusing that you would think that Armenia would ceede this lands without Azeri assurances for peace. No instead the Alieves and others in Azerbaijan do nothing but increase the warmongering and hateful rhetoric - meanwhile the Armenain side has taken entirely resonable stances. So stuff it already.

Most resources suggest that more than 800,000 people, and mostly ethnic Azerbaijanis were driven from the occupied lands (by Armenians), and I dont see any logical reasoning that could justify such actions, just like you do not in the case of late Ottoman Policies determined by CUP.

In fact, in early 1800s, one branch of my relatives were subjected to the same policies applied by the Russians and their allies. They now live in Western Turkey, however they still recall what was done to the family when the issue is discussed.

[1.5 million]

I have never disputed that there are significant numbers of Azeris displaced. However it is clear both that the Azeri government and army began (and sustained) this aggression against NG - thei soverign neigbor in every legal sense - and that they were first to drive out (and slaughter) Armenians. Azeris who later fled did so primarily due to rumours and fears spread by their own people and by occuping (and retreating) Azeri forces. It is highly regrettable that this war has produced such essentially equivalant human tragedy on both sides - however the blame lies primarily with the Azeri side - and this is most clear. Additionally it is incorrect to consider - in any sense - NK to be occupied land - it is liberorated from Azeri aggresors who invaded and were harming the people there. The Azeri land taken by Armenia - the highlands and corridor sourounding NK and connecting it with Armenia was a neceassary action of the war - as Azeri forces continued to shell and launch Grad rockets against NK Armenian civilians from these hieghts. Armenian has offered these lands back beginning very shortly after the war asking only for assurances that NK will not be attacked. Azerbaijan has failed to provide these assurances and in fact has continued with war rhetoric and racial slurs and such. Thus this entire shameful mess its the fault of Azerbaijan - including the continued fact of refugees who are artifiically kept in horrible conditions by the Azeri govt to manipulate sympathy and fan hate. IF there were peace - those from the Azeri territores could go home - the rest are the responsibility of Azerbaijan to care for - just as Armenia has done so with the refugies from Baku and Sumgait and from the rest of Azerbaijan from which they were expelled - after pogroms against them - even prior to the Azeri invasion of NK. SO stuff it already.

[TurQ]

Vezir

He just wants everything allinged with what he understands from the books he read. WHen he is challenged he uses insults.

If he were for the human tragedy side of these events he would have commented on Azeri refugees. There is only one scenarios, Barbaric Turkish actions. And may be some unorganized, crazyed Armenian youth might have killed Turks thats it..

They do know very well that this goes way back from 1988. Abut mistreatment of Armenians, they might want to comment also on the fate of Azeris of Yerevan, or the fate Azeris who live between Azerbeyjan and Nahjivan.

EDIT: I think above post done is posted simultanously. Indeed 1.5M acknowledges the plight of Azeris. I withdraw my above accusations to a degree. Still nobody disputed the allegations about Azeris killing Azeri civilians to defame Armenians. And somehow
Turks would be the most coward nation on earth every time they *escape* when they hear some rumors.

Most resources suggest that more than 800,000 people, and mostly ethnic Azerbaijanis were driven from the occupied lands (by Armenians), and I dont see any logical reasoning that could justify such actions, just like you do not in the case of late Ottoman Policies determined by CUP.

In fact, in early 1800s, one branch of my relatives were subjected to the same policies applied by the Russians and their allies. They now live in Western Turkey, however they still recall what was done to the family when the issue is discussed.

[TurQ]

http://www.refugeesinternational.org/content/article/detail/826/

I do feel equally sorry for both Azeri and Armenian refugees of war.

Yeah well I asked your source for the 800,000 number too, the UN one... can you provide me with that?

And what you said above still doesn't say how you feel about the fact that there are 400,000 Armenian refugees that were kicked out of their homes... do you have anything to say about this?

I don't agree that the war was premeditated as you seem to have asserted (it began in 1905 and 1918). This is total nonsense. Remember Artsakh and Naghigevan were Stalins gifts if you will to a new nation called "Azerbaijan", and were used as political pieces in driving a wedge between Armenia and Azerbaijan - which it has...

[1.5 million]

Vezir

IT is a fallacy that Armenian aspirations for indepence came after Azeri mistreatment. They know it very well that Armenian aspirations did exist strongly before 1988.
So for him it is, Azeris behaved them bad, so inorder to defend their rights they had to liberate Karabag. So simple...

Correct: Aspiraions for independence from the Soviet Union. Meanwhile Azerbaijan feels the need to dominate and control and massacre its neigbors. Yes it is quite simple ...and obvious. As it is quite simple to see your highly biased and hateful position no matter how you attempt to sugar coat it.

So you claim this "conflict" goes back to last century - it is only Azeris getting even for past mistreatment eh? Well Ghengis Khan...well Osman...what do you say to that?

[Kharpert]

It's impossible for this conflict to date back to the 19th century because an independent Azerbaijan didn't even exist until 1918.

[Gavur]

Nagorno Karabakh. Baku Threatens with Hostilities

Do you suggest that it will not exist in the future?

24.01.2006 16:51

YEREVAN (YERKIR) - “If the talks over the Karabakh issues are fruitless, Azerbaijan will do its best to restore the territorial integrity of the country,” Azerbaijani Defense Minister Safar Abiyev stated upon completion of the negotiations with Russia’s Vice Premier, Defense Minister Sergey Ivanov.

“Azerbaijan takes all the essential measures for the restoration of its territorial integrity including Nagorno Karabakh. Presently negotiations are being held. If they are fruitless Azerbaijan will do its best to return its territories. We referred the situation in the Caucasus and the seizure of Azeri land by Armenia.

We also expressed concern over the transportation of the Russian military equipment from Georgia to Armenia,” Abiyev said noting that the military and technical cooperation between the Azerbaijan and Russia was as well discussed. “We attach great importance to the cooperation with Russia. It reached high level in all the fields,” he stated, ITAR-TASS reported.



G-Just give us the excuse to take it all back!

[phantom]

Vezir

IT is a fallacy that Armenian aspirations for indepence came after Azeri mistreatment. They know it very well that Armenian aspirations did exist strongly before 1988.
So for him it is, Azeris behaved them bad, so inorder to defend their rights they had to liberate Karabag. So simple...

Let's assume arguendo that you are correct. What difference would that make? The people of Karabagh voted for independence, just like the people of Azerbaijan voted for independence from the USSR, and they did it lawfully and in the same way that all of the republics, including Azerbaijan, handled it. What's good for the goose is good for the gander, isn't it? If a group of people want to live freely and independently from a government that has mistreated, oppressed, and intentionally reduced their numbers over a period of time, then why shouldn't they have that right? You can't tell us that Armenians have not been mistreated by Turks over the last few centuries. Given this history, why should they be forced to live under a Turkish yoke? Why should they always have to spill blood to gain an ounce of freedom? And when they spill that blood and win their freedom, why do they have to continue fighting a diplomatic war for decades to prove that they deserve that freedom? The Armenians of Karabagh won their freedom fair and square. Pogroms were caused by both sides (Khojaly by Armenians and Baku/Sumgait/etc. by Azeris, and refugees were created on both sides, but unlike during WWI, neither side exterminated the other. I think it is safe to argue, however, that had the Azeris won, they would have exterminated the Karabagh Armenians rather than let them leave unharmed. Their recent actions in Nakcivan support that horrifying scenario. Armenians, as usual, showed more restraint in their victory, except at Khojaly.

[Kharpert]

Well said, phantom.