ASALA:Was it really necessary?

[Kharpert]

TurQ:

There is no doubt that the Turkish Denial Machine is a huge impediment to the relationship between Turkey and Armenia. In fact, the economic benefit that both countries could potentially receive (though there may be little economic benefit at all) would eventually antagonize each other. Each dollar that enters the hands of the Turkish government, whether through taxes or trade, eventually will find itself partially funding the Turkish Denial Machine, which is completely against the agenda of the Republic of Armenia and the Armenian Diaspora.

As such, even if Armenia were to economically benefit through trade with Turkey, then it would be one step forward and two steps back; a larger national revenue, but a weaker stance in the face of historical revisionism. Armenia cannot hope to establish an economic relationship with a nation that is so antagonistic to their geopolitical stance. One cannot expect to "overcome the discrepancy" by allowing Turkey to spite the Armenian name and nation both historically and geopolitically, in exchange for a miniscule economic benefit.

I am not saying that a relationship between Turkey and Armenia is not possible, but I have always said that any such opportunity must be approached with absolute distrust; once the agendas of Armenia and Turkey change enough for their friendship to be mutually advantageous, then an alliance is possible. Until then, Armenia and Turkey will be pulling in opposite directions. Quite frankly, I will put my efforts mostly to making the Turkish agenda change, at least enough to dismantle the Turkish denial machine. On the other hand, I also hope to quell racism and other extreme, destructive ideologies both on the Turkish and Armenian sides in order for future opportunities to be pragmatically taken advantage of.

[Krunchy]

but a weaker stance in the face of historical revisionism

Whatever are you talking about?

[Kharpert]

It means that denial of the Armenian genocide is bad for Armenia! If Armenia backed down on its Genocide claims, don't you think it would destroy the Republic's and Diaspora's credibility?

[imported_Arev]

Kharpert young friend, I just looked at the poll stats, it seems like you are in bad company.

[Kharpert]

The poll question is extremely ambiguous and has little to do with my point.

[TurQ]

Harput-

I am talking about civil relations, not state to state relations at this moment.
In terms of trade TUrkey does not have much to gain, Armenia has a lot, but even this is not important, my main point is the relations will serve to stabilty in the region. The region has a potential to erupt. The dollars entering to Turkish government is nothing, the trade volume between TUrkey and Armenia is not high for Turkey. And at this moment majority of of the things are coming from TUrkey anyways from expensive means,am I wrong? I have seen photos from Armenia, I have seen the goods of the "Malatya Pazari". Refrigrators, TVs, washing machines etc are coming from TUrkey from GEorgia, and they are coming from 3rd parties. That money is already entering Turkish pocket, you may call. Economic relations are important just to serve for stabilty in the region thats why its important

Turkey does not see Armenia as threat Armenia can not be a Threat given the size and power. Turkish autorities are well aware of it. Turkey's main concern is stabilty in her neighbourhood. Turkey supports stabilty in Middle East, Caucusia and Balkans. Turkish military even initiated a military cooportaion with Greece to intervene problems in the Balkans togather. I dont think Turkish stance would be the different for Armenia.
Obviously there is barrier of mistrust. We should find ways to get over it first.

TurQ:

There is no doubt that the Turkish Denial Machine is a huge impediment to the relationship between Turkey and Armenia. In fact, the economic benefit that both countries could potentially receive (though there may be little economic benefit at all) would eventually antagonize each other. Each dollar that enters the hands of the Turkish government, whether through taxes or trade, eventually will find itself partially funding the Turkish Denial Machine, which is completely against the agenda of the Republic of Armenia and the Armenian Diaspora.

As such, even if Armenia were to economically benefit through trade with Turkey, then it would be one step forward and two steps back; a larger national revenue, but a weaker stance in the face of historical revisionism. Armenia cannot hope to establish an economic relationship with a nation that is so antagonistic to their geopolitical stance. One cannot expect to "overcome the discrepancy" by allowing Turkey to spite the Armenian name and nation both historically and geopolitically, in exchange for a miniscule economic benefit.

I am not saying that a relationship between Turkey and Armenia is not possible, but I have always said that any such opportunity must be approached with absolute distrust; once the agendas of Armenia and Turkey change enough for their friendship to be mutually advantageous, then an alliance is possible. Until then, Armenia and Turkey will be pulling in opposite directions. Quite frankly, I will put my efforts mostly to making the Turkish agenda change, at least enough to dismantle the Turkish denial machine. On the other hand, I also hope to quell racism and other extreme, destructive ideologies both on the Turkish and Armenian sides in order for future opportunities to be pragmatically taken advantage of.

[Kharpert]

TurQ:

The barrier of mistrust isn't a trivial issue. Considering the myriad manipulations and conflicts Turkey and Armenia have encountered over the course of 90 years is good reason for mistrust. If Turkey has no real use for Armenia or does not see it as a threat, it would give them leverage to exploit Armenia to their will.

Again, though, the Armenian agenda as of right now is instilling stability in Karabagh, which incidentally makes it stand at the opposite end of the Turkish agenda, since Turkey is either directly or indirectly supporting Azerbaijan in an effort to take it back. The philosophy of "the friend of my enemy is my enemy" isn't an absolute statement, but how can Armenia engage in economic relations with a nation that is supporting Armenia's enemy in an armed conflict? For primarily diplomatic reasons there needs to be a change in agenda before any sense can be made out of an alliance.

It's a popular idea among the diaspora to boycott Turkish goods. I'm not sure how effective the tactic is, but it exists.

[imported_Arev]

TurQ:

The barrier of mistrust isn't a trivial issue. Considering the myriad manipulations and conflicts Turkey and Armenia have encountered over the course of 90 years is good reason for mistrust. If Turkey has no real use for Armenia or does not see it as a threat, it would give them leverage to exploit Armenia to their will.

Again, though, the Armenian agenda as of right now is instilling stability in Karabagh, which incidentally makes it stand at the opposite end of the Turkish agenda, since Turkey is either directly or indirectly supporting Azerbaijan in an effort to take it back. The philosophy of "the friend of my enemy is my enemy" isn't an absolute statement, but how can Armenia engage in economic relations with a nation that is supporting Armenia's enemy in an armed conflict? For primarily diplomatic reasons there needs to be a change in agenda before any sense can be made out of an alliance.

It's a popular idea among the diaspora to boycott Turkish goods. I'm not sure how effective the tactic is, but it exists.

Very wise statement young friend

The Turkish government has no real use for Armenia, other than manipulation and exploitation. I addressed this issue witin my first or second post. This is the fundamental problem, the long term danger, we face with regards to Armeno-Turkish relations. The risks are far too great for us.

[TurQ]

I am not sure how diaspora boycott effects Turkish goods. Turkish exports are sold almost every city in US, and Turkish companies are not targeting Armenian market at all. But I know some Armenians in NYC who sell wholesale Turkish goods, actually Turkish groceis buy from these Armenian wholesalers. I think this boycott thing is to motivate diasporan community against Turks and Turkey. Economically it has no point but it gives the taste of struggle against Turkish state may be.
Having said that I know Armenian goriceries sell Turkish goods in their groceries in watertown,MA.

I also do know that Armenian mid-scale business owners in Lobenon come to Adana, Antep, Hatay for trade. I have already mentioned that lots of Turkish goods are sold in Armenia, and it is expensive because of the GEorgians.
This makes me think that even this boycott is not widespread.

TurQ:

........
It's a popular idea among the diaspora to boycott Turkish goods. I'm not sure how effective the tactic is, but it exists.

[Krunchy]

It means that denial of the Armenian genocide is bad for Armenia! If Armenia backed down on its Genocide claims, don't you think it would destroy the Republic's and Diaspora's credibility?

As was pointed out by another poster, you are found in the odd company of turks.

If you meant denial, why did you not say denial?

Why did you resort to the inappropriate, ridiculous and inaccurate term "historical revisionism"? Do you even know what you're talking about when you throw out these canned arguments?

You sidestepped my question by distorting the whole thing.